Significant Tornado Events

[locomusic01]

Given the isolation of the parent, cyclic supercell, I would suggest that some of the “downburst”-attributed damage was actually related to additional tornadoes that formed past Udall.

The damage path (such as it was) grew to several miles wide but was mostly pretty light. I wouldn't be surprised if there were additional touchdowns at some point, but I haven't really found much evidence for it yet.

The more I think about it given Udall's official path length is 56 miles I think it was 2 separate tornadoes, 56 miles is really long (and rare) for a plains tornado. Especially given the time of year it occurred (May) where storm systems are pretty slow-moving usually.

The official path includes the whole long swath of (likely) downburst damage north and east of town; the actual path was closer to 35 miles. I still suspect there may have been two separate tornadoes just because there are a lot of damage points through the middle section of the path (roughly between Adamsville and Whitman) that don't make any sense for a single tornado, but I don't have enough information to work out the details yet.

 

[locomusic01]

The link for the Texas film archive collection has been posted before, but for anyone who hasn't seen it, the film of the '64 Wichita Falls F5 is very impressive, it reminds me a lot of the very close videos from modern storm chasers and gives a good perspective on how slow moving it was.

https://texasarchive.org/2018_03012

It also represents an opportunity to show how appalling the tracks in NOAA's Storm Events Database are (and some problems with reconstructing a track with descriptions). The solid line is the offical track from Tornado Archive, the dashed is my rough estimate.
The reports have it touching down near and north of the (now removed) intersection of Seymour and 369. This would mean a path of closer to 8 miles than the reported 5.6, and the database track is only 4.7 miles, having lost 0.9 somewhere. From there the track crossed Sunset Ln. Grazulis has it ending just before the Sheppard AFB school, but this seems inconsistent with reports of a hanger being damaged. The actual track likely wouldn't have been straight and probably went a little north of where I have it.
I'm actually surprised there isn't a map available as it was a very notable event, but a cursory search failed to find one. In any case you can see just how ludicrously off the location NOAA track is, and the heading isn't too good either. Their track would have been an even more notable event, to say the least.

View attachment 14530

The official database is so bad lol. I was sketching out a preliminary path for the Colfax F5 last night and I checked the official path out of curiosity; I was surprised to find it's actually pretty accurate compared to many others, yet the path doesn't even come particularly close to the town the tornado's literally named after.

 

[TH2002]

I've always pondered over this photo ever since I first saw it over a decade ago, so much so that it's literally become nostalgic to look at lol. NOAA lists it as a photo of a tornado near OKC on Feb. 10, 2009, though the classic cars and general graininess of the photo makes me wonder if it actually predates that. I've also seen some people float the idea that the photo is a fake, and if so then it's an EXTREMELY convincing fake, so much so to even fool NOAA.

On another note, February 10 is the same date as the infamous Lone Grove EF4, which is quite poorly documented for such a recent tornado. At least the damage is, I honestly haven't been able to find any photos of the structures/contextual damage that led the surveyors to conclude EF4, and I have a feeling it would get a 3 by today's standards. The tornado funnel itself was surprisingly well documented, however:

 

[A Guy]

The official database is so bad lol. I was sketching out a preliminary path for the Colfax F5 last night and I checked the official path out of curiosity; I was surprised to find it's actually pretty accurate compared to many others, yet the path doesn't even come particularly close to the town the tornado's literally named after.

One thing I've noticed, although hardly universal (the Wichita Falls F5 being an example of the opposite), it's most common for the tracks to be displaced northwest of their actual locations.

 

[locomusic01]

One thing I've noticed, although hardly universal (the Wichita Falls F5 being an example of the opposite), it's most common for the tracks to be displaced northwest of their actual locations.

Yeah, I think part of it is probably an artifact of only using straight lines between start and end points. Since tornadoes often start to recurve as they occlude, it ends up pushing those lines a lot further north/northwest. Of course, the start and end points themselves are often wrong as well.

 

[A Guy]

Yeah, I think part of it is probably an artifact of only using straight lines between start and end points. Since tornadoes often start to recurve as they occlude, it ends up pushing those lines a lot further north/northwest. Of course, the start and end points themselves are often wrong as well.

It's a bit more than just not accounting for curvature - and that varies widely between tornadoes. As you note both the start and end points - whose location shouldn't be affected by track curvature - are often well off. I'm not sure what could cause a systematic error like that, I wondered if it was some kind of rounding on the coordinates.

