Significant Tornado Events

[TH2002]

While we’re on the topic of ratings and such I’ve always believed the 2013 Washington tornado had EF5 potential during its passage through the city.

This photo shows a mangled car out in a field with some intense vegetation damage and an obliterated subdivision.
View attachment 14348
Some pretty incredible debris granulation
View attachment 14349
Intense tree damage next to a large home that was swept away
View attachment 14350
This low lying shrub was completely stripped next to a row of homes that were leveled.
View attachment 14351
A very intense streak of wind rowing of debris.
View attachment 14352
A little better quality of the wind rowing.
View attachment 14353
Aerial showing entire rows of two story homes completely swept away.
View attachment 14354
One of many homes that were swept away.
View attachment 14355
Another swept away home
View attachment 14356
More intense damage from Washington.
View attachment 14358

I think it’s undoubtable to say had this occurred back in the 90’s it would’ve gained an F5 rating. I’m honestly more impressed by some of the damage in Washington than the 1990 Hesston tornado and 1998 Birmingham tornado to name a few.

I have to mention this stuff now as well:

Some of the homes in Washington actually did lose their subflooring, contrary to popular belief. This is one of them:


Truck wrapped around a tree:

 

[Western_KS_Wx]

Yeah, I think it was CheeseheadSkies that mentioned EF5 was very much considered but dropped due to "political reasons".

Yep I remember reading on an old storm track thread that mentioned that as well.

Here’s some aerial shots that I couldn’t include but are definitely noteworthy showing just the ridiculous amount of homes that were swept cleanly away.

 

[CheeselandSkies]

Yeah, I think it was CheeseheadSkies that mentioned EF5 was very much considered but dropped due to "political reasons".

I don't recall doing that, I've always been more interested in the 2015 Rochelle, IL EF4 than the 2013 Washington one (mainly because I could have caught the 2015 one on my chase that day had I only stayed put a little longer). That said, that is some very impressive damage.

 

[Lake Martin EF4]

OTD in 1985...

1985 United States–Canada tornado outbreak - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And in 1947:



and 2013

2013 El Reno tornado - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SouthFLwx]

While we’re on the topic of ratings and such I’ve always believed the 2013 Washington tornado had EF5 potential during its passage through the city.

This photo shows a mangled car out in a field with some intense vegetation damage and an obliterated subdivision.
View attachment 14348
Some pretty incredible debris granulation
View attachment 14349
Intense tree damage next to a large home that was swept away
View attachment 14350
This low lying shrub was completely stripped next to a row of homes that were leveled.
View attachment 14351
A very intense streak of wind rowing of debris.
View attachment 14352
A little better quality of the wind rowing.
View attachment 14353
Aerial showing entire rows of two story homes completely swept away.
View attachment 14354
One of many homes that were swept away.
View attachment 14355
Another swept away home
View attachment 14356
More intense damage from Washington.
View attachment 14358

I think it’s undoubtable to say had this occurred back in the 90’s it would’ve gained an F5 rating. I’m honestly more impressed by some of the damage in Washington than the 1990 Hesston tornado and 1998 Birmingham tornado to name a few.

At first, I was a little hesitant in believing that Washington had EF5 potential, but after seeing these pictures, I am now fully convinced that tornado had EF5 winds. The sheer amount of homes that were leveled and swept away reminds me of other “neighborhood-destroying” tornadoes such as Moore 2013.

 

[TH2002]

I've been reading the TornadoTalk article on this thing and it's amazing how violent it was between Tuscaloosa and Birmingham, the sheer amount of forest it downed is on par with Hackleburg at points. And yeah, there was 1 or 2 houses in rural, remote areas that the survey teams likely missed due to their locations and were probably EF5 damage. I'll have to read the section of the article again.
Yeah, Alberta City was definitely near-EF5 at the very least, the warehouse damage is crazy although warehouses usually don't stand up to much wind anyways.

When you get a chance to read the article, does it have coordinates or at least the name of a nearby town for the rural home(s) that were slabbed? The ones I posted might actually be them, but I do kinda want to confirm.

And does it have ground level photos of the rural homes? Won't ask you to post them since the article is behind a paywall, but I may just have to bite the bullet at some point.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

When you get a chance to read the article, does it have coordinates or at least the name of a nearby town for the rural home(s) that were slabbed? The ones I posted might actually be them, but I do kinda want to confirm.

And does it have ground level photos of the rural homes? Won't ask you to post them since the article is behind a paywall, but I may just have to bite the bullet at some point.

I think one of the pictures was posted on Twitter a while back; its the home that looks anchor bolted but no way to know for sure as it wasn't surveyed. It was in the Holt area.
Also, there was another multi-story residence in the Peterson area that was also completely swept away and not surveyed, and a case could be made for EF5 damage having been inflicted upon it as well.

