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While I think debris likely had some effect in the tree debarking I don’t think it was as big of a factor, and I also don’t believe debris has that great of an effect on tree debarking as some might think in my personal opinion.

In these 3 photos where debris loading was much greater than the area near the lake, tree damage was intense, but not nearly to the level of debarking seen north of town.
View attachment 21529
View attachment 21530View attachment 21531
The tree damage north of town can be contributed to the tornadoes sheer violence in that area, there’s also overwhelming contextual evidence that supports that as well. Also, those two attached posts were posts that I made lol.

That rail photo reminds me, that farm implement which likely struck the train tracks (I think it’s a sprinkler pivot?) originated from the John Deere company, which was over a 1/4 mile south of the railroad tracks. Here’s another angle of said farm implement.
View attachment 21532
What’s also rather impressive is just how far some of the pieces of equipment from the John Deere company ended up, there were a couple of whole combine tires and shredded pieces of combines and other farm vehicles that wound up caught in trees on the north side of the lake over 1/2 mile from the company.
View attachment 21533
View attachment 21534
View attachment 21535
The large farm implement in the last photo was thrown past the train tracks, a journey that was about 425-475 yards.

Another thing I’d love to learn more about and find info on is these two large crumpled up steel tanks, that I have absolutely no clue where they originated from. View attachment 21536
View attachment 21537
The first photo is taken just north of Delmar Day Elementary school and just south of Greensburg Highschool, while the second is taken right where N Bay Street and W Michigan Avenue intersect on the north edge of town, which is over 3/4 mile away from where the first photo was taken. They look practically identical and I’m assuming came from the same place, just dunno where in the world it could possibly be. One things for certain both of the tanks, particularly the one that wound up on the north side of town, took one hell of a journey. The container on the north side of town traveled at the absolute least a full mile, as that’s the distance of the nearest sort of “industrial” area of town that was located in south Greensburg, and really the only area I can think of where it could’ve come from that’s located nearest to town.

There are several impressive damage feats from Greensburg that are nearly completely obscure, and those steel tanks is certainly near the top of that list. Like you pointed out, the fact that the tornado was occluding and was in the last stages of its life cycle in Greensburg is crazy to think about.

The crushed steel tanks remind me of Moore 2013 and Vilonia, where they were more or less turned inside out and thrown up to a mile in some cases. Also, I saw another pic of the tire from John Deere wedged between the two trees, I think the rubber itself may have been sheared into the bark itself.

This whole supercell was crazy, Trousdale, Hopewell and Macksville were are massive wedges (at least one was over 2 miles wide at times) and while the these three were officially rated EF3 I've no doubt they achieved EF5 intensity, just didn't hit anything to register it.
 

Western_KS_Wx

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The crushed steel tanks remind me of Moore 2013 and Vilonia, where they were more or less turned inside out and thrown up to a mile in some cases. Also, I saw another pic of the tire from John Deere wedged between the two trees, I think the rubber itself may have been sheared into the bark itself.

This whole supercell was crazy, Trousdale, Hopewell and Macksville were are massive wedges (at least one was over 2 miles wide at times) and while the these three were officially rated EF3 I've no doubt they achieved EF5 intensity, just didn't hit anything to register it.
Right, there was an interesting tidbit under one of Tim Marshall’s Facebook posts on the anniversary of Greensburg where he mentioned Trousdale was “every bit as violent” as Greensburg. Personnel at NWS Dodge City also have stated several times before that Trousdale and Hopewell likely were just as violent if not more so than the EF5.

Hate to clog practically the whole damn thread about Greensburg stuff, but your post about the bent railroad tracks reminded me of these several other photos I’ve got along the train tracks.
FABDCFBA-73EF-4FE7-803B-72133271B06F.jpeg
AD8440DC-53E4-445A-88F8-5E49DDFAD01C.jpeg
This second photo you can see the farm implement that bent the railroad tracks off in the distance.
3962B54B-A3B2-4795-9705-9FA9FFDFC007.jpeg
58B50BFD-F954-420D-B8C1-4B95294B2798.jpeg
38D6790E-87BE-434C-8502-BD62BA9BF456.jpeg
502E0843-ECBD-4AED-8EEC-73987ECB1322.jpeg
DC37C233-2D57-4CEF-BDBB-FBABE3D04014.jpeg

