Significant Tornado Events

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Scouring through newspapers.com again and found some interesting stuff on Guin; specifically its path through the William Bankhead National Forest. I've attached a screenshot below.





Interesting that the path is 57 miles long through the forest, I guess it really is that vast and expansive. Also interesting that 2 other tornado tracks were identified, could be satellites but given how far away they were from Guin's path I suspect they were separate tornadoes from the same supercell. Amazing that a supercell could spawn several tornadoes and all go through the same area at the same time. It's all pretty clear that this thing likely did Moshannon-level damage to the forest, yet I can't find any photos of the forest damage yet that are clear or at ground level. Another interesting note is that the path was wider at higher elevations but the damage was most extreme at the bottom of the valleys; perhaps the valleys construct the funnel and accelerate the wind speeds? I'd love to get surveys on this thing; it's amazing how little information there was on it until relatively recently and how there still is a big lack of info on it now.

 

[Sawmaster]

At 12 and 14 miles away from the core tornado could they indeed be from one supercell? That's too far for satellite tornadoes opriginating from the main core and all the twins/triplets I can recall have been much closer to each other. But given how intense this one was going through Guin perhaps it's possible. Kind of like the Tri-State event, this one didn't get enough attention and documentation beyond some localized reports. I sure wish it had received 2011-like coverage.

Since they're seeing this from an overhead perspective and in aftermath, there's no determination of time. Knowing how paths in this part of the world so often concur, parallel, or resemble each other I'm thinking 3 separate tornadoes and perhaps not even at the same time would be a more likely explanation. A very real possibility that they might not even have been from the same event- are there records of the ERTS-1 images of that area from the day before? Maybe radar images could help with assigning the timing or whether it was one supercell.

Still on my first coffee today so my brain ain't fully awake yet, but I seem to recall pics of the deforestation which are incredible, as if a giant bulldozer pushed over or uprooted every tree, sapling, and sprout across the path pretty much totally. Giun was a top-ten event for certain, and anything is possible.

 

[locomusic01]

Put together a quick mosaic from the 4/28/74 Landsat imagery:

Obviously the pinkish/purplish arrows are Guin. The blue arrows are the Jasper/Cullman F4. I assume the red arrow is the southern track mentioned above. I didn't look all that closely but the northern track might be the yellow arrow? I dunno. The 5/27/73 Brent-Centreville F4 is also quite clearly visible further southeast (green arrows).

Edit: The red arrow is in roughly the same area as the 3/25/64 Addison, AL F3 but it looks like that's the only other official tornado it could be. Seems fresher/clearer than that, but I've definitely seen tracks remain distinctly visible for that long.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Put together a quick mosaic from the 4/28/74 Landsat imagery:

Obviously the pinkish/purplish arrows are Guin. The blue arrows are the Jasper/Cullman F4. I assume the red arrow is the southern track mentioned above. I didn't look all that closely but the northern track might be the yellow arrow? I dunno. The 5/27/73 Brent-Centreville F4 is also quite clearly visible further southeast (green arrows).

Edit: The red arrow is in roughly the same area as the 3/25/64 Addison, AL F3 but it looks like that's the only other official tornado it could be. Seems fresher/clearer than that, but I've definitely seen tracks remain distinctly visible for that long.

Do you know the GPS coordinates for the Guin path? I'm trying to see if it's still visible on google earth like with Moshannon.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

At 12 and 14 miles away from the core tornado could they indeed be from one supercell? That's too far for satellite tornadoes opriginating from the main core and all the twins/triplets I can recall have been much closer to each other. But given how intense this one was going through Guin perhaps it's possible. Kind of like the Tri-State event, this one didn't get enough attention and documentation beyond some localized reports. I sure wish it had received 2011-like coverage.

Since they're seeing this from an overhead perspective and in aftermath, there's no determination of time. Knowing how paths in this part of the world so often concur, parallel, or resemble each other I'm thinking 3 separate tornadoes and perhaps not even at the same time would be a more likely explanation. A very real possibility that they might not even have been from the same event- are there records of the ERTS-1 images of that area from the day before? Maybe radar images could help with assigning the timing or whether it was one supercell.