Pictures of some them are available here:

 

[TH2002]

I think one of the pictures was posted on Twitter a while back; its the home that looks anchor bolted but no way to know for sure as it wasn't surveyed. It was in the Holt area.
Also, there was another multi-story residence in the Peterson area that was also completely swept away and not surveyed, and a case could be made for EF5 damage having been inflicted upon it as well.

Pictures of some them are available here:

Oh boy; I'm really gonna start sounding like a broken record if I go on about subfloors for much longer, but that's what the photos of that one home on Holt Peterson Road appear to be, it also looks like the foundation underneath was CMU. Not a good candidate for an EF5 rating.

And while I can't be certain, this photo I posted previously also appears to show a home swept from its subflooring (anyone getting sick of seeing that word yet?). Not 100% sure, but the strange colors and intact shrubbery support that theory.


With that said, it does appear that at least one slab-built home was swept away in the rural areas between Tuscaloosa and Birmingham, namely this one I just came across on Eagle Cove Dr (now Recreation Area Rd) NNW of Peterson. No way to tell for sure obviously, but looks like it was pretty well-built. Many other site-built homes were leveled or swept away in this area, and mobile and manufactured homes vanished.



The tornado may very well have reached peak intensity here; I just wish there were ground level photos available.

And here's everyone's reassurance that yes, I do still firmly believe Hackleburg was an EF5 and that opinion is not going to change. Yeah, many of the structures it encountered were poorly built, though you could say that about many US tornadoes, honestly. No doubt this video shows some of the highest-end damage you're ever gonna see from a tornado:

 

[Lake Martin EF4]

Oh boy; I'm really gonna start sounding like a broken record if I go on about subfloors for much longer, but that's what the photos of that one home on Holt Peterson Road appear to be, it also looks like the foundation underneath was CMU. Not a good candidate for an EF5 rating.

And while I can't be certain, this photo I posted previously also appears to show a home swept from its subflooring (anyone getting sick of seeing that word yet?). Not 100% sure, but the strange colors and intact shrubbery support that theory.

CMU2002

sorry......

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Oh boy; I'm really gonna start sounding like a broken record if I go on about subfloors for much longer, but that's what the photos of that one home on Holt Peterson Road appear to be, it also looks like the foundation underneath was CMU. Not a good candidate for an EF5 rating.

And while I can't be certain, this photo I posted previously also appears to show a home swept from its subflooring (anyone getting sick of seeing that word yet?). Not 100% sure, but the strange colors and intact shrubbery support that theory.
View attachment 14362

With that said, it does appear that at least one slab-built home was swept away in the rural areas between Tuscaloosa and Birmingham, namely this one I just came across on Eagle Cove Dr (now Recreation Area Rd) NNW of Peterson. No way to tell for sure obviously, but looks like it was pretty well-built. Many other site-built homes were leveled or swept away in this area, and mobile and manufactured homes vanished.
View attachment 14364
View attachment 14365

The tornado may very well have reached peak intensity here; I just wish there were ground level photos available.

And here's everyone's reassurance that yes, I do still firmly believe Hackleburg was an EF5 and that opinion is not going to change. Yeah, many of the structures it encountered were poorly built, though you could say that about many US tornadoes, honestly. No doubt this video shows some of the highest-end damage you're ever gonna see from a tornado:

At this point I've given up with the EF scale lol....the stuff about CMU and all that, I just can't keep up.
But yeah, I wish the article wasn't behind a paywall or I could show it here without fear of a copyright suit lol.
FYI a monthly charge is only $3, you could do it as a one time thing and never again.

 

[TH2002]

CMU2002

sorry......

Personally I think Idiot2002 sounds better than CMU2002, that's more accurate if you ask me.

And despite everything I've said I actually DON'T think a CMU foundation should be an automatic EF5 disqualifier in every case, such as this home in Niles:

Despite the foundation type, note how it's mostly underground and mostly intact, with little evidence the foundation failed underneath the home. I think one could arguably make the same case for Dalton/Ashby as well.

 

[locomusic01]

Welp, I tried. I'm so damn disappointed, but even after working non-stop since 5:30 this morning (and for the last week basically), there's just no way I'm gonna get the 5/31/85 article done today. I'm done with everything up through Niles-Wheatland, so I'm well over halfway, but I still have another day or two of work. I'm too exhausted to do any more tonight. This blows.

 

[TH2002]

At this point I've given up with the EF scale lol....the stuff about CMU and all that, I just can't keep up.
But yeah, I wish the article wasn't behind a paywall or I could show it here without fear of a copyright suit lol.
FYI a monthly charge is only $3, you could do it as a one time thing and never again.

I do wish TornadoTalk had another payment model where you could pay for individual articles; 50 cents an article sounds pretty good if you ask me, I'd go ahead and bite the bullet in that case.

Not gonna lie, the EF scale is all over the place, sometimes I have a hard time understanding it myself. Warning that this does cause me to have the same scatterbrained kind of logic that a certain user here is notable for.

I'll simplify the construction of US homes into three different categories: craptastic, decent, and very good. Maybe that would help make all of this easier to understand?

