Central Ohio Wx
Member
>210 low-bound, 266 high-bound.
-
Welcome to TalkWeather! We see you lurking around TalkWeather! Take the extra step and join us today to view attachments, see less ads and maybe even join the discussion. CLICK TO JOIN TALKWEATHER
Kds86z
Member
Stronger than Moore 2013?
Equus
Member
Yeah I think a lot of earlier train car tossing instances have been with empty train cars, Tuscaloosa tornado tossed empty coal cars while these were loaded grain cars and that makes a very big difference
Kds86z
Member
Kds86z
Member
Kds86z
Member
Kds86z
Member
I'm happy to be proven wrong here - I was one who believed Enderlin didn't deserve an EF5 rating. But I suppose the train car was more than enough evidence for the engineers to determine that or not. Great surveying and awesome to see them take into account such an incredible damage indicator.
Kds86z
Member
Central Ohio Wx
Member
Officially, yes. Unofficially, though, there is zero way Enderlin was stronger than Moore.
Absolutely agree with this, Enderlin is the definition of hitting the right thing at the right time. This is easily the weakest officially rated EF5, which isn't me saying it doesn't deserve the rating, it just doesn't have nearly as much EF5 evidence as the others did. Still great to see them actually pulling the trigger on it.
I'd love to see imagery of the trees they were talking about. I heard there was some evidence of very extreme tree damage but I have yet to see it. Even without it, though, the train car is enough.
Central Ohio Wx
Member
My list of strongest tornadoes this year, then:
- Enderlin (obviously)
- Diaz (honestly overrated, contextuals don't support a rating higher than 170-180)
- London
- Tylertown (if any other tornado deserved 190, it'd be this one, not Marion)
- Bakersfield
Central Ohio Wx
Member
Eh, Rainsville's probably weaker.
I certainly disagree, although to each their own, comparing EF5s is splitting hairs at this point. Rainsville has some really insane feats, but it's practically impossible to know whether or not Enderlin would've done something similar had it gone through the same area at the same time.
Equus
Member
Comparing high end tornadoes is very difficult objectively, not to mention the wildly varying WFO to WFO interpretation of the scale - and the rarity of hitting something measurable at absolute peak; it's rare to have something like this train car that can be quantified through math though, which is about all we can go by
Central Ohio Wx
Member
It's crazy actually seeing the EF5 damage line and knowing it's there to stay.
Also note how close it was to Fargo.
Central Ohio Wx
Member
On the anniversary, too! What are the odds.
It certainly marks a drastic shift in mindset from Tim Marshall and crew. Especially now that we've heard from Tim, and he even posted his own EF5 calculations. It's impossible to deny outside pressure played a role in his changed attitude. Having NOAA and the National Severe Storms Laboratory (Anthony Lyza) breathing down your neck will do that I guess.
It's especially refreshing to see it was a contextual indicator of all things that got the rating. This is a major positive step towards "fixing" a very broken system. Contextual indicators never should have been prohibited in the first place. It's worth noting Tim was involved with the Mayfield rating, and that tornado tipped fully loaded grain cars as well. Did he support an EF5 rating then? It doesn't appear so based on his post about it.
Enderlin didn't have any exceptionally unique debarking either. All the other top EF5 candidates had similar or worse debarking. There was absolutely nothing that puts this tornado above other EF5s (or EF5 candidates). It was strictly the mindset that changed. I enthusiastically welcome it, and it's worth celebrating, but it doesn't do anything to repair the 12 years of incorrect data and bad science that still needs corrected.
I certainly agree, although I believe they did actually find an area of high end debarking that they referred to as a "sandpapering" effect on the trees, which I have yet to see imagery of, unless they're referring to the grove right next to the train derailment. I find it difficult to believe that they would bring up the tree damage if it wasn't of EF5 or high end EF4 caliber, so I really want to know what they're referring to. Especially since it's Marshall and one of the big things he looks for is that type of damage surrounding other EF5 level damage.
I hope other tornadoes in the past get re-analyzed from this point forwards as well. It's certainly in the conversation now considering the fact that this tornado was rated EF5 based on something Tuscaloosa did, arguably even more impressively than this one (I could be wrong on this, don't remember the exact details, but it was a similar feat regardless).