2020 Political Thread

[Evan]

I'm far more worried about poor policy that will directly affect me and my family/friends than throwing a fit on twitter. With that said, I won't miss Trump's childish actions a bit. I've always maintained here I'm no fan of him.

We won't agree on this, and that's fine. Like I said I hope I'm wrong. My biggest concerns are the left's energy policy and how they'll handle COVID. Seeing how the left vs right has handled COVID was actually one of my main drivers to voting Trump again. I know that won't be the popular opinion on here.

It's not that it's an unpopular opinion as much as it being a claim completely divorced from reality. Trump's behavior was not limited to impulsive tweets of conspiracy theory or crude attacks on people trying to hold him accountable. His behavior included lying to the American people, attempting a quid pro quo with a foreign country so they'd fabricate an investigation of Joe Biden, coddling dictators (he allowed NK to become a nuclear power and cemented their status as such by writing love letters to Kim), using the US military on civilians, corruption, raising taxes on millions of Americans (SALT elimination), degrading the NATO alliance, inhumane treatment of illegal immigrants by separating children from their parents, etc etc.

I could list 70 different things, easily. Trying to whitewash Trump's behavior by condensing it down to just the occasional fit in Twitter is a cute Trumper talking about I've seen floating around for a few days but it's not at all an accurate description.

You do realize that Trump was the one who initially pushed staying at home and locking down, right?



We're a week from hitting 250k deaths from COVID. Do you believe that death toll is inaccurate?

You're obviously entitled to any opinion you want to hold, Jacob. But why don't we discuss facts instead of opinion? You're entitled to the former but the latter is objective truth.

 

[JayF]

I just hate what is going to occur in the next four years. I will respect the Office of the President, I will argue for my God-given rights of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, none of these Biden is for. I will respect the laws of this country, and I will do everything I can to legally protect, the bill of rights (the first 10 amendments to the constitution), and all other amendments ratified by the states.

I hope that what Biden talked about doesn't come to fruition. The second amendment whether you disagree with or not says that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. Don't like it, have the states ratify an amendment repealing the second.

Good Luck and enjoy the 4 to 5 dollar gasoline that will be coming in about two years. And with the tax increases, loss of jobs, military cuts, probably a new recession and housing crash. Better sell your house if you plan to.

I really hope none of this happens. I am praying that it doesn't. Thankfully I know a God who is above all and I know that one day Jesus Christ is coming back to this earth and once and for all he will again say, It is finished.

God Bless and Godspeed.

 

[maroonedinhsv]

I just hate what is going to occur in the next four years. I will respect the Office of the President, I will argue for my God-given rights of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, none of these Biden is for. I will respect the laws of this country, and I will do everything I can to legally protect, the bill of rights (the first 10 amendments to the constitution), and all other amendments ratified by the states.

I hope that what Biden talked about doesn't come to fruition. The second amendment whether you disagree with or not says that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. Don't like it, have the states ratify an amendment repealing the second.

Good Luck and enjoy the 4 to 5 dollar gasoline that will be coming in about two years. And with the tax increases, loss of jobs, military cuts, probably a new recession and housing crash. Better sell your house if you plan to.

I really hope none of this happens. I am praying that it doesn't. Thankfully I know a God who is above all and I know that one day Jesus Christ is coming back to this earth and once and for all he will again say, It is finished.

God Bless and Godspeed.

Don’t blame the people that voted for Biden, blame the people that voted for Trump in the 2016 Republican primary.

 

[JayF]

Don’t blame the people that voted for Biden, blame the people that voted for Trump in the 2016 Republican primary.

What! That doesn't even make sense.

 

[maroonedinhsv]

What! That doesn't even make sense.

It does to all of us that predicted this would happen if Trump won.

 

[Evan]

I honestly don’t know. It would be a guess.
I’d say 20,000. I think Trump initially said 60,000

Zero chance we'd have limited it to 20k irrespective of who was in charge.

