I did somehow pick up years ago the photo was from 1913 - I don't remember how so I didn't mention it (but you can see it in the file name lol) but that doesn't clear up where it's from.
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Significant Tornado Events
- Thread starter locomusic01
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locomusic01
Member
I've seen this photo labeled as the 5/14/13 Seward, NE F4 before but I have no idea if that's accurate.
It'd make more sense at least.
Also holy **** the Library of Congress's search function is bad compared to Trove's.
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- #7,504
locomusic01
Member
Trove is awesome. I got spoiled using it for Cyclone Mahina.
Marshal79344
Member
I have some unique data regarding Udall that I'd like to share with you all.
I found a paper on JSTOR that showed these PPI reflectivity scans of the Blackwell-Udall Supercell, although this particular one (the left of the two) was taken the instant that the tornado hit Udall.
Is it just me, or is this resemblance quite uncanny?
Here's also a lot of aerials of Udall I pulled from gettyimages.com before they were taken down
I found a paper on JSTOR that showed these PPI reflectivity scans of the Blackwell-Udall Supercell, although this particular one (the left of the two) was taken the instant that the tornado hit Udall.
Is it just me, or is this resemblance quite uncanny?
Here's also a lot of aerials of Udall I pulled from gettyimages.com before they were taken down
It seems to me that the tornado weaken siginificantly going through the town. I am always wandering the possiblity that Udall tornado may peaked south of the town.
And yet another case of high end tornado encountered railway but barely did any noticable damage from aerial. The shear force It takes to move large section of railway in Chapman case still amazed me.
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locomusic01
Member
The entire evolution of both events (at least as far as can be gleaned from the ancient radar sequence) is pretty striking. Also pretty notable that a number of people reported seeing multiple tornadoes, sometimes even well away from the main path. I'm not sure if it could ever be shown definitively at this point, but I suspect the Blackwell-Udall storm - like Greensburg - was also a pretty prolific producer of satellite spin-ups.
The very worst of the destruction definitely occurred on the south side of Udall (which is where, among other things, the grade school was totally obliterated and the famous photo of the mangled truck frame wrapped around the tree was taken), though there was violent damage all through town. Not sure yet what the situation was south of town, but it doesn't look like there would've been much to hit. Well, aside from the home I mentioned north of Oxford, if that was even the same tornado.
Sawmaster
Member
In times long passed, the average person knew little of tornadoes as education resources weren't available and folklore ruled the field. I'm not sure was can hold the reports from those times as credible, as landspouts, gustnadoes, downbursts, and SLC's would have easily been misidentified. More recent times like Udall and Greensburg there was much more valid and widespread knowledge, but still some lack of understanding. I think we can hold those newer reports as at least mostly credible.
As with so many other things I am amazed at the advances which have happened in my lifetime, which by themselves equal or surpass everything in all of prior history in importance. This is one of the reasons I find the subject of tornadoes so fascinating, for I have watched that as it occurred. At this pace of advancement (if it continues and I live long enough) I might even become witness to accurate tornado warnings hours before they develop; something I no longer see as impossible.
Phil
Juliett Bravo Kilo
Member
I wonder if Blackwell-Udall supercell spawned 3-4 massive wedges in rapid succession but only 2 were reported as they hit populated areas and others just went over open farmland or the vast prairies and thus weren't noticed. There was also likely many short-lived satellites spawned too. This has all the hallmarks of Greensburg; a violent nocturnal event of massive wedges. Come to think of it, the Glazier-Higgins-Woodward had a similar setup too, I believe. Only difference there is that one of the tornadoes tracked along a boundary like the Tri-State did, which made it so much worse.
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locomusic01
Member
Well, that's the one thing that's pretty unique about Greensburg - the tornadoes were absolutely ginormous. It seems like Blackwell was probably around three-quarters of a mile wide at its largest and Udall was about a mile, although it's hard to say for sure since most of both paths were over open farmland. Still very large tornadoes, but not as freakishly huge as the Greensburg family. Almost certainly stronger, though.
