Significant Tornado Events

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Which tornado would you say was more violent, Guin AL 1974 or Smithville MS 2011? Or are they on a very comparable tier?

Guin's been discussed on this thread before, here's a link to previous posts of mine with some of the few good damage photographs I've been able to find from it:

1. https://talkweather.com/threads/significant-tornado-events.1276/page-42#post-46843

2. https://talkweather.com/threads/significant-tornado-events.1276/page-54#post-49003


These next 2 links are posts from other members:

3. https://talkweather.com/threads/significant-tornado-events.1276/page-54#post-48989

4. https://talkweather.com/threads/significant-tornado-events.1276/page-54#post-48979


I'd love to find more clear photographs of its damage path, but not sure how viable that is.

 

[Marshal79344]

Here's some more Guin Photos I've been able to find

 

[buckeye05]

Edit: sorry meant to quote Marshal79344’s post


Extremely impressive tree damage there. Trees reduced down to debarked stumps like that is something that I associate with the most violent of tornadoes, such as Sherman, TX for example. Definitely some scouring of grass too, but not nearly as severe as the other pic.

What’s curious is the building that’s still standing nearby. I’m assuming this has to to with Guin’s apparent very sharply defined, narrow swath of violent damage, and likely a very well-built structure.

 

[buckeye05]

Actually I have to ask, are we positive that the pic above is from Guin? It does remind me of some damage pics I’ve seen taken near the school after the 1955 Udall, KS F5.

 

[Marshal79344]

Actually I have to ask, are we positive that the pic above is from Guin? It does remind me of some damage pics I’ve seen taken near the school after the 1955 Udall, KS F5.

Yeah it is. It's from the same photoset as this one:

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Yeah it is. It's from the same photoset as this one:View attachment 6214

Out of curiosity where did you find these photos

Here's some more Guin Photos I've been able to find

View attachment 6206
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Out of curiosity, where'd you find these?

 

[ARCC]

You're right,there's snow occurred both before and after the event, It's not rare to get snow in an early or late cool season tornado outbreak.But seeing all of this destructions covered with snow makes me feel a little bit strange, just like viewing the West Liberty WV EF3 damage on 3/2/2012.
Merrill tornado "snow tree damage"
View attachment 6143
This tornado went directly into the town and mowed down thousands acres of hardwood and softwood forests outside town.At some point, I'm sure it was capable of reaching Violent tornado strength just examining these big, hardwood pine trees with only fat tree trunks and little branches or leaves left behind, though debarking or denuding was hard to find, which I believe there weren't enough debris to finish some debarking.
View attachment 6144

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Light ground scouring could also be found in open fields near the town's factory.
View attachment 6147
Fire hydrant got pulled out of the ground
View attachment 6148
Not quite clear though what damage indicator earned this one an EF3 rating, I'm guessing some poorly-anchored house got leveled or AWC.I viewed some videos after the tornado and it's really hard to find impressive house damage or bare slabs and foundations.Most houses in the town suffered from some roof or walls damage except for this one below.
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I'm assuming that this tornado was a fast-moving type and its size was close to some big cone or"tight wedge" so that there's barely 5-10 seconds for a single home to be destroyed.Multi-Vortex structure and violent upward motion can be seen in the video you published just like some the birth time of dixie monsters.
Merrill Tornado mature stage
View attachment 6151

Pretty sure that is a “fake” hydrant not actually attached to the main.

 

[Marshal79344]

Out of curiosity where did you find these photos

Out of curiosity, where'd you find these?

I found them while scouring through Facebook and Ebay

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Yeah, I mentioned that it went very close to the track of the 1840 Natchez tornado, although the 1908 storm started further back in Louisiana and crossed the river a little further north, I believe.

It was also a morning outbreak in Mississippi, although it was in the afternoon for Alabama. It started in MS at 2:30 AM with the first tornado in the Northwestern corner of the state with one occurred roughly every 70 miles south of the previous tornado. There were likely some tornadoes that went unreported, but the major ones were spaced out pretty evenly.

The Vidalia/Natchez tornado started at about 5:00 AM and the Amite/Purvis tornado began around Noon, reaching Purvis a little after 2:00 PM.

For Alabama, it began shortly after in Dora/Bergens at a little before 3:00 PM because it is so much further North than Purvis.