That said, I also think comparisons to Western Europe miss the mark. The only European countries with a worse death rate than the USA are Belgium and Spain. Even France has a death rate 16% lower than the United States. Germany's is 81.5% lower. The USA would be sitting on 45k deaths instead of 243k if we were doing as well as Germany.

Canada's death rate is almost 3x lower per capita than ours. Denmark's is also incredible when contrasted with our death rate. While I think 20k was absolutely not a plausible outcome (45k as in Germany probably not possible, either) I will never be convinced that 243k was inevitable. We shouldn't be over 100k right now. That we are not is a failure of the President.

 

[Evan]

I just hate what is going to occur in the next four years. I will respect the Office of the President, I will argue for my God-given rights of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, none of these Biden is for. I will respect the laws of this country, and I will do everything I can to legally protect, the bill of rights (the first 10 amendments to the constitution), and all other amendments ratified by the states.

I hope that what Biden talked about doesn't come to fruition. The second amendment whether you disagree with or not says that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. Don't like it, have the states ratify an amendment repealing the second.

Good Luck and enjoy the 4 to 5 dollar gasoline that will be coming in about two years. And with the tax increases, loss of jobs, military cuts, probably a new recession and housing crash. Better sell your house if you plan to.

I really hope none of this happens. I am praying that it doesn't. Thankfully I know a God who is above all and I know that one day Jesus Christ is coming back to this earth and once and for all he will again say, It is finished.

God Bless and Godspeed.

Couple of questions.

1. You don't think Trump violated the Second Amendment? Are you not aware of what he did to bump stock owners?

2. Why wasn't there a housing crash under Obama or Clinton, then?

3. Why did gas prices go from around a $1.50 to $3.30 during Bush's Presidency? Why did gas prices drop immediately once Obama entered office? Why did they go from a 10 year low in Obama's last year in office to an immediate increase in Trump's first year?

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/gasoline-prices-adjusted-for-inflation/

 

[JayF]

Couple of questions.

1. You don't think Trump violated the Second Amendment? Are you not aware of what he did to bump stock owners?

2. Why wasn't there a housing crash under Obama or Clinton, then?

3. Why did gas prices go from around a $1.50 to $3.30 during Bush's Presidency? Why did gas prices drop immediately once Obama entered office? Why did they go from a 10 year low in Obama's last year in office to an immediate increase in Trump's first year?

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/gasoline-prices-adjusted-for-inflation/

1. Yes we are quite aware of what was done to bump stock owners. Bump Stock versus an entire weapon class because you mislabel them as assault rifles are two totally different things. And yes the Gun owners let Trump know exactly what he did.

2. There was a housing crash under Obama.

The housing crash was an opportunity for America. Obama blew it. | Opinion

After the housing crash, a new book argues , the U.S. government spurned a proven recovery model for a scheme that enriched speculators

www.freep.com

Now, Granted Obama was not the cause of the crash, Bad policy from Bush and banks making stupid loans was the cause. However he exacerbated it.

3. Well Lets look at the average Gas Prices by year.

2007​	2.849​	237.959​	2.536​
2008​	3.317​	277.457​	2.532​
2009​	2.401​	201.555​	2.522​
2010​	2.836​	238.594​	2.517​
2011​	3.577​	301.694​	2.510​
2012​	3.695​	311.470​	2.512​
2013​	3.584​	302.577​	2.508​
2014​	3.425​	290.889​	2.493​
2015​	2.510​	212.007​	2.507​
2016​	2.204​	187.602​	2.487​
2017​	2.469​	211.770​	2.469​

This is from your link. So the highest Gas price average was 3.31 in 2008 in the Bush term. They may have dropped in his first year but he kept them high until it was time for Hillary to start campaigning. In 2017, 2018, and 2019, they stayed below 3 dollars on average, while 2017, and 2019 hovered closer to 2.50 a gallon but a spike in gas prices in 2018 brought the average for a moment close to 3.

