Significant Tornado Events

[eric11]

For the Coleridge eight years anniversary, here're some damage photos I haven't posted before

 

[SouthFLwx]

For the Coleridge eight years anniversary, here're some damage photos I haven't posted before
View attachment 14651View attachment 14652View attachment 14653View attachment 14654View attachment 14655
View attachment 14656

Wonder what that first pic is.

 

[TH2002]

Here's a aerial view of the Wakefield's damage track, clear cut ground scouring and some vague cycloidal marks, definitely violent but the damage extent didn't support for EF5.
View attachment 14650
There're only two EF4 damage points on kml, one is the Pic three in your post, the other one might be this house
View attachment 14649

I've always considered Wakefield to have been the weakest of the Pilger family, and while that opinion still stands it's also easily the most poorly documented. No doubt it was a violent tornado, but I can't call it EF5 myself.
I also still consider Stanton to have been the most violent (the contextual damage screamed nothing but EF5) though I honestly have to say that after seeing some of these pictures, both of the Pilger tornadoes weren't far behind.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Surprised nothing's been posted on this tornado before, the 1977 Smithfield tornado, a notably short-lived Dixie F5 that went through the Birmingham metro area. I'd love to get more colorized photos of damage from this thing along with a photograph of the dump trucks that were carried off a ridge and (according to Grazulis) 'hurled like matchsticks' from I-65.
Note the debarked trees in background:




Crushed car:



Some debarked trees with a car that appears to be missing all doors and tires:





B&W damage aerials of the ridge with F5 damage. Slab after slab:







Note severely debarked tree in foreground:







Wind-rowing:

 

[locomusic01]

A bit random, but in terms of pre-1950 Dixie events, what do you think is the most significant in terms of overall violence and fatalities? A bit of a trick question I suppose given how difficult it is to find damage photographs and reliable fatality counts from older events, but just wondering. For me it's a tie between 1884 Enigma and April 1920, due to how obscure they are and yet how historically significant they undoubtedly were.

Yeah, unfortunately we'll probably never have a full picture of any of those old events, which sucks. I think you could probably make a good case for any of 2/19/1884, 4/20/1920 or 3/21/1932 depending on your criteria. The 1920 outbreak might've had the most impressive individual tornadoes IMO. The Enigma Outbreak was probably the biggest and had a ridiculous number of killer tornadoes. I might go with the 1932 outbreak as far as the overall impact, but the events are so poorly documented that it's all but impossible to say.

I'm sure I've said it before, but I'd give anything to be able to spend a year or two just digging through old archives throughout the South (especially Alabama) and seeing what I could come up with on those events. And 4/24/1908 for good measure.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Yeah, unfortunately we'll probably never have a full picture of any of those old events, which sucks. I think you could probably make a good case for any of 2/19/1884, 4/20/1920 or 3/21/1932 depending on your criteria. The 1920 outbreak might've had the most impressive individual tornadoes IMO. The Enigma Outbreak was probably the biggest and had a ridiculous number of killer tornadoes. I might go with the 1932 outbreak as far as the overall impact, but the events are so poorly documented that it's all but impossible to say.

I'm sure I've said it before, but I'd give anything to be able to spend a year or two just digging through old archives throughout the South (especially Alabama) and seeing what I could come up with on those events. And 4/24/1908 for good measure.

What do you think is the most reliable estimate for fatalities from 1884 Enigma, based on your research? I know the minimum is 178, but it's probably at least triple that in reality.
4/20/1920 strikes me as being 4/27/11 but with hardly any documentation outside of MS or AL.

 

[DetectiveWX]

Regarding the US/CAN '85 outbreak, reading the article, I can envision the radar being similar to the Armageddon round of 4/27 in MS/AL/ E TN/ N. GA. Classic supercells properly spaced.

 

[locomusic01]

What do you think is the most reliable estimate for fatalities from 1884 Enigma, based on your research? I know the minimum is 178, but it's probably at least triple that in reality.
4/20/1920 strikes me as being 4/27/11 but with hardly any documentation outside of MS or AL.

Not sure it's even possible to make a reliable estimate tbh. I think somewhere around 300 is probably a safe lower bound, but how much higher it could've gone than that is anyone's guess.

Obviously the big issue is that Black deaths were very carelessly documented when they were documented at all. I'd occasionally come across scattered reports of "scores of negroes killed" or "many feared dead" or variations thereof while I was researching my article back in the day, but that's.. not exactly a precise count.