 

[locomusic01]

It's a bit more than just not accounting for curvature - and that varies widely between tornadoes. As you note both the start and end points - whose location shouldn't be affected by track curvature - are often well off. I'm not sure what could cause a systematic error like that, I wondered if it was some kind of rounding on the coordinates.

That's a good point; I'm not sure how the coordinates are recorded. A lot of the path lengths are wonky too, which is weird. Not only do they not reflect the actual paths, but many times they don't even match the lengths of the paths given in the database.

Like Flint-Beecher, for instance. Obviously the actual path was significantly different from the one in the database (which I just marked here with the measuring tool). The real path was about 31.5 miles, while the official path length is 18.9 miles. But as you can see, if you measure the "official" path, it comes out to.. 22.14 miles.

If there's some kind of issue with the way start/end coordinates are recorded, that might explain the difference in measurements.

 

[locomusic01]

So, would y'all be interested in some video content at some point? I've been wanting to branch out a bit into video for a long time and I think it'd be a good format for smaller events especially. I don't actually know much about making videos, but impulsively getting in over my head is kinda my thing. I used to do some freelance voiceover work and I occasionally write video scripts so that aspect of it shouldn't be a problem. Ideally I'd like to figure out how to do some neat stuff with animated maps and whatnot but that's probably not totally necessary. And there's actually more home videos and newsreels and whatnot out there than I would've expected, even for some older events.

Anyway, I just realized I'm rambling to myself now.

 

[TH2002]

So, would y'all be interested in some video content at some point? I've been wanting to branch out a bit into video for a long time and I think it'd be a good format for smaller events especially. I don't actually know much about making videos, but impulsively getting in over my head is kinda my thing. I used to do some freelance voiceover work and I occasionally write video scripts so that aspect of it shouldn't be a problem. Ideally I'd like to figure out how to do some neat stuff with animated maps and whatnot but that's probably not totally necessary. And there's actually more home videos and newsreels and whatnot out there than I would've expected, even for some older events.

Anyway, I just realized I'm rambling to myself now.

I've been using good ol' Windows Movie Maker (2.1.4028, one of the original versions that came with Windows XP) for as long as I can remember - I know I installed an extension at some point that allows 720p and 1080p exports, and throw in some simple fonts on top of Basic Titles with none of the corny effects - no one was ever able to tell I used something as simple (and stigmatized) as WMM!

Of course, you do have the option of using Sony Vegas or one of the other "professional" video editing programs, though for something as simple as a short tornado documentary I really, honestly think Movie Maker still suffices.

 

[TH2002]

Not sure how these clips flew under my radar for so long, but this (particularly the second clip) has got to be some of the most impressive closeup footage I've seen of a Cali tornado. The second one was apparently taken right as it crossed the 215 freeway, derailing train cars and throwing a semi-truck and trailer 40 feet through the air, so this guy was definitely lucky.

 

[locomusic01]

I've been using good ol' Windows Movie Maker (2.1.4028, one of the original versions that came with Windows XP) for as long as I can remember - I know I installed an extension at some point that allows 720p and 1080p exports, and throw in some simple fonts on top of Basic Titles with none of the corny effects - no one was ever able to tell I used something as simple (and stigmatized) as WMM!

Of course, you do have the option of using Sony Vegas or one of the other "professional" video editing programs, though for something as simple as a short tornado documentary I really, honestly think Movie Maker still suffices.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[Sawmaster]

So, would y'all be interested in some video content at some point? I've been wanting to branch out a bit into video for a long time and I think it'd be a good format for smaller events especially. I don't actually know much about making videos, but impulsively getting in over my head is kinda my thing. I used to do some freelance voiceover work and I occasionally write video scripts so that aspect of it shouldn't be a problem. Ideally I'd like to figure out how to do some neat stuff with animated maps and whatnot but that's probably not totally necessary. And there's actually more home videos and newsreels and whatnot out there than I would've expected, even for some older events.

Anyway, I just realized I'm rambling to myself now.

Ramble on, I find that a lot of times it produces some good ideas

Of very recent times there's been a huge increase in YouTube tornado vid compilations; a year ago only a few existed. Now you get start-to-finish showing every vid of the tornado, often with mapping and path lines and strength indicators too. Sometimes original audio, sometimes a scripted soundtrack. It has to take one heck of a lot of work to do one of those, but they're only about "famous" tornadoes- not smaller or less-known events. Gotta be very careful not to step on copyright toes on YT now; you get a strike and a takedown without warning and without being given a chance to defend yourself One of the first guys to do these almost lost his channel because of that.