So in the first 4 Years of Obama Gas stored at an average of over 3.50 a gallon. Trump isn't even close to that. and where do you see 1.50 gas on this chart? It's the chart you posted a link to.

 

[ghost]

1. Yes we are quite aware of what was done to bump stock owners. Bump Stock versus an entire weapon class because you mislabel them as assault rifles are two totally different things. And yes the Gun owners let Trump know exactly what he did.

2. There was a housing crash under Obama.

The housing crash was an opportunity for America. Obama blew it. | Opinion

After the housing crash, a new book argues , the U.S. government spurned a proven recovery model for a scheme that enriched speculators

www.freep.com

Now, Granted Obama was not the cause of the crash, Bad policy from Bush and banks making stupid loans was the cause. However he exacerbated it.

3. Well Lets look at the average Gas Prices by year.

2007​	2.849​	237.959​	2.536​
2008​	3.317​	277.457​	2.532​
2009​	2.401​	201.555​	2.522​
2010​	2.836​	238.594​	2.517​
2011​	3.577​	301.694​	2.510​
2012​	3.695​	311.470​	2.512​
2013​	3.584​	302.577​	2.508​
2014​	3.425​	290.889​	2.493​
2015​	2.510​	212.007​	2.507​
2016​	2.204​	187.602​	2.487​
2017​	2.469​	211.770​	2.469​

This is from your link. So the highest Gas price average was 3.31 in 2008 in the Bush term. They may have dropped in his first year but he kept them high until it was time for Hillary to start campaigning. In 2017, 2018, and 2019, they stayed below 3 dollars on average, while 2017, and 2019 hovered closer to 2.50 a gallon but a spike in gas prices in 2018 brought the average for a moment close to 3.

So in the first 4 Years of Obama Gas stored at an average of over 3.50 a gallon. Trump isn't even close to that. and where do you see 1.50 gas on this chart? It's the chart you posted a link to.

If you post a chart... could you please include the headers so we know what the 3 columns on the right are referring to?

 

[maroonedinhsv]

What! That doesn't even make sense.

Looks like it made sense to others.

 

[JayF]

If you post a chart... could you please include the headers so we know what the 3 columns on the right are referring to?

Or you could click on the link and go look for yourself.

 

[maroonedinhsv]

Or you could click on the link and go look for yourself.

Salty.

 

[Evan]

1. Yes we are quite aware of what was done to bump stock owners. Bump Stock versus an entire weapon class because you mislabel them as assault rifles are two totally different things. And yes the Gun owners let Trump know exactly what he did.

2. There was a housing crash under Obama.

The housing crash was an opportunity for America. Obama blew it. | Opinion

After the housing crash, a new book argues , the U.S. government spurned a proven recovery model for a scheme that enriched speculators

www.freep.com

Now, Granted Obama was not the cause of the crash, Bad policy from Bush and banks making stupid loans was the cause. However he exacerbated it.

3. Well Lets look at the average Gas Prices by year.

2007​	2.849​	237.959​	2.536​
2008​	3.317​	277.457​	2.532​
2009​	2.401​	201.555​	2.522​
2010​	2.836​	238.594​	2.517​
2011​	3.577​	301.694​	2.510​
2012​	3.695​	311.470​	2.512​
2013​	3.584​	302.577​	2.508​
2014​	3.425​	290.889​	2.493​
2015​	2.510​	212.007​	2.507​
2016​	2.204​	187.602​	2.487​
2017​	2.469​	211.770​	2.469​

This is from your link. So the highest Gas price average was 3.31 in 2008 in the Bush term. They may have dropped in his first year but he kept them high until it was time for Hillary to start campaigning. In 2017, 2018, and 2019, they stayed below 3 dollars on average, while 2017, and 2019 hovered closer to 2.50 a gallon but a spike in gas prices in 2018 brought the average for a moment close to 3.

So in the first 4 Years of Obama Gas stored at an average of over 3.50 a gallon. Trump isn't even close to that. and where do you see 1.50 gas on this chart? It's the chart you posted a link to.

