Significant Tornado Events

[Casuarina Head]

So, TornadoTalk's summary of Guin that will be free to the public later this week is complete. I have a premium membership so I get it earlier. The full summary (6 articles) isn't done yet but likely will be soon. The majority of photographs are ones we've seen before (mainly from A NIGHT TO REMEMBER or from YouTube and, Ebay, and online sources) but a few I haven't seen before.

This is a little disappointing to me. I would have thought that the compilers would have selected many more never-before-seen photographs from private sources, especially J. B. Elliott and/or Dr. Fujita (via Texas Tech?). Are there any hints that the six-part summaries will have some of these “exclusive” photographs? There must be much more out there that a diligent researcher, especially for pay, could uncover. Of course I am not detracting from the rest of the information that the article(s) contain, which is likely to be quite detailed and thorough (I myself do not have access to it). And I am sure that the researchers did as much as they could with available resources.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

This is a little disappointing to me. I would have thought that the compilers would have selected many more never-before-seen photographs from private sources, especially J. B. Elliott and/or Dr. Fujita (via Texas Tech?). Are there any hints that the six-part summaries will have some of these “exclusive” photographs? There must be much more out there that a diligent researcher, especially for pay, could uncover. Of course I am not detracting from the rest of the information that the article(s) contain, which is likely to be quite detailed and thorough (I myself do not have access to it). And I am sure that the researchers did as much as they could with available resources.

There will be more photographs in the full 6-part series when it's complete, I'm not worried. They say they'll go into more detail about each and every damage point in the city of Guin and likely as many outside of it as they can. Lots of the stuff they got is unearthed from Texas Tech archives and likely the first time it'll be seen digitally by people. Amazing how much info on this thing was hidden for decades.

 

[csx1985]

I thought the audio clip was quite impressive. Very much looking forward to the rest of the article. The Texas Tech archives must definitely be a gold mine for us tornado history enthusiasts.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

I thought the audio clip was quite impressive. Very much looking forward to the rest of the article. The Texas Tech archives must definitely be a gold mine for us tornado history enthusiasts.

The audio clip reminded me of this from Hackleburg:

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Free overview of Guin is now available:

Guin, AL F5 Tornado – April 3, 1974 – Tornado Talk

www.tornadotalk.com

Also I found this on James Spann's FB; supposedly it's a picture of the Guin tornado. I have no idea what to make of it:

 

[andyhb]

40th anniversary of the Carolinas Outbreak today as well.

 

[MNTornadoGuy]

Free overview of Guin is now available:

Guin, AL F5 Tornado – April 3, 1974 – Tornado Talk

www.tornadotalk.com

Also I found this on James Spann's FB; supposedly it's a picture of the Guin tornado. I have no idea what to make of it:

View attachment 24479

That is not from Guin. I've seen that photo posted many times on Facebook claiming it a photo from a historical storm. For example I've seen it used for Hurricane Carla and other 1974 tornadoes.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

That is not from Guin. I've seen that photo posted many times on Facebook claiming it a photo from a historical storm. For example I've seen it used for Hurricane Carla and other 1974 tornadoes.

Figures. What is it from lol?

 

[MNTornadoGuy]

Figures. What is it from lol?

It might be some photoshop creation, I have no idea.

 

[MNTornadoGuy]

Photos of probable F5 damage from Xenia. Source is the Dayton Daily photo archive.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

More:

The rest of the photos I was able to get were all from Xenia. Not really anything we haven't seen before, but I'll post them in a bit anyway.

The crumpled radio towers might be from Guin. In the free summary on TornadoTalk it mentions it doing this to radio towers near the end of its path. It dissipated in Morgan County I know.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

View attachment 24480View attachment 24481View attachment 24482
Photos of probable F5 damage from Xenia. Source is the Dayton Daily photo archive.

Check out Loco's stuff on Xenia, pretty impressive:

Significant Tornado Events

Yeah, amazing how much info can be found on it now since 2014 or so (the 40th anniversary of it and the outbreak it was from). I have a feeling 4/3/2024 there's gonna be a ton of damage photos posted of it on either NWS or TornadoTalk will do a fantastic article on it with a ton of color...

talkweather.com

Significant Tornado Events

Yeah, amazing how much info can be found on it now since 2014 or so (the 40th anniversary of it and the outbreak it was from). I have a feeling 4/3/2024 there's gonna be a ton of damage photos posted of it on either NWS or TornadoTalk will do a fantastic article on it with a ton of color...

talkweather.com

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

According to Twitter this is the remains of the Guin Mobile Home Plant. If so, it's pretty clear that some clean-up has occurred.
It definitely looks like the area around the plant based on black and white pictures I've seen of damage.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Since 4/27/11 is also coming up, I'd like to share some photos from it I haven't seen before (or at least in a long while).

These 2 two documenting horizontal vortices, one from Tuscaloosa and one from another location in Alabama:



Aerial imagery from Smithville. Amazing how defined this thing's core is:






Hackleburg. Multiple trees that are as thoroughly debarked as can be:

 

[TH2002]

Since 4/27/11 is also coming up, I'd like to share some photos from it I haven't seen before (or at least in a long while).

