• Welcome to TalkWeather!
    We would love for you to become a part of our community.
    Take a moment to look around and join the discussion.
    CLICK HERE TO JOIN TALKWEATHER
Messages
470
Location
Missouri
So apparently Charles City had the fastest documented windspeeds of any tornado of all time lol. Amazing what people belie

View attachment 4189
Yeah, I get that reconstructing the pre-1970 ratings with the information that was available at the time was difficult, but the level of inconsistency is still kind of surprising.
Well apparently Charles City had the fastest windspeeds documented in any tornado ever, lol. Amazing that it's still considered F5 after all these years.

528.jpg
 
Last edited:
Messages
470
Location
Missouri
View attachment 3225


View attachment 3226



This picture of the Carney OK 2013 tornado reminds me of the 1999 Moore tornado given the size and radar presentation. This tornado was more underrated than Shawnee and Moore (2013)but, the vortices during its early stages we're almost certainly above 200 MPH. The horizontal vortex look as textbook I will ever see.

It had GTG shear over 200 MPH right when it was about to hit Carney
At 2:37 in this vid you can something a virtually identical horizontal vortex on Red Rock, man that thing was incredible and likely had an insane amount of violent potential.

 

buckeye05

Member
Messages
617
Location
Riverside, Ohio
So apparently Charles City had the fastest documented windspeeds of any tornado of all time lol. Amazing what people belie

View attachment 4189

Well apparently Charles City had the fastest windspeeds documented in any tornado ever, lol. Amazing that it's still considered F5 after all these years.

View attachment 4190
I’ve said this before, but estimating wind speed based on spiral markings is complete and utter pseudoscience. Unfortunately, Dr. Fujita used this method for some of his ratings, namely Goessel and Xenia. Both of those have undeserved reputations for being remarkably violent because of this. In reality, there wasn’t much that was really remarkable about them at all. Both would be rated EF4 today.

Oh and I know this is blasphemy, but I take Plainfield’s F5 rating with a healthy dose of skepticism. I mean come on it was based on CORN! Not removal of grass, topsoil, or any typical type of scouring that is known to be associated with violent tornadoes. I do not buy it.Yes, Fujita revolutionized the field, but people need to stop taking his old studies as gospel. Some of his methods and calls do not hold up to modern-day scrutiny.
 
Messages
470
Location
Missouri
I’ve said this before, but estimating wind speed based on spiral markings is complete and utter pseudoscience. Unfortunately, Dr. Fujita used this method for some of his ratings, namely Goessel and Xenia. Both of those have undeserved reputations for being remarkably violent because of this. In reality, there wasn’t much that was really remarkable about them at all. Both would be rated EF4 today.

Oh and I know this is blasphemy, but I take Plainfield’s F5 rating with a healthy dose of skepticism. I mean come on it was based on CORN! Not removal of grass, topsoil, or any typical type of scouring that is known to be associated with violent tornadoes. I do not buy it.Yes, Fujita revolutionized the field, but people need to stop taking his old studies as gospel. Some of his methods and calls do not hold up to modern-day scrutiny.
Out of curiosity, was spiral markings used as wind speed estimates once considered reliable, and only now since we have much better methods of measuring tornado intensity it looks foolish in retrospect? Fujita was also big on photogrammetry, correct? Has this also been proven to be pseudoscience?
Concerning Plainfield, I thought it did cause some ground scouring as well, not just rip up cornstalks, but I'd have to dig up damage pics of it again.
 

buckeye05

Member
Messages
617
Location
Riverside, Ohio
Out of curiosity, was spiral markings used as wind speed estimates once considered reliable, and only now since we have much better methods of measuring tornado intensity it looks foolish in retrospect? Fujita was also big on photogrammetry, correct? Has this also been proven to be pseudoscience?
Concerning Plainfield, I thought it did cause some ground scouring as well, not just rip up cornstalks, but I'd have to dig up damage pics of it again.
It’s not that modern surveying techniques have rendered use of spiral markings useless, it’s that it was useless from the very beginning. I am in no way a mathematician (quite the opposite), but it was based on the concept that one could somehow calculate wind speed based on shapes left on the ground. However, for reasons that are over my head conceptually, it turns out that this is impossible and always has been. It was considered legitimate at the time though if that’s what you’re asking.