Still on my first coffee today so my brain ain't fully awake yet, but I seem to recall pics of the deforestation which are incredible, as if a giant bulldozer pushed over or uprooted every tree, sapling, and sprout across the path pretty much totally. Giun was a top-ten event for certain, and anything is possible.

Sometimes I wonder if multivortex mesocyclones are a thing. Or maybe it was separate tornadoes from different cells that happened to pass over the same area.

 

[locomusic01]

Do you know the GPS coordinates for the Guin path? I'm trying to see if it's still visible on google earth like with Moshannon.

I don't think there's much there anymore, but the clearest section of the path was just west and north of Grayson - roughly around 34°17'18.44"N, 87°24'47.27"W.

Also, TIL there's apparently a place called Booger Tree, AL a bit southwest of Grayson. Do with that what you will.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

I don't think there's much there anymore, but the clearest section of the path was just west and north of Grayson - roughly around 34°17'18.44"N, 87°24'47.27"W.

Also, TIL there's apparently a place called Booger Tree, AL a bit southwest of Grayson. Do with that what you will.

"Booger" is Southern slang for "boogey" like "boogeyman" so it's mean to mean something colloquial like "Monster Tree", probably something from old folklore.
Yeah, interesting the place names you find.
Also, I've discovered that my home state of Missouri has two towns named Wheatland and Hermitage right next to each other, crazy coincidence there.
The path from Moshannon is still visible, so is High Uintas Wilderness, so I figured Guin's might be in parts. Looks like it's not, sadly. Or I'm just not looking clear enough or maybe portions of the forest have burned or whatever, so the path is no longer visible due to that.
Do you know how many trees, acres or timber was felled by Guin in the Bankhead Forest areas? Any reliable estimates out there?

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

I don't think there's much there anymore, but the clearest section of the path was just west and north of Grayson - roughly around 34°17'18.44"N, 87°24'47.27"W.

Also, TIL there's apparently a place called Booger Tree, AL a bit southwest of Grayson. Do with that what you will.

Why do you think Guin (and so much of the AL section from 4/3/74) is so poorly documented compared to so many other outbreaks from before and after? It's just really odd that such a historical event would be lost to time in the information age....

 

[Sawmaster]

Sometimes I wonder if multivortex mesocyclones are a thing. Or maybe it was separate tornadoes from different cells that happened to pass over the same area.

If you consider cycling then yes for sure, as there have been any number of times where one neso had two tornadoes going at the same time. I can't say for otherwise but I think it's happened- I can't recall any specific details though. My contention is just not 10+ miles apart, especially ywice that far from the outer two. If that indeed happened here it set a record on that point alone.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

If you consider cycling then yes for sure, as there have been any number of times where one neso had two tornadoes going at the same time. I can't say for otherwise but I think it's happened- I can't recall any specific details though. My contention is just not 10+ miles apart, especially ywice that far from the outer two. If that indeed happened here it set a record on that point alone.

There was a tornado back in 2011 that had six satellites in total.

Significant Tornado Events

During the latter part of the original F-scale's run in the United States (particularly from 2004-2006), many tornadoes were underrated and in my opinion the 2006 Gallatin tornado is one of them. This tornado was actually rated F4 initially but downgraded to F3 in subsequent surveys revealing...

talkweather.com

Stuff like this is what I mean by 'multivortex mesocyclone'.

 

[Lake Martin EF4]

Also, TIL there's apparently a place called Booger Tree, AL a bit southwest of Grayson. Do with that what you will.

Alabama's got a ton of weird names. For instance, there is Slapout/Holtville, and Needmore. And Muck City, and BURNT CORN. XD

There are also the two full name towns - Susan Moore and the infamous Phil Campbell, where apparently some post-2011 tornado responders uncovered a woman - with no eyes or clothes - completely covered in mud and thrown - with great force - into a tree hard enough for all of her limbs to be corkscrewed around the branches "like boneless rubber arms and legs."

This post certainly went places.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Alabama's got a ton of weird names. For instance, there is Slapout/Holtville, and Needmore. And Muck City, and BURNT CORN. XD

There are also the two full name towns - Susan Moore and the infamous Phil Campbell, where apparently some post-2011 tornado responders uncovered a woman - with no eyes or clothes - completely covered in mud and thrown - with great force - into a tree hard enough for all of her limbs to be corkscrewed around the branches "like boneless rubber arms and legs."

