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TH2002

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It swept away a row of newly built, anchored homes and was considered "near-F5" and the strongest tornado in Louisiana state history by Grazulis.
Storm Data and Grazulis specifically mention that the homes in LaPlace were nailed, not bolted to their foundations.

I also feel the aforementioned tree damage that the Bridgton, ME tornado caused should have put it solidly in the EF2 or maybe EF3 range, but EF4? No way.
 

TH2002

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Barnesville is another good candidate for a Georgia EF5, and was no doubt at least an EF4; that one swept away multiple homes including one well-built brick home and caused impressive contextual damage including debarking of large trees and shrubs.
 
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Barnesville is another good candidate for a Georgia EF5, and was no doubt at least an EF4; that one swept away multiple homes including one well-built brick home and caused impressive contextual damage including debarking of large trees and shrubs.
I have that currently at highest possible EF4.
 

MNTornadoGuy

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I will also add that the official California "F3 tornadoes" in the NOAA database are probably dubious; Grazulis lists no tornadoes on 8/16/1973 or 2/9/1978, and the fact that there's literally ZERO contemporary documentation of those events tells me that they were likely not even tornadoes, let alone ones of F3 intensity. California DOES have a handful of genuine F2/EF2 tornadoes however, with some of the more recent ones being the 5/22/2008 Perris and 5/25/2011 Oroville tornadoes.

If there's any candidate for a true California F3 tornado, the July 1911 El Centro storm could certainly be it, but there's simply too much uncertainty. The "storm of cyclonic violence" swept through El Centro's business district, killing two people and injuring many others. Homes and businesses were unroofed and others were "demolished"; buildings that collapsed entirely included a church, a warehouse and a mill among others. The storm lasted "only a few minutes", and debris was carried for at least two blocks.

Grazulis again lists no California tornadoes in July 1911, but there is at least some contemporary documentation including a July 17 article from The Salt Lake Evening Telegram, and another from The San Bernardino Sun on July 27:
View attachment 14682

July 1911 would have put this event at the peak of monsoon season, and while it is rare to occur, monsoonal thunderstorms in this region can and have been known to intensify into supercells. The "storm of cyclonic violence" wording, and the fact that the SB Sun article specifically calls the event a tornado does give credence to this storm being a true tornado, but without further evidence I can't make the call.

Whatever the case, there's no doubt that a violent storm, whether it was a true tornado, a downburst or simply very severe straight line thunderstorm winds, wreaked havoc on El Centro that day.
There was also the August 1927 Eastside Canal tornado that struck the Salton Lake valley. It killed 2 people who died in a house that was completely destroyed.
 

TH2002

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There was also the August 1927 Eastside Canal tornado that struck the Salton Lake valley. It killed 2 people who died in a house that was completely destroyed.
Thanks for the mention, completely missed that one somehow. Since that's another one Grazulis makes no mention of; I'll have to see what I can dig up on it.
 

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I 100% believe Yazoo City had EF5 potential. There was at least one large, likely well-built home reduced to its foundation by the tornado, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were several more, but the damage that this thing caused beyond Yazoo City limits is very poorly documented.
View attachment 14668
I'd say people all have different interpretation when it comes to the question "what damage could earn this tor an EF5 rating" and the greatest divergence comes around the house damage, like anchoring fashion, building materials, etc. But one thing for sure is the contextual part could help us evaluate the residence damage more accurately cuz it seems like the discrepancies between contexual damage among chasers are definitely smaller than for house damage. So, what contexual could put one to EF5, like trees completely debarked or only the tree trunk remaining, vehicles thrown hundreds yards away the beyong recognition, ground severly scoured, etc.
In this pic, one thing that nagging me is that there're still lots branches remaining for those hardwood trees behind the slab(more like hardwood than softwood), I can't tell if there's any debarking right there but it's hard for one to earn EF5 if trees have so many branches remaining like that.
As for the Yazoo city case, I'd believe it's more like a mid EF4 for the current available info, it's hard to say it is EF5 or not cuz it may did something like Bassfield did to that 190mph house in rural area throughout the 149mi path with that nasty radar present, but judging from the info available for the time being, no way could it have EF5.
 

eric11

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I'd say people all have different interpretation when it comes to the question "what damage could earn this tor an EF5 rating" and the greatest divergence comes around the house damage, like anchoring fashion, building materials, etc. But one thing for sure is the contextual part could help us evaluate the residence damage more accurately cuz it seems like the discrepancies between contexual damage among chasers are definitely smaller than for house damage. So, what contexual could put one to EF5, like trees completely debarked or only the tree trunk remaining, vehicles thrown hundreds yards away the beyong recognition, ground severly scoured, etc.
In this pic, one thing that nagging me is that there're still lots branches remaining for those hardwood trees behind the slab(more like hardwood than softwood), I can't tell if there's any debarking right there but it's hard for one to earn EF5 if trees have so many branches remaining like that.
As for the Yazoo city case, I'd believe it's more like a mid EF4 for the current available info, it's hard to say it is EF5 or not cuz it may did something like Bassfield did to that 190mph house in rural area throughout the 149mi path with that nasty radar present, but judging from the info available for the time being, no way could it have EF5.
Also found interesting ground scouring from the Yazoo city tornado
IMG_20220623_010019.jpgIMG_20220623_010028.jpg

