• Welcome to TalkWeather!
    We see you lurking around TalkWeather! Take the extra step and join us today to view attachments, see less ads and maybe even join the discussion.
    CLICK TO JOIN TALKWEATHER
Logo 468x120

TH2002

Member
Sustaining Member
Messages
3,116
Reaction score
4,677
Location
California, United States
Special Affiliations
  1. SKYWARN® Volunteer
I was able to find ground level photos from one of the homes that was swept away, and in my opinion the tornado was very likely at EF5 intensity in that area. I also believe the tornado reached a secondary maxima in the Concord-Pleasant Grove area as well, and probably again at some point during its trek through sparsely unpopulated forested areas between Tuscaloosa and Birmingham.
Was it actually one of the homes north of Peterson or is it the one home on Holt Peterson Rd near the railroad bridge? Might get a lot of flak for this but I honestly don't think this particular home is a good EF5 candidate because it's a CMU foundation and the subfloor is still attached. Granted, the tornado may have already been at EF5 intensity in this area (James Spann in his book argued as such due to the destruction of the railroad bridge) and it seems the tornado's core did NOT make a direct hit on this house anyway.
Tuscaloosa-damage-holt-peterson3.JPG

Now there WERE two other homes in the area just north of Peterson (the area you pointed out) that were probably good EF5 candidates, and if the photos are of one of those homes I would LOVE to see them.
 

Western_KS_Wx

Member
Messages
207
Reaction score
586
Location
Garden City KS
Was it actually one of the homes north of Peterson or is it the one home on Holt Peterson Rd near the railroad bridge? Might get a lot of flak for this but I honestly don't think this particular home is a good EF5 candidate because it's a CMU foundation and the subfloor is still attached. Granted, the tornado may have already been at EF5 intensity in this area (James Spann in his book argued as such due to the destruction of the railroad bridge) and it seems the tornado's core did NOT make a direct hit on this house anyway.
View attachment 14965

Now there WERE two other homes in the area just north of Peterson (the area you pointed out) that were probably good EF5 candidates, and if the photos are of one of those homes I would LOVE to see them.
It is this home yes, however in the original survey for this tornado it was mentioned that this home was actually well-built but was not given an EF5 rating due to contextual damage not supporting an EF5 rating, which I have to disagree with. However I did scour the internet and found a whole load of really interesting photos from the Concord-Pleasant Grove area and also near Peterson, I have to say in a couple of them the damage almost screams EF5.
 
Messages
2,157
Reaction score
2,713
Location
Missouri
It is this home yes, however in the original survey for this tornado it was mentioned that this home was actually well-built but was not given an EF5 rating due to contextual damage not supporting an EF5 rating, which I have to disagree with. However I did scour the internet and found a whole load of really interesting photos from the Concord-Pleasant Grove area and also near Peterson, I have to say in a couple of them the damage almost screams EF5.
This post has some impressive photos of damage in Alberta City and Birmingham:

 

TH2002

Member
Sustaining Member
Messages
3,116
Reaction score
4,677
Location
California, United States
Special Affiliations
  1. SKYWARN® Volunteer
It is this home yes, however in the original survey for this tornado it was mentioned that this home was actually well-built but was not given an EF5 rating due to contextual damage not supporting an EF5 rating, which I have to disagree with. However I did scour the internet and found a whole load of really interesting photos from the Concord-Pleasant Grove area and also near Peterson, I have to say in a couple of them the damage almost screams EF5.
Huh, maybe I'm overlooking something then. I'm not an expert on home construction or anything but perhaps a home's walls can be well attached enough to a subfloor as to make it eligible for an EF5 rating? I do know there were some homes in Greensburg and Joplin that fit this category that were rated EF5.

I will say I DEFINITELY disagree with the "oh, some trees were left standing nearby? EF4" approach to surveying.
 
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
767
Location
texas
Huh, maybe I'm overlooking something then. I'm not an expert on home construction or anything but perhaps a home's walls can be well attached enough to a subfloor as to make it eligible for an EF5 rating? I do know there were some homes in Greensburg and Joplin that fit this category that were rated EF5.

