Significant Tornado Events

[Western_KS_Wx]

Here’s another damage photo and thread posted on Twitter by Gabe Garfield from Goldsby. Definitely no shortage of extreme damage feats from both ‘EF4’ tornadoes on May 24.




Here’s a completely unrelated post, I was scrolling through my damage photos folder out of boredom and forgot I had these images from the Savannah, TN EF4 on February 5, 2008, which originated from the same supercell as the deadly Castalian Springs EF3. This tornado and quite a lot of tornadoes from that outbreak don’t get talked about much, clearly a violent tornado though.



Three homes in this area practically disappeared with a noticeable lack of debris anywhere, albeit they weren’t particularly well-built. Still damage warranted an EF4 rating.

Large mansion that had a boat launched into the side of it, with another view of the same home below.


Here’s the remains of the large baptist church and adjacent metal buildings apart of the church. The tornado probably hit peak intensity here, well-anchored steel beams were completely ripped out of concrete slabs and the main building was flattened and largely swept away.




Completely forgot I had these, I was going to do a project on google earth for this tornado and others from that outbreak but that kind of fell through, along with some other projects, for now at least. Probably will start back up on it after I finish the Greensburg article and whatnot.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

I'll post what I got on Chickasha and Goldsby, now that that topic's up again.

Chickasha:

The ground scouring & vehicle damage from this thing is a notch or two below Bridge Creek in spots.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

These 2 pics are from a presentation on EF4 vs. EF5 damage:








These pics are of a concrete dome house directly impacted by Chickasha, specifically designed to be tornado-resistant.

Before:



After:

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Onto Goldsby:

These are of vehicle damage & ground scouring, again reminds me of Bridge Creek in places (perhaps a step or two below in intensity):






This last pic, don't think any scouring but note the bent bushes & large tank rolled a short distance.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

House damage. Vilonia-like logic was applied here, I think (I forgot the specifics) to deem this EF4 instead of EF5 damage:

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

More home damage:

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

While I'm at it, the Canton Lake EF4 was definitely underrated too. 190 mph velocities were recorded in it & the damage it did strikes me as more violent than EF3:

 

[pohnpei]

Some rare recording of damage of Red Rock tornado in this footage beginning from 50:00
This was shot from Interstate 35 which was the place where around 280mph winds recorded by DOW

 

[ColdFront]

Has there been any kind of effort to “simulate” the convection reflectivity of the 4/3/74 event? Really would be an interesting simulation to compare to the actual radar data from 4/27/11.

I’ve read a few studies that the April 1974 tornadoes were in multiple “convective bands” or squall lines, with convective band 2 containing the most violent and widespread tornadoes.

Would just be interesting to see if the simulation could resolve the environmental parameters and see how discrete those supercells were or if some were embedded, or if it was truly a giant broken squall line of supercells.

 

[TH2002]

House damage. Vilonia-like logic was applied here, I think (I forgot the specifics) to deem this EF4 instead of EF5 damage:


View attachment 22587View attachment 22588View attachment 22589View attachment 22590View attachment 22591View attachment 22592View attachment 22593View attachment 22594

For the home that was specifically engineered to be tornado-resistant yet still slapped with an EF4 rating (the one in the last four photos), the excuse becomes, depending on your source, either "the washers were too small" or "a fencepost was left standing".

To be completely honest, when I think about it I can't decide whether the Vilonia or Goldsby survey was worse. In Goldsby the basic mentality was seemingly "hmmm... we have multiple homes slabbed and they all seem to be well-built, so let's play gymnastics with literally every single one to prove this tornado was anything but an EF5". In Vilonia, LZK basically said "let's just play gymnastics with that one well constructed home (the Wicker Street house) and then ignore the rest".

Pick your poison...

View attachment 22598

Do you happen to know where this home was (or at least where you got the photo from)? I don't think I've ever seen that one before.

Regarding Chickasha, this opinion may be moderately controversial but TBH I don't think its rating is quiiiite as egregious as Goldsby... though with that said, both of the "EF4" tornadoes that day were well into the EF5 category and should have been rated as such.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

For the home that was specifically engineered to be tornado-resistant yet still slapped with an EF4 rating (the one in the last four photos), the excuse becomes, depending on your source, either "the washers were too small" or "a fencepost was left standing".

To be completely honest, when I think about it I can't decide whether the Vilonia or Goldsby survey was worse. In Goldsby the basic mentality was seemingly "hmmm... we have multiple homes slabbed and they all seem to be well-built, so let's play gymnastics with literally every single one to prove this tornado was anything but an EF5". In Vilonia, LZK basically said "let's just play gymnastics with that one well constructed home (the Wicker Street house) and then ignore the rest".

Pick your poison...


Do you happen to know where this home was (or at least where you got the photo from)? I don't think I've ever seen that one before.

Regarding Chickasha, this opinion may be moderately controversial but TBH I don't think its rating is quiiiite as egregious as Goldsby... though with that said, both of the "EF4" tornadoes that day were well into the EF5 category and should have been rated as such.