This might the "debarked tree" TH mentioned
IMG_20220623_005954.jpg
 

TH2002

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I'd say people all have different interpretation when it comes to the question "what damage could earn this tor an EF5 rating" and the greatest divergence comes around the house damage, like anchoring fashion, building materials, etc. But one thing for sure is the contextual part could help us evaluate the residence damage more accurately cuz it seems like the discrepancies between contexual damage among chasers are definitely smaller than for house damage. So, what contexual could put one to EF5, like trees completely debarked or only the tree trunk remaining, vehicles thrown hundreds yards away the beyong recognition, ground severly scoured, etc.
In this pic, one thing that nagging me is that there're still lots branches remaining for those hardwood trees behind the slab(more like hardwood than softwood), I can't tell if there's any debarking right there but it's hard for one to earn EF5 if trees have so many branches remaining like that.
As for the Yazoo city case, I'd believe it's more like a mid EF4 for the current available info, it's hard to say it is EF5 or not cuz it may did something like Bassfield did to that 190mph house in rural area throughout the 149mi path with that nasty radar present, but judging from the info available for the time being, no way could it have EF5.
I guess I should have mentioned that my point this entire time was never that Yazoo City is a clear cut EF5. It's more a case of a tornado not hitting anything substantial at its peak intensity; yes the damage found in Yazoo City wasn't indicative of EF5 strength, but the violent core likely missed the city limits entirely (correct me if I'm wrong on this).

I'll give you that I haven't seen any context from the tornado that suggests anything above mid EF4 or so (except the scouring photos you just posted maybe?) but again, my point is that the tornado probably didn't hit anything at peak intensity, and if it did it wasn't documented.
 

warneagle

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The only Georgia tornado I really think is defensible as an E/F5 is Ringgold. I don't even know that Americus would be an EF4, much less an EF5. I saw some of the Barnesville damage path in person and I think you could credibly argue for EF4 there but I'm not sure it even hit any true EF5 damage indicators since most of its life was spent over rural parts of west-central Georgia. I don't really think arguing something from the Enigma Outbreak is possible because damage reports from 1884 just aren't reliable enough (and construction standards in the rural south at that time were likely very poor). Retroactively ranking storms from the pre-1950 era is kind of problematic in general aside from very obvious, well-documented cases (Sherman, New Richmond, Tri-State, etc.). I mean, you can say whatever you want about it, I just don't think there's going to be any real rigor to it.
 

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Also Phiul lol
Yeah, I'm old-fashioned and type my siggy, sometimes incorrectly. The tornado you said qualified SC for an F5 wasn't that strong anywhere here even if it was in NC. By your kind of logic almost all states would be in the 5 range because damage in another state made it so.

Lol returned.

Phil
 

TH2002

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The only Georgia tornado I really think is defensible as an E/F5 is Ringgold. I don't even know that Americus would be an EF4, much less an EF5. I saw some of the Barnesville damage path in person and I think you could credibly argue for EF4 there but I'm not sure it even hit any true EF5 damage indicators since most of its life was spent over rural parts of west-central Georgia. I don't really think arguing something from the Enigma Outbreak is possible because damage reports from 1884 just aren't reliable enough (and construction standards in the rural south at that time were likely very poor). Retroactively ranking storms from the pre-1950 era is kind of problematic in general aside from very obvious, well-documented cases (Sherman, New Richmond, Tri-State, etc.). I mean, you can say whatever you want about it, I just don't think there's going to be any real rigor to it.
Personally I would call Barnesville high-end EF4, but I think one could make a case for marginal to low EF5 with that one since there were one or two well built homes swept away along the path:
Barnesville-damage-brick-home.JPG

No doubt Ringgold is GA's strongest EF5 candidate though. I do wish there were more ground level views of the homes that were swept away along Cherokee Valley Road, and though most of them were on block foundations there were a couple on poured slabs.
 
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Yeah, I'm old-fashioned and type my siggy, sometimes incorrectly. The tornado you said qualified SC for an F5 wasn't that strong anywhere here even if it was in NC. By your kind of logic almost all states would be in the 5 range because damage in another state made it so.

Lol returned.

Phil
I count them as the state they formed in, not the state they did their worst damage in. PA is still purple because of Moshannon and Kane.
 

Sawmaster

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I count them as the state they formed in, not the state they did their worst damage in. PA is still purple because of Moshannon and Kane.
That's absurd and indefensible. So by your logic SC has never suffered F5 damage, yet it's had an F5. Might as well mark some of those states EF6, maybe EF7 which would be equally believable. Who needs the truth when you can make it anything you want it to be. Mus be da ganja mon...,

Phil
 
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That's absurd and indefensible. So by your logic SC has never suffered F5 damage, yet it's had an F5. Might as well mark some of those states EF6, maybe EF7 which would be equally believable. Who needs the truth when you can make it anything you want it to be. Mus be da ganja mon...,

Phil
Sigh, yes. I only did that rule after making the map, when I remembered Capitol did all it's extreme damage in SD, yet I had colored MT EF5.

I'll shut up now. Posting the map here was a mistake.
 

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Had anything here even approached 5 level I'd have given you the benefit of the doubt, but we haven't even been halfway close. That coming from someone who believes a lot of tornadoes are under-rated. Credibility matters.

Phil
 

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In doing more research, it turns out that the real problem in New Richmond was an appalling lack of cannons.

ETbKbKh.jpg
 
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