This post certainly went places.

Pennsylvania is the champion of funny town names; Intercourse, Virginville, Blue Ball and Climax. I swear at least half of those have to have been intentional.

Also, that description of the woman in Phil Campbell....morbid topic but the movement and condition of bodies from tornadoes deserves a certain amount of attention. I know Niles-Wheatland skinned a woman alive more or less completely and a dude in his car was sliced in half; he was sucked out with such force the seat belt sliced him in half; his lower half was still in the vehicle.

Source on that last bit:

1985 Tornado

 

[Lake Martin EF4]

Pennsylvania is the champion of funny town names; Intercourse, Virginville, Blue Ball and Climax. I swear at least half of those have to have been intentional.

Also, that description of the woman in Phil Campbell....morbid topic but the movement and condition of bodies from tornadoes deserves a certain amount of attention. I know Niles-Wheatland skinned a woman alive more or less completely and a dude in his car was sliced in half; he was sucked out with such force the seat belt sliced him in half; his lower half was still in the vehicle.

Source on that last bit:

1985 Tornado

Reminds me of another 4/27 story - one dude (OG person who commented it to me wanted to say it was James?) was at the Mill's in TCL when it got wiped out. He went missing for a full two weeks.

They did find him.


In Birmingham.


Fourty miles or so away.

He had to be identified by his name tag as his face was unrecognizable. I think this might be the longest confirmed distance a human has been carried by a tornado.

 

[locomusic01]

Why do you think Guin (and so much of the AL section from 4/3/74) is so poorly documented compared to so many other outbreaks from before and after? It's just really odd that such a historical event would be lost to time in the information age....

Kind of a perfect recipe for getting overlooked - rural Deep South, small town, not a huge death toll (relatively speaking), happened on the same day as multiple higher-profile tornadoes, etc. It's taken on kind of legendary status among wx nerds over the years but I'm not sure it was really that way at the time.

As usual, I'm sure there's plenty of stuff floating around out there if someone had the time/resources to dig it up.

Pennsylvania is the champion of funny town names; Intercourse, Virginville, Blue Ball and Climax. I swear at least half of those have to have been intentional.

Also, that description of the woman in Phil Campbell....morbid topic but the movement and condition of bodies from tornadoes deserves a certain amount of attention. I know Niles-Wheatland skinned a woman alive more or less completely and a dude in his car was sliced in half; he was sucked out with such force the seat belt sliced him in half; his lower half was still in the vehicle.

Source on that last bit:

1985 Tornado

FWIW, this seems to have been some kind of urban legend. I've also heard similar stories in connection with other tornadoes. The only man who was killed in Niles was Ernest Miller, the elderly man who was bedridden. He was in his home across US 422 and was thrown clear over the other side of the plaza. A woman was cut in half, but she was sucked entirely out of the car and thrown into the field behind Top O' the Strip.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Kind of a perfect recipe for getting overlooked - rural Deep South, small town, not a huge death toll (relatively speaking), happened on the same day as multiple higher-profile tornadoes, etc. It's taken on kind of legendary status among wx nerds over the years but I'm not sure it was really that way at the time.

As usual, I'm sure there's plenty of stuff floating around out there if someone had the time/resources to dig it up.


FWIW, this seems to have been some kind of urban legend. I've also heard similar stories in connection with other tornadoes. The only man who was killed in Niles was Ernest Miller, the elderly man who was bedridden. He was in his home across US 422 and was thrown clear over the other side of the plaza. A woman was cut in half, but she was sucked entirely out of the car and thrown into the field behind Top O' the Strip.

Come to think a lot of tornadoes from 4/3/74 are rather poorly documented, really is strange given how widespread the event was. Lots of the Indiana and Tennessee tornadoes from that day it's hard to find info on, also rather odd that only one tornado was documented in Mississippi. Perhaps there was a bunch more that went through rural, backwater areas and weren't documented?
The stuff I mentioned about Niles being an urban legend, fair enough. I do know there was a woman whose scalp was torn so deeply she didn't bleed, or something to that effect. What a way to go.
The bit in your article about the vehicle from Niles Park Plaza being lifted into the air and torn apart and its occupants being ejected; was Ronnie really close enough to see that? If so, that really is something.

