It's pretty unthinkable for me that WI can manage to produce tornado as strong as New Richmond. It's hard to find anything similar in last 100 years. Even Barneveld 1984 was not on the same level of New Richmond imho.
Significant Tornado Events (13 Viewers)
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buckeye05
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Some rather impressive contextual damage here. Photo #4 shows not only grass scouring, but significant granulation of structural debris. That toothpick-like splintering of lumber is something I associate with pretty violent tornado events. High-end F4 sounds very much justified. If any of those homes were well-anchored, I'd say F5 should have at least been discussed.
I've heard of this event, but didn't realize how intense the damage was.
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SGFmoTwister
Member
Thank you so much for posting this. I was about a mile away from the impacted area. Very scary to an 11-year old who didn't think tornadoes could happen the day after Thanksgiving. Interesting that it was high-end F4. Local media never really reported that information afterward. I knew it had to be quite strong as those were recent well-built expensive houses it blew away like matchsticks. It was probably like the recent Andover twister in appearance (drill bit-type), only stronger. We had no warning and the sirens didn't go off as the tornado hadn't been picked up on radar.
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"The American Red Cross said 53 homes were destroyed and another 157 were damaged. Greene County building regulations supervisor Jim Bresee estimated the storm did at least $5 million to $8 million worth of damage. That's taking homes, not all damaged property, into consideration," he said. "So far I've seen at least 18 Cadillacs and BMWs flattened."
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Sawmaster
Member
Every tornado is unique so direct comparisons only tell part of the story. While Hacklburg wasn't at full strength along it's entire path, it was close to that along much or most of it. Mayfield was closer to it's fullstrength along most of it's path, but it also hit more structures and towns making strength assessment easier. Hackleburg, being in a more rural environment and at a time when the workload of surveying was overwhelming, didn't get that level of scrutiny, nor was it done as soon afterward. Clean-up was well underway in parts of Hackleburg before anyone arrived, and that definitely affected the results..
So for me, Hackleburg was the more significant event almost entirely due to it's path length. Prior to it there had been much contention of a single tornado being able to last that far which it proved without doubt could happen. It changed things in ways Mayfield didn't.
Phil
So for me, Hackleburg was the more significant event almost entirely due to it's path length. Prior to it there had been much contention of a single tornado being able to last that far which it proved without doubt could happen. It changed things in ways Mayfield didn't.
Phil
Lake Martin EF4
Member
Here to cause all sorts of controversy is my map of every state's highest ranked tornado based on my personal analysis.
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Lake Martin EF4
Member
By my analysis, I have the Red Springs, Mount Olive and Greenville tornadoes (all 1984) at F5.
Sawmaster
Member
Greenville? I lived there most of that year and don't remember anything that strong or even close. My Skywarn work and training came loong after that time, and the biggest they spoke of in the upstate was an F4 flattening a subdivision in the greater Spartanburg area (72 or 74?) when the question came up of what the strongest tornado was that we've ever had here. Guess it's time to do some digging!
Phil
Phil
warneagle
Member
I assume your pick for Georgia is Ringgold?
Western_KS_Wx
Member
Your pick for Wyoming is the 1987 Teton Wilderness tornado isn’t it? Guessing Montana is the 2018 Capitol tornado but I’m very unsure about what Colorado could possibly be lol, same with Maryland.
TH2002
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Curious to know what your Colorado F5 is; my only guess is Thurman, or is it another tornado I've never heard of? Would also like to know which tornado puts Maine in the EF4 category.
As far as upgrades go, I feel an argument could be made for EF4 for Tuba City AZ 2010, as the wind speed in that one was recently upgraded to 165MPH (putting it at the very top of EF3). I also feel a strong case can be made for Shinnston WV 1944 having been an F5; some also feel the brief but violent 10/18/90 Montgomery NJ tornado deserved an F4 rating as three homes were leveled, one of which was reduced to its basement.
Sawmaster
Member
Got any details on the Greenville twister I can use to zero in? The NWSGSP site doesn't load and the State EMD records show only a F4 in Landrum 1973 (which is probably the one I know about) Greenville metro area has seen 2's and 3's but nothing higher.; Landrum is closer to Spartanburg and more considered part of that town.
Phil
Phil
Sawmaster
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The tornado you're referring to was Greenville NORTH Carolina. Check your data.
Phiul
TH2002
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I will also add that the official California "F3 tornadoes" in the NOAA database are probably dubious; Grazulis lists no tornadoes on 8/16/1973 or 2/9/1978, and the fact that there's literally ZERO contemporary documentation of those events tells me that they were likely not even tornadoes, let alone ones of F3 intensity. California DOES have a handful of genuine F2/EF2 tornadoes however, with some of the more recent ones being the 5/22/2008 Perris and 5/25/2011 Oroville tornadoes.