I'd love to find more on the F4 down in the Shamrock/Sweetwater area earlier in the day too. It was another long-tracker (just under 50 miles if it was a single tornado) and it appears it might've been well over a mile wide. Mostly hit a handful of rural farmsteads.
Juliett Bravo Kilo
Member
I get the impression that with the Greensburg cell they were all basically whole mesocyclones on the ground; given how flat the land is I doubt elevation would've played a role in widening them. I wonder what caused that?
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Juliett Bravo Kilo
Member
From an FB page from Ontario; the funnel might be partially visible.
The original photo that I've posted before. The white speck is actually a piece of debris:
2 cropped versions of the photo with modern street view:
A zoomed in pic:
Not entirely sure if you could prove this or not, but it reminds me of footage from those in the direct path of Joplin. Eerie.
Link to page:
www.facebook.com
The original photo that I've posted before. The white speck is actually a piece of debris:
2 cropped versions of the photo with modern street view:
A zoomed in pic:
Not entirely sure if you could prove this or not, but it reminds me of footage from those in the direct path of Joplin. Eerie.
Link to page:
Ontario Storm Watch
Ontario Storm Watch. 301,238 likes · 9,260 talking about this. Ontario's independent and community-driven weather organization since 2013 ⛈️
www.facebook.com
Lake Martin EF4
Member
Yeah, I had my suspicions on that dark area on the left even since I first saw this photo. Glad to know I'm correct.From an FB page from Ontario; the funnel might be partially visible.
The original photo that I've posted before. The white speck is actually a piece of debris:
View attachment 14520
2 cropped versions of the photo with modern street view:
View attachment 14521
View attachment 14522
A zoomed in pic:
View attachment 14523
Not entirely sure if you could prove this or not, but it reminds me of footage from those in the direct path of Joplin. Eerie.
Link to page:
Ontario Storm Watch
Ontario Storm Watch. 301,238 likes · 9,260 talking about this. Ontario's independent and community-driven weather organization since 2013 ⛈️
Western_KS_Wx
Member
The resemblance to May 4, 2007 is uncanny to say the least. Greensburg almost 100% peaked outside of town and inflicted its most violent damage to the very southern side of Greensburg also while obliterating an Elementary School in the same area. The radar image, the curling left while occluding (Blackwell did this as well), among other things is all basically a carbon-copy of May 4, 2007.
Here’s the elementary school that was destroyed in Greensburg also.
Lake Martin EF4
Member
Checking the location where it was shot and yep, that's definitely gotta be the funnel. Looks like it's from when it was pummeling Tyndale Park.From an FB page from Ontario; the funnel might be partially visible.
The original photo that I've posted before. The white speck is actually a piece of debris:
View attachment 14520
2 cropped versions of the photo with modern street view:
View attachment 14521
View attachment 14522
A zoomed in pic:
View attachment 14523
Not entirely sure if you could prove this or not, but it reminds me of footage from those in the direct path of Joplin. Eerie.
Link to page:
Ontario Storm Watch
Ontario Storm Watch. 301,238 likes · 9,260 talking about this. Ontario's independent and community-driven weather organization since 2013 ⛈️
- Thread starter
- #7,516
locomusic01
Member
As best as I could tell, I figured the maybe-funnel would've been out over Kempenfelt Bay from that perspective, like probably two miles or so SW of Shanty Bay. I wasn't confident enough to call it a shot of the tornado in my article (although I did mean to include/discuss it - whoops), but I do think it's possible. I talked to a couple of people who lived along the north shore there who said they thought they saw a tornado still on the ground (or the water, as it were), which is why I took the track a few miles out over the bay.
There was actually some minor damage on the opposite shore around the Oro Lea Beach area, which is a couple miles further to the northeast, but I think that was probably straight-line winds. In any event, it's kind of a bummer we'll probably never know for certain exactly what happened once the tornado moved out over the water.