 

[locomusic01]

The bit in your article about the vehicle from Niles Park Plaza being lifted into the air and torn apart and its occupants being ejected; was Ronnie really close enough to see that? If so, that really is something.

Yeah, even hearing the story and really digging into the details of it, I can't even imagine what that experience must've been like. I saw a few similar accounts in newspapers as well but I wasn't able to make contact with anyone else. I didn't want to get unnecessarily gruesome in the article, especially since I've gotten to know some of the victims' families & knew they'd be reading it, but some of the stories survivors/first responders told me were pretty messed up.

I'm not sure I've ever heard anything quite like New Richmond though tbh. An insanely violent tornado + lots of people caught out in the open is just.. yikes. I could've done without reading some of those descriptions.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Yeah, even hearing the story and really digging into the details of it, I can't even imagine what that experience must've been like. I saw a few similar accounts in newspapers as well but I wasn't able to make contact with anyone else. I didn't want to get unnecessarily gruesome in the article, especially since I've gotten to know some of the victims' families & knew they'd be reading it, but some of the stories survivors/first responders told me were pretty messed up.

I'm not sure I've ever heard anything quite like New Richmond though tbh. An insanely violent tornado + lots of people caught out in the open is just.. yikes. I could've done without reading some of those descriptions.

The most gruesome stuff concerning bodies and tornadoes (for me at least) is accounts of Tupelo 1936, Jarrell and that other tornado from the March 18, 1925 outbreak (it struck areas in KY or TN) where bodies were in such condition they were impossible to identify. Tupelo and the 1925 tornado they more or less had to use mass graves in some cases.
Out of curiosity, the stuff about Ronnie and seeing the car, is that mentioned in a newspaper article or did he tell you personally? Don't wanna bring back any bad memories for someone, but if there's an article about it I'd like to read it.

 

[Lake Martin EF4]

I'm not sure I've ever heard anything quite like New Richmond though tbh. An insanely violent tornado + lots of people caught out in the open is just.. yikes. I could've done without reading some of those descriptions.

Y'know, I haven't seen much descriptions of what happened to the New Richmond victims besides that some of them were "burnt" because of the fires + a few of them got ripped to shreds. I feel like that isn't nearly the worst of it.

 

[locomusic01]

The most gruesome stuff concerning bodies and tornadoes (for me at least) is accounts of Tupelo 1936, Jarrell and that other tornado from the March 18, 1925 outbreak (it struck areas in KY or TN) where bodies were in such condition they were impossible to identify. Tupelo and the 1925 tornado they more or less had to use mass graves in some cases.
Out of curiosity, the stuff about Ronnie and seeing the car, is that mentioned in a newspaper article or did he tell you personally? Don't wanna bring back any bad memories for someone, but if there's an article about it I'd like to read it.

No (or at least not that I'm aware of); his granddaughter reached out to me and put me in contact. Here's a clipping of a very similar story from another man:

I believe he passed away quite a while ago so I couldn't find out precisely where he was, but it sounds like he must have watched from basically the same location. Only major difference is that he says he saw the doors of a car fly open, but I think he must have seen it wrong unless he's talking about people who miraculously survived. The car in which two women were killed was essentially torn in half, and the other vehicle with a fatality is the one in which the wife was sucked out and the husband was trapped by the steering wheel.

I was gonna add a warning about not reading the final paragraph if you're squeamish, but I figure anyone who's stuck around this far into the conversation is probably already past that lol

 

[Lake Martin EF4]

No (or at least not that I'm aware of); his granddaughter reached out to me and put me in contact. Here's a clipping of a very similar story from another man:

I believe he passed away quite a while ago so I couldn't find out precisely where he was, but it sounds like he must have watched from basically the same location. Only major difference is that he says he saw the doors of a car fly open, but I think he must have seen it wrong unless he's talking about people who miraculously survived. The car in which two women were killed was essentially torn in half, and the other vehicle with a fatality is the one in which the wife was sucked out and the husband was trapped by the steering wheel.

I was gonna add a warning about not reading the final paragraph if you're squeamish, but I figure anyone who's stuck around this far into the conversation is probably already past that lol

Sort of related, after thinking of some Niles descriptions - did New Richmond skin anyone?