Significant Tornado Events (9 Viewers)


Messages
345
Location
Lenexa, KS
Honestly I have a few questions to raise about all of the officially-rated F5 tornadoes in 1990. Hesston was borderline, since most of the houses swept away were not especially well-anchored, with only a couple being very well-built. I agree completely that Goessel was massively overrated.

Plainfield was an interesting case because almost all of the damage to buildings, vehicles, other structures, etc. was intense, but not exceptional...while at the same time, the crop scouring in the cornfields near the start of the path was extremely impressive, with apparently only roots left behind. It's another one of those cases where the rating really depends on whether you include vegetation damage as a DI. I haven't seen any photos of structural damage worse than low-end F4, but crop scouring that intense absolutely justifies an F5 rating imho.

I still am totally convinced that the strongest tornado of the year was the Pecos County tornado on 6/1, with the Trenton/Culbertson, NE tornado (6/15) being a close runner-up.
Now the Hesston, Kansas tornado I believe deserved an F5 rating the Gossell tornado probably did not. If you never watched the Hesston tornado on YouTube you probably should. It reminds of the Elie, MB on June 22, 2007 but wider when doing F5 damage.
 
Messages
345
Location
Lenexa, KS
This footage of Niles/Wheatland always blows me away:


According to Grazulis that this was the first F5 tornado to be caught on videotape (as opposed to just old film roll cameras). I'm pretty sure this is also the first audio of an F5 tornado as well. Even more impressive is that these two firsts are of an F5 in Pennsylvania (the only F5 in Pennsylvania state history, I might add) as opposed to being in a place like Kansas, Oklahoma, or the Deep South, where violent tornadoes like this are more commonly expected.
That is an extremely violent tornado. I like how the guy in the vid says that's paper. That is a lot more than paper. I never knew the violence of this tornado until recently.
 
Messages
253
Location
Missouri
That is some pretty violent tree damage.
I'd love to get more aerial views of it, especially when the tornado went through valleys and ridges and climbed mountains around 2,000 feet or so high. I think it may have toppled some fire towers and mangled them violently, but have yet to find photos of it. What's interesting about this thing is that it had a width of 2.25 miles and a path length that was nearly 70 miles long, virtually identical to the violent EF4 that impacted Bassfield and Pachuta, MS last month. That thing also left a wide scar of deforestation visible from satellite and uprooted tens of thousands (if not millions) of trees as well. It was also 2.25 miles wide at its peak.
 

bjdeming

Member
Messages
224
Location
Corvallis, Oregon
Powerful earthquakes can generate liquefaction of soil and that's how you can wind up with stuff like this
View attachment 3215
after an earthquake. Perhaps tornadoes can do stuff like that (albeit at a much smaller level) to soil that allows for easier ground scouring? Interesting thought you have there. I believe Tim Samaras was working on a project on tornado-induced seismic waves but it never came to pass due to his passing away in 2013.
Wow! Interesting how that effect cut across plowed rows of dirt. I suspect that is because the movement originated at depth.

Massive tornadoes probably do cause seismic waves (and infrasound and all kinds of interesting effects), but these would only affect the top layers of the soil.

Perhaps human alteration of the landscape is behind those very rare tornado gouge effects. If not, it's hard to explain.

By the way, someone called them "Philadelphia style." Does anyone know what that means?

In geology there is sometimes a shear effect when two formations move in different directions; it creates what's called a "pull-apart" basin that sort of resembles those gouges. This can happen either as one large one (as shown) or, as in some of the other pictures, a linear row of separate and very small basins that follow the line where the two differently moving formations meet (in geology, a fault line -- there probably isn't an equivalent for it in loose soil, and even hardpan could be called "loose" compared to rock).

Certainly there is plenty of shear associated with a massive tornado on the ground, but whether or how that could be transmitted to the ground, I have no idea. And pull-apart basins might only happen in rock, not comparatively loose dirt. (Also, the piece affected moves down, not up, but if there is an opening for wind to enter while this is going on, and with a huge vortex there, well, maybe...it's interesting to think about, anyway.)

If they could figure out an instrument-free way to link ground-scouring processes to tornado intensity, that would really help the problem that many people have mentioned here: determining tornado intensity when there was no human structure around for the storm to damage.

But there are SO many variables.
 