Last little tidbit while we were on the topic of things being thrown, there were numerous reports throughout town of farm implements or pieces of such originating well south of Greensburg that landed in several locations throughout town. Was a little skeptical until I came across photographic evidence.
3B87CE85-32F1-40B5-A602-DE11A52F5518.jpeg
First photo shows a fuel tank that very likely originated from a farm well south of Greensburg that struck the roof of the persons home who took this photo before coming to rest in their yard.
8D29C405-6912-4236-89DA-62ED8A44A944.jpeg
This one’s probably the most impressive, the large red farm implement sitting in the rubble of a business in downtown Greensburg near the intersection of Highway 50 did not come from a separate business in town, but rather a farm also well south of town.

Last one, this photo below also shows another instance of a vehicle (probably a truck??) being completely shredded and mangled beyond recognition.
D29B647D-E7A6-4579-928F-96B8442AC68C.jpeg
On the lower right is the remains of a vehicle that was smashed into a crumpled ball and ripped completely apart that landed in the destroyed Gymnasium of the junior high and grade school on the south side of town. The vehicle likely originated either from the row of homes swept away about 1/4 mile south of the school or a couple of homes across the field, about 1/2 mile away. However it could’ve also come from a farmstead roughly a mile south of where the school is located.
 
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joshoctober16

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The crushed steel tanks remind me of Moore 2013 and Vilonia, where they were more or less turned inside out and thrown up to a mile in some cases. Also, I saw another pic of the tire from John Deere wedged between the two trees, I think the rubber itself may have been sheared into the bark itself.

This whole supercell was crazy, Trousdale, Hopewell and Macksville were are massive wedges (at least one was over 2 miles wide at times) and while the these three were officially rated EF3 I've no doubt they achieved EF5 intensity, just didn't hit anything to register it.
heres the impressive stuff the 4 of them did
Greensburg EF5 May 2007 (28 mph forward speed)
  1. Major ground scouring less then 2 feet
  2. Low shrubs and trees completely debarked
  3. Well built home swept clean
  4. Cars/Trucks thrown 200+ meters/completely mangled beyond recognition
  5. Road Pavement scouring
  6. Train track bent
  7. people killed in underground basement/storm shelter
  8. TVS of 244.2 knots (EF3 to Very Strong EF5 140-281 mph winds)

Hopewell - Macksville EF3+ May 2007 (im not sure why it isn't rated a strong EF4 it really should be since it swept clean well built homes and threw vehicles almost a mile away at least give it a 185 mph rating)
  1. Well built home swept clean
  2. Cars/Trucks thrown 700+ meters
  3. people killed in underground basement/storm shelter
  4. TVS of 182.4 knots (EF1+ to Weak EF5 104-209 mph winds)

Trousdale EF3+ May 2007
  1. unsure quality brick home swept clean
  2. Cars/Trucks thrown 200+ meters
  3. TVS of 223.4 knots (EF2 to Strong EF5 128-257 mph winds)

Macksville - St. John EF3 May 2007
  1. TVS of 214.7 knots (EF2 to Strong EF5 123 - 247 mph winds)
 

Western_KS_Wx

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heres the impressive stuff the 4 of them did
Greensburg EF5 May 2007 (28 mph forward speed)
  1. Major ground scouring less then 2 feet
  2. Low shrubs and trees completely debarked
  3. Well built home swept clean
  4. Cars/Trucks thrown 200+ meters/completely mangled beyond recognition
  5. Road Pavement scouring
  6. Train track bent
  7. people killed in underground basement/storm shelter
  8. TVS of 244.2 knots (EF3 to Very Strong EF5 140-281 mph winds)

Hopewell - Macksville EF3+ May 2007 (im not sure why it isn't rated a strong EF4 it really should be since it swept clean well built homes and threw vehicles almost a mile away at least give it a 185 mph rating)
  1. Well built home swept clean
  2. Cars/Trucks thrown 700+ meters
  3. people killed in underground basement/storm shelter
  4. TVS of 182.4 knots (EF1+ to Weak EF5 104-209 mph winds)

Trousdale EF3+ May 2007
  1. unsure quality brick home swept clean
  2. Cars/Trucks thrown 200+ meters
  3. TVS of 223.4 knots (EF2 to Strong EF5 128-257 mph winds)

Macksville - St. John EF3 May 2007
  1. TVS of 214.7 knots (EF2 to Strong EF5 123 - 247 mph winds)
Little curious as to if you have a picture or evidence of the pavement and road scouring from Greensburg? I’ve got over 1000 photos from the tornado and am currently writing an article on the event, but I haven’t seen or heard of any instances of roads being scoured. There were some instances where sidewalks were damaged and warped, including some that were broken apart, however no true pavement scouring as I would call it. Although I wouldn’t be all that surprised if a county road outside of town was scoured.
 