If there's any candidate for a true California F3 tornado, the July 1911 El Centro storm could certainly be it, but there's simply too much uncertainty. The "storm of cyclonic violence" swept through El Centro's business district, killing two people and injuring many others. Homes and businesses were unroofed and others were "demolished"; buildings that collapsed entirely included a church, a warehouse and a mill among others. The storm lasted "only a few minutes", and debris was carried for at least two blocks.
Grazulis again lists no California tornadoes in July 1911, but there is at least some contemporary documentation including a July 17 article from The Salt Lake Evening Telegram, and another from The San Bernardino Sun on July 27:
July 1911 would have put this event at the peak of monsoon season, and while it is rare to occur, monsoonal thunderstorms in this region can and have been known to intensify into supercells. The "storm of cyclonic violence" wording, and the fact that the SB Sun article specifically calls the event a tornado does give credence to this storm being a true tornado, but without further evidence I can't make the call.
Whatever the case, there's no doubt that a violent storm, whether it was a true tornado, a downburst or simply very severe straight line thunderstorm winds, wreaked havoc on El Centro that day.
If there's any candidate for a true California F3 tornado, the July 1911 El Centro storm could certainly be it, but there's simply too much uncertainty. The "storm of cyclonic violence" swept through El Centro's business district, killing two people and injuring many others. Homes and businesses were unroofed and others were "demolished"; buildings that collapsed entirely included a church, a warehouse and a mill among others. The storm lasted "only a few minutes", and debris was carried for at least two blocks.
Grazulis again lists no California tornadoes in July 1911, but there is at least some contemporary documentation including a July 17 article from The Salt Lake Evening Telegram, and another from The San Bernardino Sun on July 27:
July 1911 would have put this event at the peak of monsoon season, and while it is rare to occur, monsoonal thunderstorms in this region can and have been known to intensify into supercells. The "storm of cyclonic violence" wording, and the fact that the SB Sun article specifically calls the event a tornado does give credence to this storm being a true tornado, but without further evidence I can't make the call.
Whatever the case, there's no doubt that a violent storm, whether it was a true tornado, a downburst or simply very severe straight line thunderstorm winds, wreaked havoc on El Centro that day.
I'd be very interested to see what the possible F5s in Colorado and Montana are.
Speaking of states without them, I think it's worth noting that Louisiana has only had one official F5, on Feb 21 1971. Not only did that probably not cause actual F5 damage due to frailty of the buildings swept away, but from what little I can find it seems the supposed F5 damage may only have been in MS, at Inverness.
That leaves a question for the more knowledgeable folks on this board: is there any tornado that has potentially caused F5/EF5 damage in LA?
Also a comment that is sure to inflame a little, but worth asking - there was that hoo-ha a few weeks ago when Grazulis listed Vilonia as EF5 then said he'd be walking it back. Is he going to be consistent and follow the official ratings on tornadoes officially listed as F5 but he thinks were F4, like Inverness or Hudsonville?
Speaking of states without them, I think it's worth noting that Louisiana has only had one official F5, on Feb 21 1971. Not only did that probably not cause actual F5 damage due to frailty of the buildings swept away, but from what little I can find it seems the supposed F5 damage may only have been in MS, at Inverness.
That leaves a question for the more knowledgeable folks on this board: is there any tornado that has potentially caused F5/EF5 damage in LA?
Also a comment that is sure to inflame a little, but worth asking - there was that hoo-ha a few weeks ago when Grazulis listed Vilonia as EF5 then said he'd be walking it back. Is he going to be consistent and follow the official ratings on tornadoes officially listed as F5 but he thinks were F4, like Inverness or Hudsonville?
Lake Martin EF4
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Yes, and also one from the Enigma Outbreak. Also Americus.
Wyoming and Montana are correct. Colorado, like TH said, is Thurman. Maryland is La Plata.
Thurman is correct, yes. As for Maine...
Correct. I was just listing the 1984 Carolinas Outbreak tornadoes I have at F5. Bennettsville-Red Springs started in SC and is the reasoning behind F5 South Carolina on the map.
Also Phiul lol
Colorado and Montana are Thurman and Capitol, as stated above.
Louisiana is on the map because of both that F5 in 1971, and also LaPlace 1983.
warneagle
Member
I think Ringgold is a defensible pick (I know some people were surprised it was only rated EF4 at the time), but I'm skeptical about Americus and would want to see some evidence for that.
Lake Martin EF4
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The asphalt scouring is the reasoning behind EF5 Americus.