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MNTornadoGuy

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View attachment 14719
lmfao...why the heck is there an EF2 with a path length of 234 miles??? this needs to be fixed XD...as well as all those other grossly distorted and clearly inaccurate track lengths...i know this isn't really supposed to go here but i was browsing tornadoes with exceptional track lengths and discovered this non-sense lol. oh the things you'll come across while doing research.
A lot of those are path length errors on part of the SPC database.
 

locomusic01

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Cases of join-the-dots mainly - like the MS track (and even the one below probably has another break in the long bit).
Especially true in Nebraska, any long track there before like, 1990, is likely to be 'interpolated', to put it kindly,

View attachment 14720
Oftentimes if you go back and check contemporary sources you'll even see references to a "skipping path" or the tornado "lifting/jumping/traveling aloft, etc." in certain areas. Probably not a bad idea to view any abnormally long path before modern times with at least a degree of suspicion, although some are a lot more questionable than others. It'd be interesting to map out the VLT events in the historical record to see which ones are potentially legit, but it'd also be a pretty huge undertaking.
 

A Guy

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Oftentimes if you go back and check contemporary sources you'll even see references to a "skipping path" or the tornado "lifting/jumping/traveling aloft, etc." in certain areas. Probably not a bad idea to view any abnormally long path before modern times with at least a degree of suspicion, although some are a lot more questionable than others. It'd be interesting to map out the VLT events in the historical record to see which ones are potentially legit, but it'd also be a pretty huge undertaking.
A lot, if not most, of the time it's known that the path was discontinuous. I remember seeing a note in an MWR about switching from one kind of reporting to the other.

The best I ever saw was one family I think from the sixties or seventies. For four out of five tornadoes in the family it gave specific path starting locations, lengths and most incredibly, start times. Yet because they were all entered under one event there's just one 70-odd mile path in the official data. Sadly I didn't write down the details at the time.
 

A Guy

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As an aside, does anyone know any site where it is easy to access Landsat 1 images?

NASA got rid of the old LandLook viewer about a year ago. The new LandsatLook viewer it much easier to use but it doesn't have Landsat 1 data, which is quite useful due to stretching back to 1972 (you can see the 1974 Guin and Jasper tornadoes on it for instance).

Furthermore, the new viewer doesn't have the stretch and clip image processing options. These were much better for viewing tornado tracks than the options in the new viewer, none of which really make them stand out.

NASA does (apparently) have the data on one or two other sites but they're not intended for casual viewing and are damned near impossible to use.
 

locomusic01

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A lot, if not most, of the time it's known that the path was discontinuous. I remember seeing a note in an MWR about switching from one kind of reporting to the other.

The best I ever saw was one family I think from the sixties or seventies. For four out of five tornadoes in the family it gave specific path starting locations, lengths and most incredibly, start times. Yet because they were all entered under one event there's just one 70-odd mile path in the official data. Sadly I didn't write down the details at the time.
That's pretty much what happened with the ostensibly long-tracked Cleveland F4 on 6/8/53. IIRC, MWR included a fairly detailed map showing what should've been multiple obvious discontinuities - and even pointed them out - but ended up dismissing them because.. you could connect them if you drew a line between them lol. I'm simplifying a little, but not much. And so this:

o8j6Rwn.png


..becomes, depending on your source, either this:

LaBhrXp.png


..or this glorious monstrosity:

oqprb4X.jpg
 
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That's pretty much what happened with the ostensibly long-tracked Cleveland F4 on 6/8/53. IIRC, MWR included a fairly detailed map showing what should've been multiple obvious discontinuities - and even pointed them out - but ended up dismissing them because.. you could connect them if you drew a line between them lol. I'm simplifying a little, but not much. And so this:

o8j6Rwn.png


..becomes, depending on your source, either this:

LaBhrXp.png


..or this glorious monstrosity:

oqprb4X.jpg
Yeah most VLT tracks prior to 1990 or so are usually a tornado family lumped together into a single path; that said, VLTs down south are sometimes more reliable as Dixie tornadoes more often achieve 100+ mile paths. The longest plains tornadoes get is in the ~75 mile range (usually).
Also, love how Temperance just ends right at the shore line in the official map lol. Tornado History had so many blatantly wrong paths.
 