I will say I DEFINITELY disagree with the "oh, some trees were left standing nearby? EF4" approach to surveying.
same dude. i've always hated that argument. some tree species are extremely resilient and resist tornadic winds really well.
 

Western_KS_Wx

Member
Messages
207
Reaction score
586
Location
Garden City KS
Huh, maybe I'm overlooking something then. I'm not an expert on home construction or anything but perhaps a home's walls can be well attached enough to a subfloor as to make it eligible for an EF5 rating? I do know there were some homes in Greensburg and Joplin that fit this category that were rated EF5.

I will say I DEFINITELY disagree with the "oh, some trees were left standing nearby? EF4" approach to surveying.
I disagree with it mainly in part because the trees were definitely not standing near the home whatsoever, in fact if the trees weren’t completely mowed down they were severely denuded and partially debarked. I will say I was pretty surprised with how intense the damage was in Concord and Pleasant Grove, looks really similar to what was left behind in Hackleburg and by some of the other EF5’s that day.
 
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
767
Location
texas
I disagree with it mainly in part because the trees were definitely not standing near the home whatsoever, in fact if the trees weren’t completely mowed down they were severely denuded and partially debarked. I will say I was pretty surprised with how intense the damage was in Concord and Pleasant Grove, looks really similar to what was left behind in Hackleburg and by some of the other EF5’s that day.
woah
 

Western_KS_Wx

Member
Messages
207
Reaction score
586
Location
Garden City KS
Intense tree damage from the Ohatchee tornado. Vehicles were badly mangled in this area as well.
edit: Some of these are from Pleasant Grove.





The 2nd, 3rd, and last one are from Pleasant Grove, but yeah Shoal Creek/Ohatchee was definitely extremely intense in its own right and had EF5 potential. The whole Tuscaloosa supercell was just plain nutty, in addition to the two extremely long track and violent EF4’s, another EF3 occurred after Shoal Creek in Georgia that was also probably violent and another long-track EF3 near Mountain City that produced some really impressive tree damage.
 
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
767
Location
texas
The 2nd, 3rd, and last one are from Pleasant Grove, but yeah Shoal Creek/Ohatchee was definitely extremely intense in its own right and had EF5 potential. The whole Tuscaloosa supercell was just plain nutty, in addition to the two extremely long track and violent EF4’s, another EF3 occurred after Shoal Creek in Georgia that was also probably violent and another long-track EF3 near Mountain City that produced some really impressive tree damage.
then again the Philadelphia, Sipsey, Rainsville, Ringgold cell was likely more nuts
 
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
767
Location
texas
that finished Tuscaloosa path is gonna be nuts to study. i viewed nelson tuckers path but its so low res on the tornado talk website and you cant actually view it in context to damage aerials so it sucks. you can't extract it. you cant do anything to make viewing it easy.
 

CalebRoutt

Member
Messages
75
Reaction score
95
Location
Kentucky
Thanks for posting these, I hadn't seen most of those photos before. From the photos it appears the home's foundation had a CMU perimeter with bolts securing the sill plating to the top of the blocks? Definitely unusual construction, not sure how it would have helped or hurt the home's ability to withstand tornadic winds though.

I will say the contextual damage in that area easily pointed to a high end 4 with the debarking and wind rowing.
Wasnt just wind rowing, vehicles were thrown hundreds of yards and destroyed, other homes around here were razed I havent sent the other photos. There's definitely at least justification for EF5 here, and at the candle factory.
 