These 2 two documenting horizontal vortices, one from Tuscaloosa and one from another location in Alabama:

View attachment 24484View attachment 24485

Aerial imagery from Smithville. Amazing how defined this thing's core is:


View attachment 24486



Hackleburg. Multiple trees that are as thoroughly debarked as can be:


View attachment 24487

I'm not 100% positive, but I believe that first photo of horizontal vortices is from the Cullman-Arab EF4.

 

[TH2002]

Also, may be a bit controversial, but to be honest I consider Brandenburg to have been the strongest tornado of the '74 Super Outbreak, not Guin. I'll never not be impressed by the fact that a well-built home in Brandenburg actually had its poured concrete basement walls partially caved in. I can still say with 100% confidence that Guin was not far behind and definitely deserved its F5 rating though, and it's amazing that TornadoTalk uncovered an actual audio recording of the tornado after all these years.

Unrelated to the 1974 and 2011 Super Outbreak related discussions, but I came across this photo @locomusic01 posted a while back from the Coldwater Lake tornado from Palm Sunday 1965. The fact this home had anchor bolts gives further credence to my belief that this particular tornado absolutely deserved an F5 rating, along with others from the same outbreak:

But at least they made John Robinson proud...

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Also, may be a bit controversial, but to be honest I consider Brandenburg to have been the strongest tornado of the '74 Super Outbreak, not Guin. I'll never not be impressed by the fact that a well-built home in Brandenburg actually had its poured concrete basement walls partially caved in. I can still say with 100% confidence that Guin was not far behind and definitely deserved its F5 rating though, and it's amazing that TornadoTalk uncovered an actual audio recording of the tornado after all these years.

Unrelated to the 1974 and 2011 Super Outbreak related discussions, but I came across this photo @locomusic01 posted a while back from the Coldwater Lake tornado from Palm Sunday 1965. The fact this home had anchor bolts gives further credence to my belief that this particular tornado absolutely deserved an F5 rating, along with others from the same outbreak:

But at least they made John Robinson proud...

I can't wait until all 6 parts of the Guin article are done on TornadoTalk, then we'll be able to know for sure just how powerful it was. There's more photographs of Brandenburg damage but not from Guin so we have to wait until TornadoTalk finishes their article on it to know for sure. Grazulis always considered this thing to be extremely powerful; it was the deadliest tornado in Alabama since the 1932 Union Grove/Cox, AL tornado. The total fatality rate for Guin was 30, over half of the fatalities were in Guin alone, the majority were concentrated in a small residential area, which is something you only see with high-end events.
As a side note, Brandenburg was powerful but still nothing like Smithville. I wonder if TornadoTalk will have any pictures from 4/3/74 that resemble Smithville (either from Guin or the Tanner tornadoes).

Also audio of Guin was available here previously, TornadoTalk definitely has a higher quality though:

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Time to post Guin pics, some have been posted here before, some not, lots are from newspapers.com or ABC 33/40 articles. These demonstratre ground scouring, tree debarking, poles or trees snapped off low to ground level and debris granulation.

 

[Casuarina Head]

Check out Loco's stuff on Xenia, pretty impressive:

Significant Tornado Events

Yeah, amazing how much info can be found on it now since 2014 or so (the 40th anniversary of it and the outbreak it was from). I have a feeling 4/3/2024 there's gonna be a ton of damage photos posted of it on either NWS or TornadoTalk will do a fantastic article on it with a ton of color...

talkweather.com

Significant Tornado Events

Yeah, amazing how much info can be found on it now since 2014 or so (the 40th anniversary of it and the outbreak it was from). I have a feeling 4/3/2024 there's gonna be a ton of damage photos posted of it on either NWS or TornadoTalk will do a fantastic article on it with a ton of color...

talkweather.com

Honestly, the wind-rowing between McKinley and Arrowhead Elementary Schools is almost reminiscent of Andover’s, though perhaps not as extreme. The first and fifth images in the first link show an extreme degree of granulation, along with some debarking of low-lying shrubbery. This degree of granulation and debarking of shrubs often occurs in the most intense tornadoes. Some localised, patchy ground scouring seems to have occurred as well, maybe more intense than has been expected, though it only occurred in spots. While I am not willing to declare Xenia the most violent of 3 April’s tornadoes, I do think there is enough contextual evidence to indicate that it was a solid F5, and not necessarily a low-end one. The fact that the most intense DIs occurred in a limited area may have led people to underestimate its actual intensity (the same can be argued for some of the other violent tornadoes on 3 April—i.e., Depauw, Sayler Park, Tanner #1/2, and, until recently, Guin—including some of the lesser-known F4s, like Hamburg, Murphy, and probably several others).