But I know I'm just rambling at this point, so enjoy these videos of the 2003 Lawrence, KS tornado. I've been looking for an excuse to post them.

 

[locomusic01]

Personally I think Idiot2002 sounds better than CMU2002, that's more accurate if you ask me.

And despite everything I've said I actually DON'T think a CMU foundation should be an automatic EF5 disqualifier in every case, such as this home in Niles:
View attachment 14367
Despite the foundation type, note how it's mostly underground and mostly intact, with little evidence the foundation failed underneath the home. I think one could arguably make the same case for Dalton/Ashby as well.

I'd be shocked if it got an EF5 rating today, but it absolutely should. This house is right in the center of the Streak of Doom™ on Lantern Lane in Niles' Shadow Ridge neighborhood, which is about as extreme as contextual damage gets.

That field in the foreground isn't plowed-up topsoil btw, it's just been scoured to hell. This is almost straight across from the Jameisons' home (the one you posted) and a hundred or so yards downstream. The Trudell family's home was right next to theirs and allegedly part of the concrete slab was broken/pulled up when the home was swept away. Obviously that sounds pretty sketchy, but in any event, the home definitely did not fare well. Lighter debris from these homes was eventually found up to ~190 miles away.

Speaking of Niles-Wheatland, the ground scouring across Wheatland Flats was pretty wild.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Personally I think Idiot2002 sounds better than CMU2002, that's more accurate if you ask me.

And despite everything I've said I actually DON'T think a CMU foundation should be an automatic EF5 disqualifier in every case, such as this home in Niles:
View attachment 14367
Despite the foundation type, note how it's mostly underground and mostly intact, with little evidence the foundation failed underneath the home. I think one could arguably make the same case for Dalton/Ashby as well.

Yeah, so many past F5s and EF5s likely wouldn't get rated as such nowadays. Philadelphia & Rainsville for sure wouldn't, Lawrenceburg 1998 likely wouldn't be, hell Parkersburg probably would get high-end EF4 at most. *Shudders* imagine Jarrell occurring in the modern day, lol. No more than high-end EF3 because of improperly-spaced anchor bolts or some scrap like that.

 

[TH2002]

Welp, I tried. I'm so damn disappointed, but even after working non-stop since 5:30 this morning (and for the last week basically), there's just no way I'm gonna get the 5/31/85 article done today. I'm done with everything up through Niles-Wheatland, so I'm well over halfway, but I still have another day or two of work. I'm too exhausted to do any more tonight. This blows.

Suppose there's no point in trying to rush the article now. Take as much time as you actually need to finish it.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

I'd be shocked if it got an EF5 rating today, but it absolutely should. This house is right in the center of the Streak of Doom™ on Lantern Lane in Niles' Shadow Ridge neighborhood, which is about as extreme as contextual damage gets.

That field in the foreground isn't plowed-up topsoil btw, it's just been scoured to hell. This is almost straight across from the Jameisons' home (the one you posted) and a hundred or so yards downstream. The Trudell family's home was right next to theirs and allegedly part of the concrete slab was broken/pulled up when the home was swept away. Obviously that sounds pretty sketchy, but in any event, the home definitely did not fare well. Lighter debris from these homes was eventually found up to ~190 miles away.

Speaking of Niles-Wheatland, the ground scouring across Wheatland Flats was pretty wild.

Wow, so this tornado DID cause ground scouring!
Also, that aerial from Niles is on par with Andover in terms of the severity of wind-rowing.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Welp, I tried. I'm so damn disappointed, but even after working non-stop since 5:30 this morning (and for the last week basically), there's just no way I'm gonna get the 5/31/85 article done today. I'm done with everything up through Niles-Wheatland, so I'm well over halfway, but I still have another day or two of work. I'm too exhausted to do any more tonight. This blows.

At this point you can take as much time as possible. Hell, don't waste too much time with proofreading paragraphs anymore; you can always come back and edit later.
Also, I'm eagerly awaiting to see the sheer amount of stuff you've uncovered!

 

[TH2002]

Yeah, so many past F5s and EF5s likely wouldn't get rated as such nowadays. Philadelphia & Rainsville for sure wouldn't, Lawrenceburg 1998 likely wouldn't be, hell Parkersburg probably would get high-end EF4 at most. *Shudders* imagine Jarrell occurring in the modern day, lol. No more than high-end EF3 because of improperly-spaced anchor bolts or some scrap like that.

It all started with these "engineering studies" in Jarrell and Joplin, while Chickasha, Golsdby and Vilonia is where these ideas were first used in practice. Their "test runs" if you will, and now the EF5 rating has essentially been retired. Not a good precedent.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

It all started with these "engineering studies" in Jarrell and Joplin, while Chickasha, Golsdby and Vilonia is where these ideas were first used in practice. Their "test runs" if you will, and now the EF5 rating has essentially been retired. Not a good precedent.

La Plata in 2002 didn't help either (at least with the old scale). Several F4s in 2004 that should've been F5.