Western_KS_Wx

Member
Messages
207
Reaction score
586
Location
Garden City KS
Here’s some of the damage photos from Concord-Pleasant Grove that I feel really show just how violent the tornado was in these areas.
A6AC49F3-1783-4BAF-89B0-EC578216B1A9.jpeg
Even low-lying shrubs were completely debarked.
937D3CF6-2840-4A11-B887-97A1060DC551.jpeg
This ones from Peterson near Tuscaloosa and shows a home completely swept clean on the left and a obliterated store to the right, along with trees being completely debarked.
979D22D8-BBBD-43F8-A1AA-E5924430021F.jpeg
DD372816-7137-4A7F-8570-372D6EB25F5F.jpeg
1F84543D-B7A0-4CE2-83EE-6D599BBC1737.jpeg
C80E6A4B-5239-4FAB-A996-FF426714DFD4.jpeg3DA2F9F1-85D9-432E-BB5E-9C21FBFC5A49.jpeg72FA4A82-6FB1-4DB2-B1E7-D89373227040.jpeg
DAECE4A7-A247-4CFF-B0E0-79AB5E19CBF2.jpeg
Just some of the many examples of extreme damage throughout Concord and Pleasant Grove. I believe the tornado hit EF5 intensity several times along the track likely first peaking near Peterson, then again in Concord, and once more during its passage through Pleasant Grove. Considering the forward speed which was 50-60mph, the damage was very likely done in just seconds.

Also here’s a video I found from Pleasant Grove showing the tornado approaching 9th Terrace at probable EF5 intensity, the roar of the tornado is simply unreal. https://youtube.com/shorts/zXVuDf64g9c?feature=share
 
Last edited:
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
767
Location
texas
Here’s some of the damage photos from Concord-Pleasant Grove that I feel really show just how violent the tornado was in these areas.
View attachment 14966
Even low-lying shrubs were completely debarked.
View attachment 14968
This ones from Peterson near Tuscaloosa and shows a home completely swept clean on the left and a obliterated store to the right, along with trees being completely debarked.
View attachment 14969
View attachment 14970
View attachment 14971
View attachment 14972View attachment 14973View attachment 14974
View attachment 14975
Just some of the many examples of extreme damage throughout Concord and Pleasant Grove. I believe the tornado hit EF5 intensity several times along the track likely first peaking near Peterson, then again in Concord, and once more during its passage through Pleasant Grove. Considering the forward speed which was 50-60mph, the damage was very likely done in just seconds.

Also here’s a video I found from Pleasant Grove showing the tornado approaching 9th Terrace at probable EF5 intensity, the roar of the tornado is simply unreal. https://youtube.com/shorts/zXVuDf64g9c?feature=share
you said your mapping moore 13' and joplin right?
 
Messages
2,157
Reaction score
2,713
Location
Missouri
Found some more damage photographs from the Oologah, OK tornado of the 1991 Plains Outbreak. For some reason it's hard to find damage photographs that don't involve the high school. Crazy detail about this detail is that it did $15 million in damage, $12 million alone to the school complex.

Assorted pics of damage at the school:

Oologah 13.png


Oologah 14.png


Oologah 15.png

Oologah 16.png

Oologah 17.png

Mangled school bus:


Oologah 12.png

I'd love to get a hold of damage photos from the various houses and farms this thing destroyed. Of course from this outbreak I'd also love to find damage photographs from Red Rock and photographs from Skiatook, Winfield and the hardest hit areas of Andover.


NWS entry on Oologah:

Screenshot 2022-08-04 at 10-12-40 Rogers County OK Tornadoes (1875-Present).png
 
Last edited:
Messages
2,157
Reaction score
2,713
Location
Missouri
I was reading Storm Data last night and the entry on Red Rock tornado caught my eye, some impressive feats of damage mentioned with it I've never seen discussed anywhere else or damage pics of it.

Screenshot 2022-08-04 at 10-20-20 storm_1991_04.pdf.png

I've never seen damage pics of the oil rig mentioned here, or the destroyed homes, oil tanks, well pumps and snapped power poles, debarked trees or the county roads scoured of asphalt. The stuff about the oil rig and scoured asphalt, combined with the tornado's longevity and record-breaking gust of wind documented by Howard Bluestein and his team makes me wonder if Red Rock had El Reno (2011) levels of intensity but simply by virtue of being over open country never achieved full potential (thankfully).
 
Back
Top