Some of Loco’s other images include a photograph (number one) showing rather intense scouring/debarking from one of the Tanner tornadoes. Interestingly, it may have been taken in Madison Co., even though Tanner #1 only briefly entered the county before dissipating. Maybe @locomusic01 could clarify whether this was indeed taken in Madison Co. If so, then maybe it was from Tanner #2 rather than #1. What is interesting about Tanner #2 is the fact that, though Dr. Fujita’s team assigned an F4 rating, it produced a consistent F3-F4 contour along virtually its entire path before dissipation, per the survey team’s map. This is something that has only been observed in some top-tier long-trackers like the Tri-State, Woodward, Hackleburg, Mayfield, etc. If so, even though some have disputed the official F5 rating, I suspect that there likely were some swaths of F5 DIs along the path that were not recorded, even if only in a small area or two. Maybe it was another Tuscaloosa-type situation, in which the peak did not coincide with conventional DIs? All in all, I think it is quite likely that both Tanner tornadoes were fully capable of F5 damage at one point or another.

All things considered, I think that the more information comes out, the clearer is the fact that Dr. Fujita’s surveys were more on the mark than some might have thought: not only do most or all of the F5s seem to have merited their ratings, but also a lot of the F4s, and there are indications that some of the F3s were fully capable of even more intense damage, especially several of the lesser-known F3s in TN, the Meadow Bridge WV event, Decatur IL, etc. Probably some of the lesser-known F4s were also capable of F5 damage that was not able to be recorded due to various constraints. Brandenburg, Guin, Xenia, and one or both of the Tanner tornadoes may have been just a notch or two below Smithville in intensity. Sayler Park also seems to have done some localised ground scouring and debarking, though it does not seem to have been as intense as the other three. There are anecdotal reports from newspapers that suggest some impressive vegetative damage in Depauw, too. All in all, at least six of the seven F5s on 3 Apr (Brandenburg, Guin, Xenia, Tanner #1/2) probably deserved their ratings, and even if Sayler Park and Depauw are ruled out, there are F5 candidates such as Hamburg and Murphy (though trees cannot be used as F5 DIs, some of the inflow-swirls and possible scouring in densely-forested areas suggests a very violent tornado).

 

[Casuarina Head]

Also, may be a bit controversial, but to be honest I consider Brandenburg to have been the strongest tornado of the '74 Super Outbreak, not Guin. I'll never not be impressed by the fact that a well-built home in Brandenburg actually had its poured concrete basement walls partially caved in. I can still say with 100% confidence that Guin was not far behind and definitely deserved its F5 rating though, and it's amazing that TornadoTalk uncovered an actual audio recording of the tornado after all these years.

Unrelated to the 1974 and 2011 Super Outbreak related discussions, but I came across this photo @locomusic01 posted a while back from the Coldwater Lake tornado from Palm Sunday 1965. The fact this home had anchor bolts gives further credence to my belief that this particular tornado absolutely deserved an F5 rating, along with others from the same outbreak:

But at least they made John Robinson proud...

Re: Palm Sunday: some of the damage from Crystal Lake, Rockaway, Lebanon/Sheridan, and Rainbow Lake was also rather impressive. Crystal Lake swept away anchor-bolted (and possibly newly-built?) homes as well. Rockaway tore up concrete bridge-railings, tossed heavy machinery, debarked trees and low-lying shrubbery, and may have done some ground scouring. Lebanon/Sheridan produced some rather noteworthy granulation, partial debarking of low-lying shrubbery, and possible (intense?) ground scouring. Rainbow Lake seems to have done some scouring and debarking of low-lying vegetation, along with intense vehicular damage. (Some have mentioned Toledo as another F5 candidate, but I haven’t personally seen other DIs to corroborate the impacts on housing, which may have been subpar in construction.)

Dunlap, Pittsfield, and Coldwater Lake/Manitou Beach #1 seem to have been fairly clear-cut F5s, or capable of F5 damage. The fact that Dunlap stubbed or debarked mature trees—which are typically harder to debark in Illinois than some other regions—is impressive, along with the other DIs such as granulation, intense ground scouring and wind-rowing, and mangling of a John Deere. Pittsfield also did extreme damage to vehicles, along with debarking and possible scouring. All in all, there were probably six to eight F5s or F5 candidates on Palm Sunday, not counting some lesser-documented events such as the Tipton/Springbrook IA F4(+?).

As a side note, Brandenburg was powerful but still nothing like Smithville.

I do think Brandenburg had some characteristics in common with Smithville: the narrow contour of intense damage, the debarking/shredding of low-lying shrubbery, locally intense scouring, intense wind-rowing, and extreme vehicular damage. The fact that it tore out a poured concrete basement-wall is not only impressive in itself, but also noteworthy for the photographic evidence that the home itself was not in a densely urbanised area or in close proximity to other structures (a bit like the Parkersburg residence that also sustained the breaking of its poured-concrete basement wall). I suspect that Brandenburg was capable, however briefly, of being almost on a par with Smithville and similarly top-tier events like Parkersburg, Joplin, Chapman, or Chandler.