LOL. Are you under the impression I don't own guns. LOL. I have 5 unfinished lowers alone in my gun safe. I'll keep it to that as I don't like to advertise things online (thieves and ATF).


Please explain how I mislabeled anything. Are you confused and meant to refer to how Trump ordered that the definition of a machine gun be changed to include bump stocks?

Your President tried to make me a felon over a piece of plastic. I told him exactly what I thought by voting him out of office.

 

[JayF]

LOL. Are you under the impression I don't own guns. LOL. I have 5 unfinished lowers alone in my gun safe. I'll keep it to that as I don't like to advertise things online (thieves and ATF).


Please explain how I mislabeled anything. Are you confused and meant to refer to how Trump ordered that the definition of a machine gun be changed to include bump stocks?

Your President tried to make me a felon over a piece of plastic. I told him exactly what I thought by voting him out of office.

Sorry, the "you" was meant to be he.

And while I agree with you about the bump stock, Biden is going to be so much worse on guns. in his plan, he wants to mandate a buy back for any weapon that can receive over 10 rounds in a magazine. And everyone that does not opt into the buyback program will have to pay for a tax stamp for each handgun, rifle, and magazine that can accept a magazine over 10 rounds. Effectively that is every Glock that is in the US which is a very popular handgun as I am sure you are aware. Every weapon based on an AR platform, every AK-47, and many many other weapons. To which the only people affected will be the law-abiding citizen. Because the criminal will not care.

 

[KoD]

Remember when a couple of crazies were asking Senator John McCain about Obama in 2008 during a town hall, accusing him of being involved in a cohort of domestic terrorists and extremist etc... And McCain stopped them to reject that notion and stated that his opponent was a decent family man and they just had disagreements? That's the class and character we need in our politics right now. Maybe it's a Trump effect but I couldn't imagine politicians these days just straight up denounce such rhetoric. Both sides need to condemn their respective extremist "teammates" and their outlandish claims (that's very unlikely to happen of course) because it seems to me that those groups are becoming larger and louder. The partisanship is absolutely going to run us into the ground.

On a similar note, I had somebody today (70+ year old lady), unprovoked, tell me that socialism is upon us with Biden now being elected. Uhhh. Sure we can reasonably disagree with the guys policies, but he's very far from a true socialist... Maybe it's just a buzz word??? How are we in a situation where people on the far left think Biden could be better if he was more left and people on the far right/medium right think he's a far left nut job? It seems like the people who see Biden as a generic Democrat politician are in the minority.



I am very appreciative that we can have a civil discussion on this forum with highly intelligent users from both sides of the isle bringing forward their perspectives. It's difficult to find such an educational and respectful political discussion anywhere on the internet or in real life these days. Thank you all for that.

 

[StormStalker]

I heard a blurb on WAFF that Biden may be considering Doug Jones as his Attorney General. Any thoughts on that?

 

[Evan]

Sorry, the "you" was meant to be he.

And while I agree with you about the bump stock, Biden is going to be so much worse on guns. in his plan, he wants to mandate a buy back for any weapon that can receive over 10 rounds in a magazine. And everyone that does not opt into the buyback program will have to pay for a tax stamp for each handgun, rifle, and magazine that can accept a magazine over 10 rounds. Effectively that is every Glock that is in the US which is a very popular handgun as I am sure you are aware. Every weapon based on an AR platform, every AK-47, and many many other weapons. To which the only people affected will be the law-abiding citizen. Because the criminal will not care.

We're in agreement on that, Jay. Biden and Harris have plans to destroy the rights of gun owners. It's unfortunate, but that's why Trump needs to concede and not distract from the Georgia runoffs for Senate.

I was willing to take a risk with Biden and Harris potentially having control of the House/Senate for two years (almost always there's a correction back to the party out of power). Now, if the GOP keeps control of the Senate, it will help to moderate or block things like you mentioned.