The other big issue is that, even with white victims, there was usually little to no follow-up on the injured. Like, even with 5/31/85 I found at least three people who died much later and were never officially counted, so I can only imagine how often that sort of thing happened back in that era.

I do think the really outrageous estimates (like 800-1200+) are, well, outrageous. But I wouldn't be shocked if the true toll were 400-500. The 1932 outbreak is also worth mentioning in this context because the "official" injury count is gigantic (like almost 2500 IIRC), and it's probably reasonable to assume that some percentage of those people didn't actually survive.

 

[Sawmaster]

In the South many poor whites weren't counted either, and their numbers would be substantial. They'd also miss anyone in remote locations. Then (and to some extent even now) one of the better sources of information on Southern people are Churches, where if they don't have someone there who knows, they can usually point you to them and where they're at. Old Church records will usually note deaths of their members, and if a Church shuts down their records are usually passed on to a nearby affiliated Church. If you ever do realize your research dream don't overlook that info source.

Phil

 

[locomusic01]

In the South many poor whites weren't counted either, and their numbers would be substantial. They'd also miss anyone in remote locations. Then (and to some extent even now) one of the better sources of information on Southern people are Churches, where if they don't have someone there who knows, they can usually point you to them and where they're at. Old Church records will usually note deaths of their members, and if a Church shuts down their records are usually passed on to a nearby affiliated Church. If you ever do realize your research dream don't overlook that info source.

Phil

For sure! I got information on a few people in my Tupelo-Gainesville article from churches. I'm not religious so the thought had never occurred to me before, but someone from the local historical society down there suggested it.

 

[locomusic01]

Regarding the US/CAN '85 outbreak, reading the article, I can envision the radar being similar to the Armageddon round of 4/27 in MS/AL/ E TN/ N. GA. Classic supercells properly spaced.

It was definitely a March of the Supercells situation lol

There are some major time skips in the animation but it gives you some sense of how the event progressed. Some of the supercells were bunched up pretty close together, but they came primarily in three distinct waves (two in OH/PA/NY and one in ON).

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

In the South many poor whites weren't counted either, and their numbers would be substantial. They'd also miss anyone in remote locations. Then (and to some extent even now) one of the better sources of information on Southern people are Churches, where if they don't have someone there who knows, they can usually point you to them and where they're at. Old Church records will usually note deaths of their members, and if a Church shuts down their records are usually passed on to a nearby affiliated Church. If you ever do realize your research dream don't overlook that info source.

Phil

Of course, lots of old churches in rural, remote areas aren't always in service or no longer around (they moved locations, etc.) so that's the other stumbling block.

 

[TH2002]

Sometimes I nerd out over ships, and this isn't the first time I've wondered what a major tornadic waterspout (with EF5 level winds) would do to a large vessel, but this is the first time I've actually done some digging.

I decided to look at some historic examples:

• Perhaps the most extreme example is the September 23, 1555 Grand Harbour of Malta tornado; a fleet of galleys was either capsized or destroyed by the estimated T7 (F3) tornado, killing at least 600 people.
• Natchez 1840 killed many people with the destruction of buildings in the towns of Natchez and Vidalia (48+) and even more died in the destruction of wooden flatboats (269+) that were tossed through the air and either thrown into the ground or impacted the river with such force as to induce rapid sinking. It's likely that another number of boats never made ground contact and simply disintegrated mid-air in the blizzard of high speed debris. A piece of a steamboat window was reportedly carried 30 miles.
• The Whippoorwill tour boat was struck by an F1-rated tornado and capsized in Pomona Lake, Kansas on June 16, 1978 with 16 fatalities.

• The 80-foot sailing yacht Nicorette II was struck by a tornadic waterspout during the 2001 Sydney to Hobart Yacht race, sustaining severe superficial damage but not sinking. 120 mph winds were recorded as the tornado struck the boat.
• The 2007 DeLand tornado sank the Beresford Lady paddle boat:

Perhaps most interesting to me is the 5/11/2008 McIntosh County, GA EF4, another event in the incredibly violent and often overlooked 2008 tornado season. The tornado struck a marine sales and services business at its peak intensity. Boats weighing 4000-8000 pounds a piece and cars alike were tossed hundreds of yards, including an 18 foot boat that was tossed 650 yards, and at least one boat was never found. The building itself was swept clean with metal support beams and their bolts sheared off at foundation level. Some even feel this one deserved an EF5 rating.

There's also the incredible video of the 12/10/2021 "Tri-State" EF4 making a direct hit on a tugboat, though fortunately not at peak intensity. To say the least, can't imagine anything good would have come from that.