SwollenHeart

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The Joplin Tornado was an EF5 without any doubt.
Here's an excerpt from Bill Davis of the NWS in Springfield:
"It took us longer to identify the EF5 damage and that it would take winds of over 200 miles per hour to do that damage." Additionally, the basis for the EF5 rating in Joplin was mainly contextual rather than structural, with non-conventional damage indicators such as the removal of concrete parking stops, manhole covers, reinforced concrete porches, driveways, and asphalt used to arrive at a final rating. The presence of wind rowed structural debris, instances of very large vehicles such as buses, vans, and semi-trucks being thrown hundreds of yards to several blocks from their points of origin, the fact that some homeowners never located their vehicles, and the overwhelming extent and totality of the destruction in Joplin were also taken into consideration"
 

Western_KS_Wx

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The Joplin Tornado was an EF5 without any doubt.
Here's an excerpt from Bill Davis of the NWS in Springfield:
"It took us longer to identify the EF5 damage and that it would take winds of over 200 miles per hour to do that damage." Additionally, the basis for the EF5 rating in Joplin was mainly contextual rather than structural, with non-conventional damage indicators such as the removal of concrete parking stops, manhole covers, reinforced concrete porches, driveways, and asphalt used to arrive at a final rating. The presence of wind rowed structural debris, instances of very large vehicles such as buses, vans, and semi-trucks being thrown hundreds of yards to several blocks from their points of origin, the fact that some homeowners never located their vehicles, and the overwhelming extent and totality of the destruction in Joplin were also taken into consideration"
I’ve always thought the rating dispute or essentially very watered down EF5 rating for Joplin was odd.
In Tim Marshall’s survey he found 22 homes that were rated EF5, and there were numerous other structures that were solid candidates for EF5 all throughout Joplin. Then of course there’s that survey done by the American Society of Civil engineers that stated almost all of the damage was caused by EF2-3 winds (????) and NWS Springfield stating there was “only a very small area” of EF5 damage in Joplin, which is completely untrue.
Anywho, here’s some of the many instances of extreme damage in Joplin, that I don’t think was done by EF2-3 winds…could just be me.
423F6441-20DE-4749-A398-37D1A60A59AA.jpeg
D951E05A-ED9A-48A0-A650-9CC31B8FB333.jpeg7C7C5927-BB66-430A-9AB4-FD358D4F3857.jpegAD7AF46A-35C8-4885-912B-ADF2093AF527.jpeg5E703F25-43B9-4E73-A621-9485FE561E16.jpegA386958E-874A-4405-9E3A-ADF77AE0F360.jpeg76E24517-B997-431E-A016-6D8E2A9B839B.jpegF7E0488B-6813-4EC7-A1FC-4EA96E798CBB.jpeg
 

TH2002

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Joplin was absolutely an EF5 and no amount of argument from the ASCE, idiotic YT commenters or anyone else is ever going to convince me otherwise. On top of the fact there were multiple structures indeed well-constructed enough for an EF5 rating per Tim Marshall's survey, the contextual damage had literally all the hallmarks of an extremely high-end tornado (completely mangled/shredded/missing vehicles, massive debarking of trees, ground scouring, wind rowing, debris granulation, etc.)

In the vicinity of the destroyed Dillons grocery store, grass was scoured to bare soil. This photo was taken the day after the tornado, so no cleanup here.


Sheet metal wrapped around trees, some completely debarked.


Granulation of all types of building materials down to the size of matchsticks and pebbles - but note how a book remains virtually untouched...