I got the photo of the slabbed house with the sonic cup from here: https://talkweather.com/threads/significant-tornado-events.1276/page-9#post-45366

It's an alternative angle of the house used in Tim Marshall's survey.

 

[joshoctober16]

For the home that was specifically engineered to be tornado-resistant yet still slapped with an EF4 rating (the one in the last four photos), the excuse becomes, depending on your source, either "the washers were too small" or "a fencepost was left standing".

To be completely honest, when I think about it I can't decide whether the Vilonia or Goldsby survey was worse. In Goldsby the basic mentality was seemingly "hmmm... we have multiple homes slabbed and they all seem to be well-built, so let's play gymnastics with literally every single one to prove this tornado was anything but an EF5". In Vilonia, LZK basically said "let's just play gymnastics with that one well constructed home (the Wicker Street house) and then ignore the rest".

Pick your poison...


Do you happen to know where this home was (or at least where you got the photo from)? I don't think I've ever seen that one before.

Regarding Chickasha, this opinion may be moderately controversial but TBH I don't think its rating is quiiiite as egregious as Goldsby... though with that said, both of the "EF4" tornadoes that day were well into the EF5 category and should have been rated as such.

i think any of these should be upgraded to EF5 , as i cant find any reason to not rate them as EF5 without getting rid of 99% of all past F5/EF5

should be rated 205+ mph list

Pre EF scale

1. Marion County - Barnes F4+ July 2004 --not rated because it was moving too slow but stated would of been rated EF5 in 2007

EF scale

1. Wren EF3+ April 2011 --all EF5 damage spots missed by NWS
2. Ringgold EF4+ April 2011 --1 to 2 Homes show EF5 damage, one was clearly well built with no flaws.
3. Flat Rock EF4+ April 2011 --interesting to note that this one apparently had a better chance of getting a EF5 rating then Tuscaloosa according to NWS
4. Chickasha - Blanchard - Newcastle EF4+ May 2011 --no good reason
5. Vilonia - Mayflower EF4+ April 2014 --no good reason
6. Rochelle EF4+ April 2015 --no good reason with 10-20 200 mph DI spots
7. WTS EF4 August 2018 --note happened in china? threw a water tank that was over 3-5 tones over 4+ miles away, it also swept clean well built brick homes
8. Mayfield - Bremen EF4+ Dec 2021 --no good reason

Borderline or 200+ mph list (200 mph EF4 to EF5 but more on the 201-204 mph side)

Pre EF scale
Lincoln County- Franklin County- Coffee County F4+ April 1974 -- apparently did F5 damage (EF5 in 2007-2011 terms) but nws kind of missed the main spot

EF scale

1. Hopewell - Macksville EF3+ May 2007 --apparently a reverse tanner situation, as it was rated EF4? but a error was made and they kept the error...it swept clean a well built home, and killed some one in a underground shelter, threw a vehicle over 700+ yards away
2. Goldsby - Dibble EF4+ May 2011 --no good reason

and others to note (should be 200 mph at least) are
Pre EF scale

1. Salix F4+ June 1899
2. Norton F4 June 1909

EF scale

1. Trousdale EF3+ May 2007
2. Barnesville EF3+ April 2011
3. Henryville EF4+ March 2012
4. Louisville EF4 April 2014 --weird situation with this one as it has the only DOD on the EF scale with no wind speed
5. Chapman EF4+ May 2016
6. Hope - Sartinville - Bassfield EF4 April 2020
7. Bassfield - Collins - Soso EF4 April 2020

 

[TH2002]

i think any of these should be upgraded to EF5 , as i cant find any reason to not rate them as EF5 without getting rid of 99% of all past F5/EF5

should be rated 205+ mph list

Pre EF scale
Marion County - Barnes F4+ July 2004 --not rated because it was moving too slow but stated would of been rated EF5 in 2007

EF scale
Wren EF3+ April 2011 --all EF5 damage spots missed by NWS
Ringgold EF4+ April 2011 --1 to 2 Homes show EF5 damage, one was clearly well built with no flaws.
Flat Rock EF4+ April 2011 --interesting to note that this one apparently had a better chance of getting a EF5 rating then Tuscaloosa according to NWS
Chickasha - Blanchard - Newcastle EF4+ May 2011 --no good reason
Vilonia - Mayflower EF4+ April 2014 --no good reason
Rochelle EF4+ April 2015 --no good reason with 10-20 200 mph DI spots
WTS EF4 August 2018 --note happened in china? threw something that was over 3+ tones over 4+ miles away, it also swept clean well built brick homes
Mayfield - Bremen EF4+ Dec 2021 --no good reason

Borderline or 200+ mph list (200 mph EF4 to EF5 but more on the 201-204 mph side)

Pre EF scale
Lincoln County- Franklin County- Coffee County F4+ April 1974 -- apparently did F5 damage (EF5 in 2007-2011 terms) but nws kind of missed the main spot

EF scale
Hopewell - Macksville EF3+ May 2007 --apparently a reverse tanner situation, as it was rated EF4? but a error was made and they kept the error...it swept clean a well built home, and killed some one in a underground shelter, threw a vehicle over 700+ yards away
Goldsby - Dibble EF4+ May 2011 --no good reason


and others to note (should be 200 mph at least) are
Pre EF scale
Salix F4+ June 1899
Norton F4 June 1909

EF scale
Trousdale EF3+ May 2007
Barnesville EF3+ April 2011
Henryville EF4+ March 2012
Louisville EF4 April 2014 --weird situation with this one as it has the only DOD on the EF scale with no wind speed
Chapman EF4+ May 2016
Hope - Sartinville - Bassfield EF4 April 2020
Bassfield - Collins - Soso EF4 April 2020

I'm curious about the well built home you mentioned from Ringgold? Was it the one in Apison or are you thinking of a different one?

