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Enhanced Fujita Ratings Debate Thread

joshoctober16 said:
wow 7 miles thrown??
that's more insane then Moore 2013 , Vilonia 2014 , new wren 2011 and the Bakersfield 1990

orange line is the distance thrown of a oil tank.
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In addition to this, it’s also very likely that the tank did multiple revolutions around the tornadic vortex, meaning it was definitely in the air for much longer than the straight line would insinuate. Greensburg was moving at a modest forward pace and was extremely large with a very wide breadth of strong to violent damage, so I wouldn’t be surprised if the tank was in the air for several minutes. That’s pretty insane to think about.
 
talking about Greensburg and throwing , there is one video that shows a glowing thing being thrown by one of the wedge EF3+ after it , however its only seen for 1 second.

i cant post the video since it wont let me but here is a snipit of this thing.

1759433703328.png

I'm unsure if this is the so call police car being thrown or a ball of lightning orbiting it.
 
Kds86z said:
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I’d probably forward this over to the Significant Tornado thread.

slenker said:
In addition to this, it’s also very likely that the tank did multiple revolutions around the tornadic vortex, meaning it was definitely in the air for much longer than the straight line would insinuate. Greensburg was moving at a modest forward pace and was extremely large with a very wide breadth of strong to violent damage, so I wouldn’t be surprised if the tank was in the air for several minutes. That’s pretty insane to think about.
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It wasn’t just one tank either, there’s at least 8 that I’ve been able to confirm landed within Greensburg. Like you pointed out, I’m almost positive those tanks were airborne the majority of the way, which is just insane. This whole thing is still hard to wrap my head around and still a little hard to believe, but I’ll make a post later when I have time delving into it more in the Sig Tornado thread.
joshoctober16 said:
talking about Greensburg and throwing , there is one video that shows a glowing thing being thrown by one of the wedge EF3+ after it , however its only seen for 1 second.

i cant post the video since it wont let me but here is a snipit of this thing.

View attachment 46864

I'm unsure if this is the so call police car being thrown or a ball of lightning orbiting it.
Click to expand...
Which video is this? I’m assuming the Shane Adams videos?
 
Western_KS_Wx said:
It wasn’t just one tank either, there’s at least 8 that I’ve been able to confirm landed within Greensburg. Like you pointed out, I’m almost positive those tanks were airborne the majority of the way, which is just insane. This whole thing is still hard to wrap my head around and still a little hard to believe, but I’ll make a post later when I have time delving into it more in the Sig Tornado thread.
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You know, I think I made a good choice putting this higher than Smithville in my Top 10 strongest tornadoes list
 
Hopefully with the “taboo” being broken, more and more offices will be more willing to cross the threshold if evidence calls for it.

I’m really glad they used contextual damage. It was always going to be extremely rare for a tornado to cleanly wipe an above code, well anchored home and then do an upper echelon contextual feat within a short distance of each other. Keeps the spirit of the original F scale alive where “incredible phenomena will occur” with 5s.

Also just wanted to reiterate the experts that FGF consulted:

The National Weather Service in Grand Forks would like to thank Tim Marshall, Jim LaDue, Dr. Connell Miller, Dr. Greg Kopp, Dr. David Sills, and the entire Northern Tornadoes Project at Western University's Canadian Severe Storms Laboratory team for their assistance.
 
Wow! I hope this starts the trend of using contextual damage to upgrade tornadoes again.

AND look at the names included in the upgrade process, it never fails to see Ladue/Marshall on these!

This seriously feels like the early 2010’s. I never thought we’d experience something like this again. 12 years.
 

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I’ve gotta say, of all the tornadoes I’d expect to be upgraded to EF5 this one was probably not near the top at all for me. But again I’ve got to give props to the NWS for really taking the time and effort to make sure they got the rating right and contacted as many experts as possible to come to the conclusion that EF5 was appropriate. It’s definitely an interesting case, as it would seem the rating is entirely based on the tanker railroad cars being lofted and even radar velocities being mentioned as well. You’ve gotta wonder what this upgrade will mean for the future of the scale.
 
Western_KS_Wx said:
I’ve gotta say, of all the tornadoes I’d expect to be upgraded to EF5 this one was probably not near the top at all for me. But again I’ve got to give props to the NWS for really taking the time and effort to make sure they got the rating right and contacted as many experts as possible to come to the conclusion that EF5 was appropriate. It’s definitely an interesting case, as it would seem the rating is entirely based on the tanker railroad cars being lofted and even radar velocities being mentioned as well. You’ve gotta wonder what this upgrade will mean for the future of the scale.
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There was also homes swept off their foundations with extreme contextual damage to trees, but the homes lacked proper anchoring (ditto). The tanker cars added confidence and made up for the improper structure. This is something that is similar to the El Reno EF5 from 2011, as no EF5 home damage occured, but the oil rig added confidence to the upgrade.
 
I'd have to hope this will perhaps inspire other offices to initiate post-mortems of other tornadoes from previous years. Not holding my breath, but I'm more hopeful now than I was before.
 
ColdFront said:
Crediting @Equus for this.

EF5 drought is over. Enderlin upgraded to EF5.

mesonet.agron.iastate.edu

IEM :: PNS from NWS FGF

PNS issued by NWS FGF at 06 Oct 2025 14:30 UTC
mesonet.agron.iastate.edu mesonet.agron.iastate.edu
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To be totally honest...I wasn't sure I'd ever see the day. The drought started a few months before I got into watching severe weather, and I'd started to have a feeling that the EF5 rating was just not going to be used anymore.

ColdFront said:
Hopefully with the “taboo” being broken, more and more offices will be more willing to cross the threshold if evidence calls for it.
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Let's be real, there are at least half a dozen EF4s over the last 12 years which should be upgraded, and the number of EF3s that should to be bumped up to EF4 is probably in the double digits.
 
I know in this era of staffing levels it's pretty incredible how hard FGF worked to analyze everything, maybe this helps break the EF5 stigma again and other offices are able to take a closer look when they have the staff and engineering assistance to do so
 
Northern Tornadoes Project was the crew that did such an excellent survey of the Didsbury tornado a couple years ago with extensive contextual analysis, I have to say I'm not at all surprised they had a hand in this one
 
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