There is an interesting write up on the Dora storm by W.F. Lehman in the Monthly Weather Review. He went to the area and looked into if the elevation helped Dora escape with less destruction than Bergen.

https://journals.ametsoc.org/downlo...6/5/1520-0493_1908_36_134_tadaba_2_0_co_2.pdf

I need to try to find something on the 1906 Meridian MS tornado that had such a similar setup to the 1908 outbreak.

Not much but an antique print concerning the 1906 Meridian, MS tornado that you might find interesting for purely historical purposes. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1906-Antiq...927663?hash=item596776ca6f:g:kD4AAOSwgCxdTTt4

 

[buckeye05]

While on the topic of the 1974 Super Outbreak, here are some rarely seen photos of the Xenia tornado.

Here's the 1966 Candlestick Park/Jackson, MS tornado as well:

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

While on the topic of the 1974 Super Outbreak, here are some rarely seen photos of the Xenia tornado.

Here's the 1966 Candlestick Park/Jackson, MS tornado as well:

That second to last photo of Xenia reveals a pretty incredible structure, reminds me of that violent Nebraska tornado in June 1990.


The source of that Candlestick Park is from this video, sorry if you already knew that in advance. I wish I could find more damage aerials from this thing in clearer quality and that the clips wouldn't zip by so fast in this program.
I have a feeling there's quite a bit of incredible footage of this thing locked away in local news archives throughout Mississippi.

 

[pohnpei]

One tornado that not often talked about here but was very famous in chasing community was Bowdle SD tornado 2010.
Despite the lack of increible scouring feature of this tornado, I do believe extreme winds likely occurred inside of this monster.
NCDC link:https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=235969
One thing paticluarly notable was the damage of transmission towers

One tower was sheared off from the concrete footings and traveled an estimated 400 yards. Ground scouring was visible along the path of these towers.

Some of the transmission towers that not completely sheared off was mangled so completely that I raraly see in other violent tornados.

Widespread tree damage was sustained with many of the trees completely debarked with only the stumps of the largest branches remaining.

Trees were also completely debarked in some area.

 

[pohnpei]

I would say that ground scouring can be a good indicator of extreme intensity, but only when a certain types of ground and surface vegetation are impacted. People get too excited over any type of mark that a tornado leaves on the ground. Scouring of farm fields is not particularly significant, as these fields have higher vegetation, and loose soil from tilling and plowing. It doesn’t take a very strong tornado to leave a distinct and visible path in these conditions. Now what IS impressive is what grass or very short surface vegetation, and topsoil is scoured from the ground, such as lawns in a residential area. That type of ground scouring is a phenomenon associated with only the most violent of tornadoes. Trench digging is another type of scouring that is very rare, and suggestive of remarkable strength.

Now this damage picture from Guin, AL 1974 is pretty much among the most textbook examples of what extreme, EF5 level ground scouring looks like close up. Notice the complete removal of surface vegetation, and scouring of the underlying topsoil in the foreground. What’s even more impressive is how scour-resistant Alabama soil is, and how fast-moving the Guin tornado was. Taking these factors into consideration, I’d say this photo shows the most impressive ground scouring I’ve seen in the state of Alabama.
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Yes, tornados like Planfield IL 1990, Wilkin County ND-MN 2010, Dalton MN 2020 left very deep "scouring" on farm fields but I don't believe it was indicative of EF5 intensity.
Scouring can be very comlicated due to numerous reasons. The type of soil was different from place to place. I once heard that soil southwest of OKC was more prone to scouring or something. The mositure level of the soil before the tornado can also play a role in the degree of the scouring damage. What's more, some certain types of tornado can be more prone to scouring than other. I believe one-cell/narrow core/slow moving tornados was easier to scour the ground than multi-vortex/large core/fast moving tornados.
Some tornados like El Reno 2013 or Red Rock 1991(even no scar in the satellite image) or Bennington KS 2013 or Mulhall Ok produce little to no intense scouring, but very intense winds did occur inside these tornados.

 

[buckeye05]

One tornado that not often talked about here but was very famous in chasing community was Bowdle SD tornado 2010.
Despite the lack of increible scouring feature of this tornado, I do believe extreme winds likely occurred inside of this monster.
NCDC link:https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/stormevents/eventdetails.jsp?id=235969
One thing paticluarly notable was the damage of transmission towers

Some of the transmission towers that not completely sheared off was mangled so completely that I raraly see in other violent tornados.
View attachment 6216


Trees were also completely debarked in some area.
View attachment 6215

I forgot about this one. The Bowdle tornado did not produce any EF4 structural damage, but was rated EF4 mainly based on a metal truss tower that was ripped from its footings, thrown a considerable distance, and completely mangled. It might have even been the one in the photo above. I think the extreme debarking was also taken into consideration for an EF4 rating. A good example of a more "liberaly" rated EF4 that I actually do agree with.