Doing similar with lesser-known events might have a place there, especially with a good storyline. I think the 5+ channels focused on these compilations now will either end up with doing those or turn toward other subjects to keep revenue up; there's not really that many well-known extreme tornadoes to cover. Maybe another venue would suit you more- I don't know as I don't go to those places. Someone's going to do them all eventually so it might be worth your doing.

Phil

 

[locomusic01]

Ramble on, I find that a lot of times it produces some good ideas

Of very recent times there's been a huge increase in YouTube tornado vid compilations; a year ago only a few existed. Now you get start-to-finish showing every vid of the tornado, often with mapping and path lines and strength indicators too. Sometimes original audio, sometimes a scripted soundtrack. It has to take one heck of a lot of work to do one of those, but they're only about "famous" tornadoes- not smaller or less-known events. Gotta be very careful not to step on copyright toes on YT now; you get a strike and a takedown without warning and without being given a chance to defend yourself One of the first guys to do these almost lost his channel because of that.

Doing similar with lesser-known events might have a place there, especially with a good storyline. I think the 5+ channels focused on these compilations now will either end up with doing those or turn toward other subjects to keep revenue up; there's not really that many well-known extreme tornadoes to cover. Maybe another venue would suit you more- I don't know as I don't go to those places. Someone's going to do them all eventually so it might be worth your doing.

Phil

Yeah, I've seen a few of those - I think on Smithville and Moore '13, IIRC. Really cool stuff. I'm thinking more along the lines of documentary-style videos, sort of a more visual (and hopefully more digestible) version of my articles. I was actually thinking about starting with one of the events I've written about so that I could play around with the format without having to waste a ton of time on research beforehand. Maybe even re-interview some of the people I've talked to and record the audio to mix in with narration. I dunno. There's just not enough time in the day to do everything I wanna do lol

On an unrelated note, anybody know which tornado this is from? I know it's from the June 11-12, 1915 outbreak but I didn't sort it properly so now I don't remember if it's from the Mullinville, KS F5 or one of the IA/WI F4s. I wanna say it's from the Reedsburg, WI F4 but I'm not sure.

 

[locomusic01]

We've talked before about near-misses that could've been major disasters, but for some reason the Hudsonville-Standale F5 never really comes to mind in that context, at least for me. I knew it was a pretty close call for Grand Rapids, but I guess I never realized just how close until I mapped it out. Less than 3.5 miles further southeast and it would've gone straight through the heart of the city, which was very nearly the same size in 1956 (approx. 177k) as it is now. In fact, it would've basically cut right across the whole metro area, including Grandville (pop. ~6k in 1956). And it would've done so at F5 intensity.

Edit: I don't think most people are as fascinated with this sort of thing as I am, but here's the (very much WIP) map for the Hudsonville outbreak. Only got the Michigan tornadoes so far, but they should be reasonably accurate (although Grand Traverse Bay and/or Bangor-Lowell may have been tornado families) and the deaths are in the right places.

April 2-3, 1956 Outbreak Sequence - Google My Maps

April 2-3, 1956 Outbreak Sequence

www.google.com

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

We've talked before about near-misses that could've been major disasters, but for some reason the Hudsonville-Standale F5 never really comes to mind in that context, at least for me. I knew it was a pretty close call for Grand Rapids, but I guess I never realized just how close until I mapped it out. Less than 3.5 miles further southeast and it would've gone straight through the heart of the city, which was very nearly the same size in 1956 (approx. 177k) as it is now. In fact, it would've basically cut right across the whole metro area, including Grandville (pop. ~6k in 1956). And it would've done so at F5 intensity.

Edit: I don't think most people are as fascinated with this sort of thing as I am, but here's the (very much WIP) map for the Hudsonville outbreak. Only got the Michigan tornadoes so far, but they should be reasonably accurate (although Grand Traverse Bay and/or Bangor-Lowell may have been tornado families) and the deaths are in the right places.

April 2-3, 1956 Outbreak Sequence - Google My Maps

April 2-3, 1956 Outbreak Sequence

www.google.com

Michigan/Upper Midwest outbreaks fascinate me, as they're pretty rare (especially after Palm Sunday 1965 it seems) so violent tornadoes this far north in the states are seriously underrated in terms of attention and just how intense they really were. I guess you've picked your next article lol.

 

[locomusic01]

I guess you've picked your next article lol.