Regarding Plainfield, yeah it supposedly removed some topsoil, but that was in a farm field. That makes it much less conclusive. Dirt in farm fields is not as packed down due to the fact they are plowed yearly, and the dirt doesn’t have a solid layer of vegetation over it. Ground scouring is only useful as contextual evidence of a violent tornado when it occurs in grassy areas where the soil isn’t already exposed to begin with.

Regarding photogrammetry, I’m not sure what the consensus is these days. I’ve never heard doubt cast upon it, but you don’t really hear much about it anymore either.
 
Last edited:
Messages
470
Location
Missouri
Finally found some damage pics from the Possum Trot-Sneed, AR tornado of 1929:

What's left of a home from Sneed on top, Possum Trot on bottom:

Sneed 1.png

Remains of a farmhouse:

Sneed 2.png

School and church:

Sneed 3.jpg

Mangled car thrown over 300 yards:

Sneed 4.png

Remains of the Pleasant Valley schoolhouse:
Sneed 5.jpg Sneed 7.jpg

Leveled homes in and around Sneed:

Sneed 8.jpg

Sneed 9.jpg

The community of Guion, AR was struck by a separate tornado an F4, that day. A view of Guion taken several days afterward when the Red Cross arrived.

Sneed 6.jpg
 
Last edited:

Peter Griffin

Member
Messages
63
Location
Newport, NC
Bertie County NC tornado officially rated EF3. That is a powerful tornado in general but especially one spawned from a tropical system.



Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
 

eric11

Member
Messages
46
Location
Shanghai,China
Special Affiliations
  1. SKYWARN® Volunteer
  2. ARRL Member
Some other damage pics from the Harper KS F4 tornado.
7c4c3105e395a7d9.png
This car may have been thrown for 750 yards
5422d8210e6526fc.png
some dismembered car body parts
be9aeec65f49442.png
debarked tree
-4bf6a316e3e7c729.png
 
Last edited:

eric11

Member
Messages
46
Location
Shanghai,China
Special Affiliations
  1. SKYWARN® Volunteer
  2. ARRL Member
The Seward NE F4 occurred on 6/13/2001 did some really horrible car damage.
These cars were hurled more than 300 metres from where they were parked, most had their engines torn out or debris impaled,some of them left unrecognizable.Tractors, harvesters and other heavy machinery was tossed around and left in mangled heaps.
2ee9779ad46b2492a3fa2acfdbf4a201.jpg
7a69c010fc2e438b70ff8df845e5bd58.jpg 10e79af2dc969ec6dca4177485231195.jpg IMG_20200807_033732.jpg IMG_20200807_033758.jpg -57de000af7abcc9ce3cc329b7b6e5961.jpg -190676a1c12b4373160698ea2b5242be.jpg b63c8067ec6a16d9ed064765c91183e.jpg IMG_20200807_033812.jpg
 

eric11

Member
Messages
46
Location
Shanghai,China
Special Affiliations
  1. SKYWARN® Volunteer
  2. ARRL Member
All right I almost forget this one,Madill OK EF2 this year did some stunning car damage.These cars were thrown at least 100 yards away with no ground contact,one of them only left axle and a tyre,some ground scouring could also be found.One fatality was found in these cars.Since these car damage were done before the tornado entered the town,how could a yet fully condensed funnel did this?
54c89e523d7b9d80.png
a6c5f6e5032257f.png 2252567d8178a824.png
 
Messages
470
Location
Missouri
Some more Brandenburg pics:
Brandenburg 1.jpg

Brandenburg 2.jpg
Destroyed radio station:
Brandenburg 3.jpg
These next 2 pics are of mangled cars thrown hundreds of yards lying amongst partially scoured grass:
Brandenburg 4.jpg Brandenburg 5.jpg
Remains of a mobile home:
Brandenburg 6.jpg
A house was swept away here, and according to the description all the grass was was scoured away from this area onward:
Brandenburg 7.jpg

Swept away house or farm shed with possible ground scouring, hard to tell with the black and white photography:
Brandenburg 8.jpg
These last 2 pics are of objects impaled in wood (at least the first one is). Not sure if the second image the tires are impaled in the wood or it's just a quirk of the angle but if they are that's extremely impressive.