Will Trump calm down, concede, and put the country and his party first?

Edit:

BTW, no apology necessary, my friend. I should have just asked you for a clarification. I'm sorry if my post seemed unduly abrasive -- that wasn't my intent!

 

[Evan]

Remember when a couple of crazies were asking Senator John McCain about Obama in 2008 during a town hall, accusing him of being involved in a cohort of domestic terrorists and extremist etc... And McCain stopped them to reject that notion and stated that his opponent was a decent family man and they just had disagreements? That's the class and character we need in our politics right now. Maybe it's a Trump effect but I couldn't imagine politicians these days just straight up denounce such rhetoric. Both sides need to condemn their respective extremist "teammates" and their outlandish claims (that's very unlikely to happen of course) because it seems to me that those groups are becoming larger and louder. The partisanship is absolutely going to run us into the ground.

On a similar note, I had somebody today (70+ year old lady), unprovoked, tell me that socialism is upon us with Biden now being elected. Uhhh. Sure we can reasonably disagree with the guys policies, but he's very far from a true socialist... Maybe it's just a buzz word??? How are we in a situation where people on the far left think Biden could be better if he was more left and people on the far right/medium right think he's a far left nut job? It seems like the people who see Biden as a generic Democrat politician are in the minority.



I am very appreciative that we can have a civil discussion on this forum with highly intelligent users from both sides of the isle bringing forward their perspectives. It's difficult to find such an educational and respectful political discussion anywhere on the internet or in real life these days. Thank you all for that.

While we may disagree on some policy issues and/or the Presidential election, I think everyone here is a fair-minded person who cares about our country. I truly do. Talkweather is made up of really good people and we all have more in common than we have differences.

Besides that, I'm glad Talkweather's thread on politics isn't an echo chamber. It's good-faith discussion by our members, and we all try to discuss the issues and politicians without aiming fire individually at each other. Let's hope our country can start to emulate the environment we have here in the coming months and years.

 

[Evan]

What! That doesn't even make sense.

His point (I think) is that had any other Republican won the primary, as long as they didn't have the behavioral or character flaws of Trump, they'd be getting ready to start their second term.

Trump made minimal policy gains outside of executive orders, and Biden will be able to overturn most of those orders with a stroke of his pen. Trump never had the patience or interest to work on legislation that could've been shepherded through Congress outside of a couple things like the tax bill. His divisiveness led to Democrats winning the House back.

I'm of the belief that Republicans would've has a trifecta of government this entire time if basically any other Republican had won the primary and then defeated Hillary. She was so unpopular. It's also why Trump couldn't defeat Biden even though the economy was strong before COVID (and has recovered fairly well since Q2) -- his favorability ratings were significantly lower than Biden's so his manner of politicking this time simply wouldn't work on someone like Biden.

I think part of the reason the election was even this close is because we're a center-right nation and people were concerned about the crazy people rioting, pushing for socialism, and woke social justice. Had the left toned it down over the past 6-9 months instead of creating unrest in the streets, I think Biden would've won in a landslide *simply* because of Trump's character and behavior. Same reason why a toxic CEO can so easily be pushed out of a company even if it is making record profit for shareholders. Style, attitude, character, and behavior still matter to most people. Trump turned off the suburbs and college-educated whites. He made people become very tired of his type of always-on-the-attack politics. We became a nation fatigued by all the scandals and constant uproar attached to the way Trump governed.

 

[Mike S]

Don’t blame the people that voted for Biden, blame the people that voted for Trump in the 2016 Republican primary.

you took the words right out of my mouth. I've been saying this since 2016. The blame lies squarely on the roughly 1/3 of Republican primary voters that voted for Trump in 2016 and on Ted Cruz, Marcio Rubio and John Kasich for allowing their egos get in the way when it was obvious early on what a threat Trump was and not combining forces to beat him. I wasn't the biggest Cruz fan but he should have led the charge and he would have wiped the floor with Trump with the support of the other two.