Messages
253
Location
Missouri
Wow! Interesting how that effect cut across plowed rows of dirt. I suspect that is because the movement originated at depth.

Massive tornadoes probably do cause seismic waves (and infrasound and all kinds of interesting effects), but these would only affect the top layers of the soil.

Perhaps human alteration of the landscape is behind those very rare tornado gouge effects. If not, it's hard to explain.

By the way, someone called them "Philadelphia style." Does anyone know what that means?

In geology there is sometimes a shear effect when two formations move in different directions; it creates what's called a "pull-apart" basin that sort of resembles those gouges. This can happen either as one large one (as shown) or, as in some of the other pictures, a linear row of separate and very small basins that follow the line where the two differently moving formations meet (in geology, a fault line -- there probably isn't an equivalent for it in loose soil, and even hardpan could be called "loose" compared to rock).

Certainly there is plenty of shear associated with a massive tornado on the ground, but whether or how that could be transmitted to the ground, I have no idea. And pull-apart basins might only happen in rock, not comparatively loose dirt. (Also, the piece affected moves down, not up, but if there is an opening for wind to enter while this is going on, and with a huge vortex there, well, maybe...it's interesting to think about, anyway.)

If they could figure out an instrument-free way to link ground-scouring processes to tornado intensity, that would really help the problem that many people have mentioned here: determining tornado intensity when there was no human structure around for the storm to damage.

But there are SO many variables.
"Philadelphia style" is a reference to this:


This tornado struck areas near Philadelphia, MS during the April 27, 2011 Super Outbreak. These trenches were up to 3 feet deep in places.
 
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buckeye05

Member
Messages
556
Location
Riverside, Ohio
The best collection of damage photos of the San Justo tornado I've been able to find. Yeah, this thing was definitely an F5, and this is probably the most violent tornado damage I've seen outside of the United States.


This article is interesting when read in English translation, as apparently this was the only F5 tornado not just in South America but the entire southern hemisphere. Not sure of the accuracy of that, but interesting nonetheless:

Interesting thing on Spanish wikipedia. The first is Spanish translation of their article on "tornado corridors". Apparently South America has its own tornado alley. The second is an English translation of their article on the 1973 San Justo tornado:

1. https://translate.google.com/transl....org/wiki/Pasillo_de_los_Tornados&prev=search

2. https://translate.google.com/transl...wiki/Tornado_de_San_Justo_en_1973&prev=search

This is apparently a pic of it. No clue what the 3 circled objects in the air are, but my guess is automobiles.

View attachment 3216
That last photo is a fake. It's a digitally aged photo of the 2013 Shawnee, OK EF4. There's also photo of the 2003 O'Neill, NE tornado being passed off as the San Justo tornado, which there are no actual photos of. IDK why people feel the need to fabricate pieces of tornado history. In any case, it was an extremely violent tornado that scoured the grass to bare soil in some area, and caused well-built homes to essentially disappear according to some reports. Here is one of the homes that was swept away in San Justo. I used to have a "before" picture of it but now I can only find the "after" pic. But anyway, this was a large, sturdy concrete/masonry house.
 
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buckeye05

Member
Messages
556
Location
Riverside, Ohio
Some photographs of damage done by the Moshannon State Forest tornado
:View attachment 3217
View attachment 3218
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View attachment 3220

The path of this thing is still visible decades later due to the immense deforestation it did. Pretty incredible:

View attachment 3224

An article on it's 30th anniversary. Seems like it did most of its damage to structures at the very beginning of its path. I am curious as to what was the DI that allowed for the F4 rating (aside from massive swaths of tree damage):

From what I understand, this was one of those rare tree-damage based F/EF4s. They seem to be a little more common as of late though.
 