I did come up with a hypothesis for what an EF5 tornado could do if it struck a large vessel like the Titanic or Edmund Fitzgerald. Presuming the ship doesn't capsize from the winds alone, the tornado would likely severely damage or destroy all or a large portion of a ship's superstructure.

Could the winds directly cause damage to a ship's hull? That's a definite maybe when talking about a large vessel, but flying debris from other parts of the ship (and nearby structures if this occurred near a shoreline) definitely would, and thus present a HUGE problem if the ship is already listing due to the winds. A capsize and/or sinking would probably be the final result, or at the very least severe damage and partial flooding.

But with that said, I'm no expert on how ships are constructed and that's just my hypothesis. Considering the many unbelievable things we've already seen that demonstrate the incredible strength of these storms, maybe some questions are best left unanswered...

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Sometimes I nerd out over ships, and this isn't the first time I've wondered what a major tornadic waterspout (with EF5 level winds) would do to a large vessel, but this is the first time I've actually done some digging.

I decided to look at some historic examples:

• Perhaps the most extreme example is the September 23, 1555 Grand Harbour of Malta tornado; a fleet of galleys was either capsized or destroyed by the estimated T7 (F3) tornado, killing at least 600 people.
• Natchez 1840 killed many people with the destruction of buildings in the towns of Natchez and Vidalia (48+) and even more died in the destruction of wooden flatboats (269+) that were tossed through the air and either thrown into the ground or impacted the river with such force as to induce rapid sinking. It's likely that another number of boats never made ground contact and simply disintegrated mid-air in the blizzard of high speed debris. A piece of a steamboat window was reportedly carried 30 miles.
• The Whippoorwill tour boat was struck by an F1-rated tornado and capsized in Pomona Lake, Kansas on June 16, 1978 with 16 fatalities.

• The 80-foot sailing yacht Nicorette II was struck by a tornadic waterspout during the 2001 Sydney to Hobart Yacht race, sustaining severe superficial damage but not sinking. 120 mph winds were recorded as the tornado struck the boat.
• The 2007 DeLand tornado sank the Beresford Lady paddle boat:

Perhaps most interesting to me is the 5/11/2008 McIntosh County, GA EF4, another event in the incredibly violent and often overlooked 2008 tornado season. The tornado struck a marine sales and services business at its peak intensity. Boats weighing 4000-8000 pounds a piece and cars alike were tossed hundreds of yards, including an 18 foot boat that was tossed 650 yards, and at least one boat was never found. The building itself was swept clean with metal support beams and their bolts sheared off at foundation level. Some even feel this one deserved an EF5 rating.

There's also the incredible video of the 12/10/2021 "Tri-State" EF4 making a direct hit on a tugboat, though fortunately not at peak intensity. To say the least, can't imagine anything good would have come from that.

I did come up with a hypothesis for what an EF5 tornado could do if it struck a large vessel like the Titanic or Edmund Fitzgerald. Presuming the ship doesn't capsize from the winds alone, the tornado would likely severely damage or destroy all or a large portion of a ship's superstructure.

Could the winds directly cause damage to a ship's hull? That's a definite maybe when talking about a large vessel, but flying debris from other parts of the ship (and nearby structures if this occurred near a shoreline) definitely would, and thus present a HUGE problem if the ship is already listing due to the winds. A capsize and/or sinking would probably be the final result, or at the very least severe damage and partial flooding.

But with that said, I'm no expert on how ships are constructed and that's just my hypothesis. Considering the many unbelievable things we've already seen that demonstrate the incredible strength of these storms, maybe some questions are best left unanswered...

Sayler Park 1974 picked up massive barges and threw them downstream, in terms of notable boats thrown by tornadoes.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

In the South many poor whites weren't counted either, and their numbers would be substantial. They'd also miss anyone in remote locations. Then (and to some extent even now) one of the better sources of information on Southern people are Churches, where if they don't have someone there who knows, they can usually point you to them and where they're at. Old Church records will usually note deaths of their members, and if a Church shuts down their records are usually passed on to a nearby affiliated Church. If you ever do realize your research dream don't overlook that info source.

Phil

Poor whites would be counted more then poor blacks; the difference wouldn't be as substantial with them. Sorry, just had to make a minor nitpick.