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

For the home that was specifically engineered to be tornado-resistant yet still slapped with an EF4 rating (the one in the last four photos), the excuse becomes, depending on your source, either "the washers were too small" or "a fencepost was left standing".

To be completely honest, when I think about it I can't decide whether the Vilonia or Goldsby survey was worse. In Goldsby the basic mentality was seemingly "hmmm... we have multiple homes slabbed and they all seem to be well-built, so let's play gymnastics with literally every single one to prove this tornado was anything but an EF5". In Vilonia, LZK basically said "let's just play gymnastics with that one well constructed home (the Wicker Street house) and then ignore the rest".

Pick your poison...


Do you happen to know where this home was (or at least where you got the photo from)? I don't think I've ever seen that one before.

Regarding Chickasha, this opinion may be moderately controversial but TBH I don't think its rating is quiiiite as egregious as Goldsby... though with that said, both of the "EF4" tornadoes that day were well into the EF5 category and should have been rated as such.

Chickasha is still pretty bad, the dome house designed to be tornado-resistant was apparently built to withstand winds of up to 200 mph and was still severely damaged.
Apparently asphalt was scoured from the home's driveway, although I've yet to find a picture of that.

This home was labelled "EF5 candidate" by Tim Marshall.




in the background you can see vegetation and a grove of trees that's sustained severe debarking.

 

[joshoctober16]

I'm curious about the well built home you mentioned from Ringgold? Was it the one in Apison or are you thinking of a different one?

it was talked in good detail on tornadotalk's website, but its behind a paywall. i remember once doing a tilted map of the EF5 damage with the 2 homes to note, but i forgot what one was the well built home.... i do know it had a shed beside it that had its foundation pushed and slightly broken away.

here's that tilted image thingy


its one of these 2 in the purple outline area

 

[pohnpei]

For the home that was specifically engineered to be tornado-resistant yet still slapped with an EF4 rating (the one in the last four photos), the excuse becomes, depending on your source, either "the washers were too small" or "a fencepost was left standing".

To be completely honest, when I think about it I can't decide whether the Vilonia or Goldsby survey was worse. In Goldsby the basic mentality was seemingly "hmmm... we have multiple homes slabbed and they all seem to be well-built, so let's play gymnastics with literally every single one to prove this tornado was anything but an EF5". In Vilonia, LZK basically said "let's just play gymnastics with that one well constructed home (the Wicker Street house) and then ignore the rest".

Pick your poison...


Do you happen to know where this home was (or at least where you got the photo from)? I don't think I've ever seen that one before.

Regarding Chickasha, this opinion may be moderately controversial but TBH I don't think its rating is quiiiite as egregious as Goldsby... though with that said, both of the "EF4" tornadoes that day were well into the EF5 category and should have been rated as such.

According to the surveyor in the tread above, Chickasha's damage was "a notch above Goldsby". Also Marshal seem to agree with Chickasha being an EF5 but choose to left Goldsby as EF4 in that document. Anyway both should be EF5 and there were 4 EF5 intensity wise tornado on that day.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

According to the surveyor in the tread above, Chickasha's damage was "a notch above Goldsby". Also Marshal seem to agree with Chickasha being an EF5 but choose to left Goldsby as EF4 in that document. Anyway both should be EF5 and there were 4 EF5 intensity wise tornado on that day.

What's the 4th one?

 

[joshoctober16]

What's the 4th one?

it was at its strongest on the lake and when it exited the lake, tree damage is severe to the north of the lake

 

[TH2002]

According to the surveyor in the tread above, Chickasha's damage was "a notch above Goldsby". Also Marshal seem to agree with Chickasha being an EF5 but choose to left Goldsby as EF4 in that document. Anyway both should be EF5 and there were 4 EF5 intensity wise tornado on that day.

I've always considered Goldsby to be a more 'straightfoward' EF5 candidate in terms of the damage it caused to well built homes, though I do think the extreme contextual damage in Chickasha was more widespread than in the latter. But yeah, both Chickasha and Goldsby were definitely EF5s, zero question.

 

[pohnpei]

What's the 4th one?

Canton lake. It did contextual damage meet with that level. Despite DOW being like 185-190mph, it deployed too far away from tornado with lowest scan too high. The highest wind was observed at 195m AGL which is highly unlikely being the strongest tornado inside tornados. (tornados usually have strongest tornado very near the ground)