A Guy

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That's pretty much what happened with the ostensibly long-tracked Cleveland F4 on 6/8/53. IIRC, MWR included a fairly detailed map showing what should've been multiple obvious discontinuities - and even pointed them out - but ended up dismissing them because.. you could connect them if you drew a line between them lol. I'm simplifying a little, but not much. And so this:
Ooh yes this interesting construction:

Screen Shot 2022-06-27 at 8.51.18 pm.png

This doesn't apply to that, but I think in a lot of the earlier cases there was a genuine belief that there was one tornado in the storm that alternately dipped and lifted. We now know of course that more or less never happens and that when there's a break it's from one circulation weakening and another strengthening. To be honest I'm not aware of a single confirmed instance of a major tornado weakening to F0 or below then re-strengthening.

This map with the Melrose Park tornado from Palm Sunday 1920 is a very rare one where the path break was actually acknowledged.

Screen Shot 2022-06-27 at 8.47.38 pm.png

Anyway for giggles I've had a go at the 21/2/1971 outbreak (original from TA on left). The paths are from Grazulis and the original report. The first grey (unknown F) segment on the central path is likely not continuous either, but there's no more detail to be had. It's noticeable how the Benton Co. tornado is offset from the previous paths. Even though the times don't match up whoever did the offical track just joined them up.

Screen Shot 2022-06-27 at 7.45.48 pm.pngScreen Shot 2022-06-27 at 7.47.31 pm.png
 
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A Guy

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You mean like this?

1656399054493.png

I'll interested to see if Tornado Archive ever gets around to plotting the pre-1950 F2s. It would really fill in the data and show the extent of the outbreaks of yesteryear.
 

locomusic01

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Just skimmed through the links, but it looks like there's quite a bit of information there. To recreate paths in detail the best place to start is w/plat maps, if you can find some from around the era in question. The Mizzou digital library has a plat book for the state (plus Sanborn maps, which can sometimes be really useful) but I didn't check what year(s) they have available. Even if they're a decade or two off they can often help you plot out enough damage points to get started. Historic Map Works is a great resource too; some of the maps are even searchable by property owner, which is super handy. I think ancestry.com has plat records as well, but I don't have a subscription so I dunno much about it.
 

locomusic01

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Insert bets on which May 5, 2022 tornado Ole Tom rated F4

Weird. Wasn't Lockett, TX on 5/4 the only strong tornado from that whole sequence?

Edit: Also, I guess he must've used the official ratings for 5/31/85? He's got six F4s, presumably leaving out Elimsport (originally F3; rated F4 in SigTor).
 
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Weird. Wasn't Lockett, TX on 5/4 the only strong tornado from that whole sequence?

Edit: Also, I guess he must've used the official ratings for 5/31/85? He's got six F4s, presumably leaving out Elimsport (originally F3; rated F4 in SigTor).
Yeah it's likely Lockett that's being upgraded. He seems to balance out using official ratings and his own surveys in these charts, although it will be hilarious if Lockett goes to EF4 but Vilonia doesn't get upgraded to EF5.
 

Western_KS_Wx

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Insert bets on which May 5, 2022 tornado Ole Tom rated F4


I’m assuming he might’ve got the dates confused because the only major one I can think of around that time frame is Lockett which is...interesting. He also lists 49 F0/1 tornadoes on that date. Anyways I’m a bit surprised that 5/24/11 and 5/23/08 weren’t included in his major outbreak list those were certainly ‘major’ but who knows.
 

MNTornadoGuy

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I’m assuming he might’ve got the dates confused because the only major one I can think of around that time frame is Lockett which is...interesting. He also lists 49 F0/1 tornadoes on that date. Anyways I’m a bit surprised that 5/24/11 and 5/23/08 weren’t included in his major outbreak list those were certainly ‘major’ but who knows.
Probably because those days had a low death total.
 

pohnpei

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Probably because those days had a low death total.
It's still hard to fathom for me how 5/10/08 was a more major outbreak than like 5/24/11. Not denying Lockett last month had the potential to do EF4 damage but I didn't really see any given damage meet the criteria and where did other EF3 tornados come from? Similar confusing things I also noticed from his last tweet about April's one.
While I'm deeply confused about the data and criteria he used, I somehow agree with his climate change things and more about to come with the continuely warming process.
 
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