More extreme debris granulation and tree debarking


This was a car:


Anchored buildings swept away, including a higher-quality shot of that house that had one of its basement walls blown out
https://flickr.com/photos/carlmanni...eUa-me2jD6-a38LvV-abSZuq-9YWQ1X-GiHvA2-9LhLLq
https://www.flickr.com/photos/babybare11/5766553835/in/album-72157626854857850
img_20220125_091004-jpg.11987

joplin-ef5-damage-debarking2-jpg.14192
 

SwollenHeart

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I’ve always thought the rating dispute or essentially very watered down EF5 rating for Joplin was odd.
In Tim Marshall’s survey he found 22 homes that were rated EF5, and there were numerous other structures that were solid candidates for EF5 all throughout Joplin. Then of course there’s that survey done by the American Society of Civil engineers that stated almost all of the damage was caused by EF2-3 winds (????) and NWS Springfield stating there was “only a very small area” of EF5 damage in Joplin, which is completely untrue.
Anywho, here’s some of the many instances of extreme damage in Joplin, that I don’t think was done by EF2-3 winds…could just be me.
View attachment 21573
View attachment 21574View attachment 21575View attachment 21576View attachment 21577View attachment 21578View attachment 21579View attachment 21580
Great points Western KS WX.. and devastating pictures.
I've only recently begun really diving into the Joplin Monster. Absolutely fascinated by everything about it. The birth-Basehunters video of the small multi-vortex turning into a Monster in a matter of just a few minutes is unbelievable. It's peak intensity just prior to being really hard to see because of the rain wrapping just looks like something out of a doomsday scenario. Like a big, wide, black tounge dropping from the sky or something. Then the pictures. The devastation, for me, is simply unforgettable. The Tuscaloosa 2011 had an angry, violent look about it, and I can only imagine what the 1925 Monster would have looked like, but the Joplin Monster scares me the most.
 

pohnpei

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Joplin was absolutely an EF5 and no amount of argument from the ASCE, idiotic YT commenters or anyone else is ever going to convince me otherwise. On top of the fact there were multiple structures indeed well-constructed enough for an EF5 rating per Tim Marshall's survey, the contextual damage had literally all the hallmarks of an extremely high-end tornado (completely mangled/shredded/missing vehicles, massive debarking of trees, ground scouring, wind rowing, debris granulation, etc.)

In the vicinity of the destroyed Dillons grocery store, grass was scoured to bare soil. This photo was taken the day after the tornado, so no cleanup here.


Sheet metal wrapped around trees, some completely debarked.


Granulation of all types of building materials down to the size of matchsticks and pebbles - but note how a book remains virtually untouched...


More extreme debris granulation and tree debarking


This was a car:


Anchored buildings swept away, including a higher-quality shot of that house that had one of its basement walls blown out
https://flickr.com/photos/carlmanni...eUa-me2jD6-a38LvV-abSZuq-9YWQ1X-GiHvA2-9LhLLq
https://www.flickr.com/photos/babybare11/5766553835/in/album-72157626854857850
img_20220125_091004-jpg.11987

joplin-ef5-damage-debarking2-jpg.14192

The sixth pic here showed incredible damage to the business area near hospital aera.
In at least one case, the thick reinforced concrete wall of the sturdy building was broken by winds.Notice the right side of the pic below. Rarely we can see this type of damage to concrete building made by tornado. Highly granulated debris with remains of twisted vehicles wind rowing to the building.Cache_-41dc823939653517(1).jpg
some other damage pics in this place
Cache_4940b7ca276d9db9.jpgCache_-2704297201f82f39.jpgCache_-3d2c3e647ba90117.jpgCache_665e64dedfacee61.jpgCache_79e7c55eb221c310.jpgCache_-1510f280eb1d283b.jpg
 

TH2002

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That basement image is absolutely terrifying
It wasn't an isolated instance either - despite 87% of homes in Joplin lacking basements, there were still multiple instances of vehicles (and massive amounts of debris) ending up in crawlspaces and basements:
joplin-ef5-damage-debarked-trees.png

joplin_crushed_vehicles_more_980x551.jpg

1390083654000-114587727_4292308_ver1.0.jpg

0523_joplin_blog_main_horizontal.jpg

a-volunteer-dave-green-from-miami-fl-tosses-recovered-personal-itmes-to-shandie-spencer-from.jpg

joplin.jpg


Car wrapped around a tree:
joplin-tornado-survivor-i-believed-id-die.1306207308000-3.jpeg
 

Austin Dawg

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It wasn't an isolated instance either - despite 87% of homes in Joplin lacking basements, there were still multiple instances of vehicles (and massive amounts of debris) ending up in crawlspaces and basements:

You guys are touching on a subject I think is forgotten and overlooked. There is usually a lot of debate about which tornado was the strongest. It's natural and human nature to try and identify the strongest. I don't think that is as important as examining these extreme tornadoes and putting them in the same category. Smithville's F5 doesn't matter because it was an F5 or how strong it was. It turned out that Smithville changed. The people and the town were changed and affected in ways that cannot be measured and are still felt today. You can say the same about Joplin, Hackleburg, Tri-State, Greensburg, Moore 1999 and 2013, etc.