 

[Western_KS_Wx]

a bit random but I’m still sort of in shock about the Mayfield tornado and just how mind numbingly historic that event was. The stats on the thing are ridiculous; 165 miles on the ground, almost doubling Kentucky’s old longest tracked record, 1.5 miles wide, 57 deaths 515+ injuries, nearly 3 hours on the ground, and town after town devastated all while occurring in mid December. This was probably the closest example of the Tri-State tornado that we’re going to get. Also likely ranks among the costliest ever recorded still unknown just how costly it was. Vividly remember watching on radar wondering just how long this thing would keep going, how many more communities are going to be wiped out, and just being in awe by what I was witnessing. Anyway that was a lot lol but still hard to wrap my head around that this actually happened, probably won’t see something like this again.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

a bit random but I’m still sort of in shock about the Mayfield tornado and just how mind numbingly historic that event was. The stats on the thing are ridiculous; 165 miles on the ground, almost doubling Kentucky’s old longest tracked record, 1.5 miles wide, 57 deaths 515+ injuries, nearly 3 hours on the ground, and town after town devastated all while occurring in mid December. This was probably the closest example of the Tri-State tornado that we’re going to get. Also likely ranks among the costliest ever recorded still unknown just how costly it was. Vividly remember watching on radar wondering just how long this thing would keep going, how many more communities are going to be wiped out, and just being in awe by what I was witnessing. Anyway that was a lot lol but still hard to wrap my head around that this actually happened, probably won’t see something like this again.

View attachment 14666
View attachment 14667

There's also Yazoo City, MS from 2010 but that thing somehow managed to only scrape one city and spent most of its life in unpopulated forestland. Tri-State was way more violent then this tornado was, but yeah it definitely shows VLT tornadoes like this are probable and not just a closely-spaced tornado family.

 

[pohnpei]

a bit random but I’m still sort of in shock about the Mayfield tornado and just how mind numbingly historic that event was. The stats on the thing are ridiculous; 165 miles on the ground, almost doubling Kentucky’s old longest tracked record, 1.5 miles wide, 57 deaths 515+ injuries, nearly 3 hours on the ground, and town after town devastated all while occurring in mid December. This was probably the closest example of the Tri-State tornado that we’re going to get. Also likely ranks among the costliest ever recorded still unknown just how costly it was. Vividly remember watching on radar wondering just how long this thing would keep going, how many more communities are going to be wiped out, and just being in awe by what I was witnessing. Anyway that was a lot lol but still hard to wrap my head around that this actually happened, probably won’t see something like this again.

View attachment 14666
View attachment 14667

And in December in Kentucky, which made It even more impressive. There were only one or two F2 in Kentucky in December in past 70 years.. There were 7 towns experienced EF4 damage in its path. The DPI of this one single tornado was close to the DPI of the largest tornado outbreak in December history before 12/10. And It didn't occurred near triple point like Tri state.

The Clarksdale-HollySprings tornado family had once been considered as one tornado and later found by tornadotalk that the HollySprings tornado itself was two seperate tornados and Mayfield tornado more than triple the path of it.

Yazoo City was the closest thing to this in recent time but the damage I've seen just barely landed into low end EF4 realm.The radar peak matched up with the only town It hit throughout the path so I don't think the ceiling of this tornado was high.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

a bit random but I’m still sort of in shock about the Mayfield tornado and just how mind numbingly historic that event was. The stats on the thing are ridiculous; 165 miles on the ground, almost doubling Kentucky’s old longest tracked record, 1.5 miles wide, 57 deaths 515+ injuries, nearly 3 hours on the ground, and town after town devastated all while occurring in mid December. This was probably the closest example of the Tri-State tornado that we’re going to get. Also likely ranks among the costliest ever recorded still unknown just how costly it was. Vividly remember watching on radar wondering just how long this thing would keep going, how many more communities are going to be wiped out, and just being in awe by what I was witnessing. Anyway that was a lot lol but still hard to wrap my head around that this actually happened, probably won’t see something like this again.

View attachment 14666
View attachment 14667

While its path length was nowhere near as long, Hackleburg-Phil Campbell is probably the best analog for the Tri-State tornado in modern times as it was at high-end EF5 intensity for most of its path and followed a highway that took it through town and town (similar to the Tri-State following a railroad) and killed tons of people with a high injury to fatality ratio.

 

[TH2002]

Yazoo City was the closest thing to this in recent time but the damage I've seen just barely landed into low end EF4 realm.The radar peak matched up with the only town It hit throughout the path so I don't think the ceiling of this tornado was high.

I 100% believe Yazoo City had EF5 potential. There was at least one large, likely well-built home reduced to its foundation by the tornado, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were several more, but the damage that this thing caused beyond Yazoo City limits is very poorly documented.