 

[buckeye05]

Yes, tornados like Planfield IL 1990, Wilkin County ND-MN 2010, Dalton MN 2020 left very deep "scouring" on farm fields but I don't believe it was indicative of EF5 intensity.
Scouring can be very comlicated due to numerous reasons. The type of soil was different from place to place. I once heard that soil southwest of OKC was more prone to scouring or something. The mositure level of the soil before the tornado can also play a role in the degree of the scouring damage. What's more, some certain types of tornado can be more prone to scouring than other. I believe one-cell/narrow core/slow moving tornados was easier to scour the ground than multi-vortex/large core/fast moving tornados.
Some tornados like El Reno 2013 or Red Rock 1991(even no scar in the satellite image) or Bennington KS 2013 or Mulhall Ok produce little to no intense scouring, but very intense winds did occur inside these tornados.

Yes. Most of Oklahoma has what is known as a "loam soil", which is extremely fine, powdery, and light. Some tornadoes in Oklahoma have been known to pick up the powdery soil, and plaster it to the grass along the path of the tornado, without actually removing any grass. This leaves behind a streak of reddish-brown discoloration, even if no actual ground scouring has occurred.

 

[OHWX97]

I noticed the 2017 East Canton, TX tornado was mentioned in this thread recently, which reminded me of another underrated Texas tornado. Of course, I'm talking about the Westminster F3, May 9, 2006. Pics speak for themselves:

 

[MNTornadoGuy]

The slabbed homes that are supposedly from the 2017 Canton TX EF3 that have been posted here appear to actually be from the EF4 and NOT the EF3. They look almost exactly like the slabbed home the NWS surveyed during the EF4.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

I noticed the 2017 East Canton, TX tornado was mentioned in this thread recently, which reminded me of another underrated Texas tornado. Of course, I'm talking about the Westminster F3, May 9, 2006. Pics speak for themselves:
View attachment 6228View attachment 6229View attachment 6230View attachment 6231View attachment 6232View attachment 6233View attachment 6234View attachment 6235

I made a previous post about this thing on a now-defunct thread, might as well post it here:

Which tornado do you think deserved an EF-5 rating?

Tuscaloosa tornado. There was some wicked damage as it was exiting city limits NE into Holt. Between Chastain Manor Apartments and the train trestle over Hurricane Creek, I think it achieved EF-5 strength. Absolutely mangled that train track and the train on it. I think there is a good...

talkweather.com

Yeah this thing did phenomenal ground scouring, it was underrated due to occurring at the height of the La Plata controversy of 2002 ( that's a whole other discussion). It disemboweled vehicles, even tearing their axles out in some cases.

 

[pohnpei]

The slabbed homes that are supposedly from the 2017 Canton TX EF3 that have been posted here appear to actually be from the EF4 and NOT the EF3. They look almost exactly like the slabbed home the NWS surveyed during the EF4.

You can watch this video and noticed the damage of the Dodge dealership(32:11) along I-20. It was made by Canton EF3. This was an aerial damage video of Canton EF3's path.


And notice the damage at 40:50 and 37:18 of this video, checking this from KML on GE, which further confrim that it was the damage from Canton EF3.
Also notice 24:49 of the video, that was the place that some shrubs were completely debarked and cars had been tossed 500 yards away.

 

[OHWX97]

I made a previous post about this thing on a now-defunct thread, might as well post it here:

Which tornado do you think deserved an EF-5 rating?

Tuscaloosa tornado. There was some wicked damage as it was exiting city limits NE into Holt. Between Chastain Manor Apartments and the train trestle over Hurricane Creek, I think it achieved EF-5 strength. Absolutely mangled that train track and the train on it. I think there is a good...

talkweather.com

Yeah this thing did phenomenal ground scouring, it was underrated due to occurring at the height of the La Plata controversy of 2002 ( that's a whole other discussion). It disemboweled vehicles, even tearing their axles out in some cases.

Thank you. I could've sworn Westminster was mentioned earlier in this thread, but I completely forgot about that other thread.