Just my soapbox moment. I'll let you guys hopefully return to sharing these great pics. I'm glad you do because you won't see them compared like this anywhere else.
 

Western_KS_Wx

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So, I mentioned earlier in one of my posts that I’m currently in the process of writing a Wordpress article about the entire Greensburg tornado event including the ‘Big 4.” Well, I was able to talk to NWS DDC meteorologist Mike Umscheid in person - the man who issued the tornado emergency for Greensburg, as well as assisting in surveying the event - and got into contact with him and other Dodge City personnel.

They’ve been able to provide me tons of exclusive damage photos and information from all 4 major wedge tornadoes that night, as well as insight behind the ratings, surveying process, and path widths for the tornadoes; to name just few of the many awesome resources they’re able to provide me. Absolutely can’t wait for the final product of the article, and can’t wait to share it on the internet and to you all!
 

CLP80

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You guys are touching on a subject I think is forgotten and overlooked. There is usually a lot of debate about which tornado was the strongest. It's natural and human nature to try and identify the strongest. I don't think that is as important as examining these extreme tornadoes and putting them in the same category. Smithville's F5 doesn't matter because it was an F5 or how strong it was. It turned out that Smithville changed. The people and the town were changed and affected in ways that cannot be measured and are still felt today. You can say the same about Joplin, Hackleburg, Tri-State, Greensburg, Moore 1999 and 2013, etc.

Just my soapbox moment. I'll let you guys hopefully return to sharing these great pics. I'm glad you do because you won't see them compared like this anywhere else.
Recently I was looking at some before/after street view images of Mayfield, KY following the December 2021 tornado. I was shocked at how desolate the town looks now, compared to before the tornado. That town has certainly changed forever from that one tornado (which crossed the entire town in about 30 seconds). E9997619-A521-47DC-BBB7-CE8FC7298FCE.jpegD85E62F4-C0DF-446E-91D4-1B8C23F1F1C4.jpegE54284BB-03DC-4651-9FF9-4A8694C7B626.jpeg569578F0-3EBE-4528-A6AA-0F6814D4F00D.jpeg
 
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Austin Dawg

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SwollenHeart

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Recently I was looking at some before/after street view images of Mayfield, KY following the December 2021 photos. I was shocked at how desolate the town looks now, compared to before the tornado. That town has certainly changed forever from that one tornado (which crossed the entire town in about 30 seconds). View attachment 21670View attachment 21669View attachment 21672View attachment 21671
I'm not at all familiar with this one. Cursory search tells me this monster tracked 200 miles!? Is that right?
 

Western_KS_Wx

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Recently I was looking at some before/after street view images of Mayfield, KY following the December 2021 tornado. I was shocked at how desolate the town looks now, compared to before the tornado. That town has certainly changed forever from that one tornado (which crossed the entire town in about 30 seconds). View attachment 21670View attachment 21669View attachment 21672View attachment 21671
There are a lot of rural communities in Alabama such as Hackleburg, Phil Campbell, Concord, and even Pleasant Grove that were devastated by violent tornadoes on April 27, 2011 that still look very desolate and barren. It takes years sometimes decades for the landscape and community to return to even just somewhat normal.

On the topic of this, Moore Oklahoma following May 20 2013 is still by far the fastest rebuilding community I’ve ever seen after a violent tornado strike, and an incredibly destructive and intense one as well. It’s incredible just how fast they were able to rebuild and you have to look very hard in some spots to even tell that a EF5 tornado had once razed the whole area to a ground.
 

Western_KS_Wx

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I'm not at all familiar with this one. Cursory search tells me this monster tracked 200 miles!? Is that right?
It was two different tornadoes, lots of news outlets have it incorrectly being one tornado and still call it the quad state tornado. The track segments are made up of an EF4 that tracked 80 miles through AR, MO, and TN and then the Mayfield EF4 tornado that tracked 165 miles.
 
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