Brandenburg .JPG brandenburg12.JPG
 
Last edited:

buckeye05

Member
Messages
617
Location
Riverside, Ohio
Some more Brandenburg pics:

View attachment 4238 View attachment 4239
Destroyed radio station:
View attachment 4240
These next 2 pics are of mangled cars thrown hundreds of yards lying amongst partially scoured grass:
View attachment 4241 View attachment 4242
Remains of a mobile home:
View attachment 4243
A house was swept away here, and according to the description all the grass was was scoured away from this area onward:
View attachment 4244

Swept away house or farm shed with possible ground scouring, hard to tell with the black and white photography:
View attachment 4245
These last 2 pics are of objects impaled in wood (at least the first one is). Not sure if the second image the tires are impaled in the wood or it's just a quirk of the angle but if they are that's extremely impressive.
View attachment 4246

View attachment 4247
The object in the tree is a curtain rod with the curtain still attached irrc.

Also some major grass scouring is evident in the photo third from the bottom. Never noticed until now for some reason, probably due it being in black and white.
 
Messages
470
Location
Missouri
Some crazy debarking and tree damage in general was left behind after the 1899 New Richmond, WI F5.
View attachment 4073

Some more impressive pics of New Richmond:
The first 2 are panoramas of the area, both were likely taken a few days after moderate cleanup but the scale of devastation is clear in both:
new-richmond-tornado-damage-1899.png Aryjmf3.jpg

At left, remains of a brick building where a dozen people were killed in the basement. At right, view of debarked trees and flattened buildings in the center of town.

NR3.png

At left, the remains of the Nicollet Hotel, once a large, three-story brick building. The tornado hurled a 3,000 Ib. safe an entire city block and it is clearly visible at the bottom center of the photograph. At right, closer view of the swath of F5 damage through the northern side of New Richmond.
NR4.png
 
Last edited:
Messages
470
Location
Missouri
The 1919 Fergus Falls, Minnesota tornado is another tornado that often isn't talked about as much. It did some pretty impressive damage, the most notable being a 3-story hotel that was completely leveled.

1. The Grand Hotel before the tornado:

Grand Hotel 1.png

After:

Grand Hotel 2.png

The debris-filled Lake Alice:

Grand Hotel 3.png

A bunch more photographs can be found here: https://www.weather.gov/fgf/1919_06_22_FergusFallsTornado
 
Last edited:
Messages
470
Location
Missouri
The object in the tree is a curtain rod with the curtain still attached irrc.

Also some major grass scouring is evident in the photo third from the bottom. Never noticed until now for some reason, probably due it being in black and white.
Have you ever seen this photograph? Is it of the Brandenburg tornado or another tornado that occurred in Kentucky or Indiana on April 3, 1974?

Twister.jpg
 
Last edited:
Messages
41
Location
Raleigh, NC
Found some really high quality photographs from the 1953 Flint-Beecher F5. The damage path was, or at least the core of it, was very narrow and the distance between complete destruction and things basically untouched is pretty startling.
Homes in the F5 contour:
FlintBeecherMIJune1953F5.jpeg
Note the homes essentially untouched in the background
FlintMI1953F5(3).jpeg
FlintBeecherMI53housedamage.jpeg
Some vehicles
FlintMI1953vehicel(2).jpeg
FlintMIvehicle(3).jpeg
FlintMI1953vehicle(2).jpeg
FlintBeecherMI1953vehicle.png
Can't quite tell if this is a vehicle or not. Regardless, it was mangled
FlintBeecher1953vehicle2.jpg


The photos above are taken from both the Detroit Public Library digital collection as well as from the Flint Public Library digital collection.

This link also collects the photos from the Time-Life series and it's quite extensive:
https://artsandculture.google.com/entity/1953-flint–beecher-tornado/m0ll44p9

I can remember some time ago when a lot of the photos from the Time-Life series were available online. I believe the 1955 Udall tornado was photographed extensively as a part of the series as well and those pictures, which were awesome, have disappeared off the internet. Massive bummer, honestly.
 
Last edited:
Messages
41
Location
Raleigh, NC
Unfortunately, the vegetation damage the tornado caused wasn't really a focus of most photographers at the time but there are a few pictures that indicate it was on the level or worse than the other F5's recorded in the general region
FlintMI1953tree(2).jpeg
FlintMI1953treedamage.jpg
Again, note the narrow transition zone
FLintMI1953tree.jpeg

Courtesy of the Detroit Public Library digital collection and the Midland County Historical Society
 

Users who are viewing this thread

  • Top