Nah I still can't make up my mind so I figured I'd start digging into a few events and see what grabs me. I kinda do wanna go with Hudsonville because it was absurdly violent and I've got a lot of material already, but the rest of the outbreak really deserves to be covered too, and all of a sudden there I go getting in over my head again lol

Anyway I've managed to narrow it down from like a dozen topics to maybe half a dozen, so.. I guess that's progress?

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Nah I still can't make up my mind so I figured I'd start digging into a few events and see what grabs me. I kinda do wanna go with Hudsonville because it was absurdly violent and I've got a lot of material already, but the rest of the outbreak really deserves to be covered too, and all of a sudden there I go getting in over my head again lol

Anyway I've managed to narrow it down from like a dozen topics to maybe half a dozen, so.. I guess that's progress?

The 1956 Hudsonville outbreak would be a great topic for a smaller article (probably need to stick away from writing novels for awhile lol). Probably focusing mainly on the F3+ tornadoes that day would be the best. Oh, and if Hudsonville was a tornado family, where do you think the break in the path likely was?
For me, I'd say either this outbreak, 1944 Appalachians outbreak or an obscure Dixie outbreak from 1900-1930 would be the best for older events. For newer events, the 1998 Kissimmee tornado outbreak probably needs an article, as you don't often see that kind of violence in Florida. Welp there I go again with "narrowing" it down for you and undoubtedly doing wonders for your mental and physical well being lol.

 

[locomusic01]

The 1956 Hudsonville outbreak would be a great topic for a smaller article (probably need to stick away from writing novels for awhile lol). Probably focusing mainly on the F3+ tornadoes that day would be the best. Oh, and if Hudsonville was a tornado family, where do you think the break in the path likely was?
For me, I'd say either this outbreak, 1944 Appalachians outbreak or an obscure Dixie outbreak from 1900-1930 would be the best for older events. For newer events, the 1998 Kissimmee tornado outbreak probably needs an article, as you don't often see that kind of violence in Florida. Welp there I go again with "narrowing" it down for you and undoubtedly doing wonders for your mental and physical well being lol.

The Hudsonville outbreak sequence was actually pretty significant. I've got a pretty good start on the 4/3 Michigan tornadoes so that isn't a problem. I've got some stuff on Davenport-Drumright, OK and a little bit on the huge Newkirk-Grenola-Toronto family, but not nearly enough to cover it the way I want. That family alone featured multiple large, violent tornadoes (including a possible F5), and that's not even mentioning the F4 that struck parts of OK-KS-MO, the Berlin, WI F4, the Lexington, TN F4 and a handful of other F3s. It'd be manageable if I knew I could find enough photos and whatnot but I suspect some of those are gonna be really tough.

The only break w/Hudsonville is with the Holland F4, which is officially counted as the same tornado. The Grand Traverse Bay F4 may've had a break southwest of Lake Ann and possibly another up around Lake Leelanau but I'm not sure yet. The Bangor-Lowell F3 probably had a break southeast of Wayland, around where the path gets kinda squirrely.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Maybe we should start an off topic thread to discuss music? Think it's actually a good idea tbh.


Some photos I hadn't seen before in that post, including an alternate angle of that brand new home in Goldsby. In Tim Marshall's presentation differentiating EF4 and EF5 damage (can't find the slides at the moment but I'm sure they're still out there) I specifically remember that on the slide "That's why context is so important" this house is pictured at an angle where the scouring isn't visible and he writes "the fence is still standing and no scouring"... well, doesn't it look like there actually WAS scouring next to that home?

Would Tim Marshall actually lie about the scouring that occurred near this house or did he simply make a mistake? I'll leave that to speculation, though in a PDF I found a whole different reason for the downgrade is given: apparently the "small washers" are what prevented an EF5 rating. Vague and probably BS, and when the reasons to keep an obvious EF5 rating at EF4 sound desperate to the point of hilarity, maybe it's time to realize that ya dun goofed.

I went ahead and started a music thread, so let's try and make it work:

Music

Based on some brief discussions and comments in other threads, I've finally decided to start a thread to discuss music and the like. If you've been to any awesome concerts, have any autographs, photos with band members, etc. feel free to post pictures/share stories. Also, recommendations of...

talkweather.com

 

[Western_KS_Wx]

On the 8th anniversary of the Pilger tornado family thought I’d share some of the pretty intense damage left behind by the 2nd EF4 in this family, the Pilger tornado. In my opinion this tornado probably had winds in the EF5 range during its passage through the town, almost every building impacted by this tornadoes narrow core was completely obliterated including a large church that was swept cleanly away. Ground scouring, debris granulation, tree debarking, and wind-rowing of debris also occurred.