There was actually some minor damage on the opposite shore around the Oro Lea Beach area, which is a couple miles further to the northeast, but I think that was probably straight-line winds. In any event, it's kind of a bummer we'll probably never know for certain exactly what happened once the tornado moved out over the water.
- Thread starter
- #7,517
locomusic01
Member
Casuarina Head
Member
In the above image one can clearly discern the path of the multiple-vortex tornado based on the scouring over open fields to the right of centre. Based on the alignment of streets with Google Maps, this aerial was taken just north-northwest of Udall, beyond the intersection of County Roads 15 and 55 (which is visible near the bottom-left edge of the photograph), and is facing south-southeastward, offering a panoramic view of the entire town and the tornado’s immediate path/impact. The tornado was rather clearly converging on the photographer’s location, confirming that it was proceeding north-northeastward as it struck Udall. The question is whether the tornado continued much farther beyond Udall’s limits. Based on available DIs, it was clearly weakening as it crossed the railroad tracks and entered the northern half of town. The extreme (that is, E/F5-worthy) vehicular damage, granulation, debarking, slabbing, and so on were confined to the southern half of town. However, the overall trajectory of the tornado does not seem to change appreciably as it enters and exits town, suggesting a gradual weakening but not final occlusion. Given its parent supercell’s structural similarity to that of the Greensburg EF5, the Udall tornado probably did not last very long past town. It probably continued for a couple of miles or so while curving and looping over open fields before dissipating, with attendant downbursts and/or smaller tornadoes extending eastward. Given the isolation of the parent, cyclic supercell, I would suggest that some of the “downburst”-attributed damage was actually related to additional tornadoes that formed past Udall.
Juliett Bravo Kilo
Member
The more I think about it given Udall's official path length is 56 miles I think it was 2 separate tornadoes, 56 miles is really long (and rare) for a plains tornado. Especially given the time of year it occurred (May) where storm systems are pretty slow-moving usually.
The link for the Texas film archive collection has been posted before, but for anyone who hasn't seen it, the film of the '64 Wichita Falls F5 is very impressive, it reminds me a lot of the very close videos from modern storm chasers and gives a good perspective on how slow moving it was.
https://texasarchive.org/2018_03012
It also represents an opportunity to show how appalling the tracks in NOAA's Storm Events Database are (and some problems with reconstructing a track with descriptions). The solid line is the offical track from Tornado Archive, the dashed is my rough estimate.
The reports have it touching down near and north of the (now removed) intersection of Seymour and 369. This would mean a path of closer to 8 miles than the reported 5.6, and the database track is only 4.7 miles, having lost 0.9 somewhere. From there the track crossed Sunset Ln. Grazulis has it ending just before the Sheppard AFB school, but this seems inconsistent with reports of a hanger being damaged. The actual track likely wouldn't have been straight and probably went a little north of where I have it.
I'm actually surprised there isn't a map available as it was a very notable event, but a cursory search failed to find one. In any case you can see just how ludicrously off the location NOAA track is, and the heading isn't too good either. Their track would have been an even more notable event, to say the least.
https://texasarchive.org/2018_03012
It also represents an opportunity to show how appalling the tracks in NOAA's Storm Events Database are (and some problems with reconstructing a track with descriptions). The solid line is the offical track from Tornado Archive, the dashed is my rough estimate.
The reports have it touching down near and north of the (now removed) intersection of Seymour and 369. This would mean a path of closer to 8 miles than the reported 5.6, and the database track is only 4.7 miles, having lost 0.9 somewhere. From there the track crossed Sunset Ln. Grazulis has it ending just before the Sheppard AFB school, but this seems inconsistent with reports of a hanger being damaged. The actual track likely wouldn't have been straight and probably went a little north of where I have it.
I'm actually surprised there isn't a map available as it was a very notable event, but a cursory search failed to find one. In any case you can see just how ludicrously off the location NOAA track is, and the heading isn't too good either. Their track would have been an even more notable event, to say the least.
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