Messages
253
Location
Missouri
That last photo is a fake. It's a digitally aged photo of the 2013 Shawnee, OK EF4. There's also photo of the 2003 O'Neill, NE tornado being passed off as the San Justo tornado, which there are no actual photos of. IDK know why people feel the need to fabricate pieces of tornado history. In any case, it was an extremely violent tornado that scoured the grass to bare soil in some area, and caused well-built homes to essentially disappear according to some reports. Here is one of the homes that was swept away in San Justo. I used to have a "before" picture of it but now I can only find the "after" pic. But anyway, this was a large, sturdy concrete/masonry house.
So are the other pictures all real? Just wanna be safe I don't post incorrect information. Also that photo of the masonry house I think there is a video on YouTube that had a before and after of it, pretty sure this same video showed entire factories being swept away (or at least leveled) by this thing.
 

buckeye05

Member
Messages
556
Location
Riverside, Ohio
So are the other pictures all real? Just wanna be safe I don't post incorrect information. Also that photo of the masonry house I think there is a video on YouTube that had a before and after of it, pretty sure this same video showed entire factories being swept away (or at least leveled) by this thing.
The rest are real. There are just no actual photos of the tornado itself.

Also, yet I've seen those aerial shots. It did largely slab some industrial buildings in town.
 

buckeye05

Member
Messages
556
Location
Riverside, Ohio
Speaking of violent tornadoes outside the US, I wish there was more info on the Ivanovo, Russia tornado of 1984. Some of the damage it caused sounds almost impossibly intense (lofting construction cranes through the air and sweeping away reinforced concrete buildings). I feel that this may be a result of hyperbole and mistranslation over time though. Not much reliable info out there on it.

I should mention that the guy I mentioned a few pages back was usually the one making these claims, so that automatically sets of my BS detector.
 

Brice

Member
Messages
182
Location
Virginia
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This picture of the Carney OK 2013 tornado reminds me of the 1999 Moore tornado given the size and radar presentation. This tornado was more underrated than Shawnee and Moore (2013)but, the vortices during its early stages we're almost certainly above 200 MPH. The horizontal vortex look as textbook I will ever see.

It had GTG shear over 200 MPH right when it was about to hit Carney
 

pohnpei

Member
Messages
134
Location
shanghai
Speaking of violent tornadoes outside the US, I wish there was more info on the Ivanovo, Russia tornado of 1984. Some of the damage it caused sounds almost impossibly intense (lofting construction cranes through the air and sweeping away reinforced concrete buildings). I feel that this may be a result of hyperbole and mistranslation over time though. Not much reliable info out there on it.
There was a good article about this outbreak and it mentioned some damage descriptoon mabe exaggrated. It also questioned whether the whole tornado path was continuous.
 
Messages
253
Location
Missouri
Speaking of violent tornadoes outside the US, I wish there was more info on the Ivanovo, Russia tornado of 1984. Some of the damage it caused sound almost impossibly intense (lofting construction cranes through the air and sweeping away reinforced concrete buildings). I feel that this may be a result of hyperbole though. Not much reliable info out there on it.
This PDF file is the best source on it in English: https://ejssm.org/ojs/index.php/ejssm/article/view/98/82

There's quite a bit B&W pics of damage done by the Ivanovo tornado (more likely tornado family) but they are all in Russian. Here's a google image result I found for typing "Ивановский торнадо 1984":


Some photos do show possible intense damage, but I feel like this is one of those deals where the most severe damage likely was noticed or photographed. Not sure, however.
 

pohnpei

Member
Messages
134
Location
shanghai
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This picture of the Carney OK 2013 tornado reminds me of the 1999 Moore tornado given the size and radar presentation. This tornado was more underrated than Shawnee and Moore (2013)but, the vortices during its early stages we're almost certainly above 200 MPH. The horizontal vortex look as textbook I will ever see.

It had GTG shear over 200 MPH right when it was about to hit Carney
RaxPol measured 90.9m/s at 103 AGL around 2204UTC, certainly a very violent tornado.
It went through woods area before close to Carney. I can find some near violent level car and tree damage but hard to find more high end damage
 

Equus

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Messages
1,847
Location
Saragossa, AL
I clearly remember watching the Carney tornado and being more impressed with its appearance than the more violent Shawnee tornado, probably had violent potential at brief points. Both of course overshadowed dramatically and forgotten by the events of the following day.
 

Brice

Member
Messages
182
Location
Virginia
I clearly remember watching the Carney tornado and being more impressed with its appearance than the more violent Shawnee tornado, probably had violent potential at brief points. Both of course overshadowed dramatically and forgotten by the events of the following day.

It's motion definitely seemed more violent than Shawnee. I think if it hit Carney at peak strength it would probably be confirmed as a violent tornado. At peak strength it didn't hit much and the stuff it did hit was probably the RFD or the inflow jet.
 

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