2020 Political Thread

[gangstonc]

look at his record and who his associates were. Valerie Jarrett? Nuff said!

Please explain, with sources, how Valerie Jarrett is an American hating Muslim.

 

[Evan]

Sorry, but that’s total B.S. He has achieved more for this country in less than three years that any other president has in eight.

Name three impactful achievements Trump has directly accomplished that a garden variety Republican couldn't have accomplished.

85% of Trump's Presidency is simply Mitch McConnell. Trump is an incredibly impotent leader and wholly ineffectual without McConnell, the RNC, and the GOP Congress doing all his work for him.

 

[Evan]

No surprise you turn to the Islamist America hating president and his wife! Good for you!

Obama accomplished very little in his Presidency, but an Islamist he's not. It's true Obama was a critic of the United States. But he's never even come close to Trump's rhetoric of denigrating America and our people by claiming we're morally identical to Russia, that America is not so innocent, etc. He's made dozens of anti-american statements in the past 4-5 years. Go back to the 80s/90s and watch his CNN appearances, and that's all he did!!!

I'm no Obama fan, but at least he made clear where he thought the moral standing of American policy lies, and he never claimed the actions of North Korea and Russia was justified by previous American policy and virtually indistinguishable from a morality standpoint.

As far as Obama being an Islamist, an atheist, or whatever weird claim currently being pushed. Who has attended a Christian church service more in the past six months? Obama or Trump? Past four years? Obama or Trump? Past decade? Past 25 years?

And I know this...Barack Obama knows it is 2nd Corinthians and not Two Corinthians. I also know that a backslidden Presbyterian who has attended his own church less than two times in the past decade isn't a cultural warrior who represents me. The Presbyterian church Trump claimed to be a member of had no record of him as an active member, and the Presbyterians will claim you if you breathe on the sanctuary once every five years at Christmas.

Barack Obama -- in a monogamous relationship with his first wife. Donald Trump -- multiple divorces, a dozen affairs, mistresses, coverup payoff scandals, secret abortions, etc. It's just flat out embarrassing to compare the two. I don't agree with Obama morally, but he's not a vacuous NYC liberal with the morality of a seedy Times Square porn theater manager.

We're talking about a man who has repeatedly joked on television about having sexual intercourse with his own daughter. INCLUDING WHEN SHE WAS A A MINOR TEEN!

It's literally impossible for Obama to be as morally adrift as Trump is unless he starts commiting a couple of mass shootings a day and drowns kittens in his spare time at night. You're justifying Trump's absolutely repugnant morals...because...why? Because Bill Clinton is also a scumbag? Is it, if you can't beat them then join them? That's a grotesque way of living I'll never embrace, and I'd rather be a corpse full of bullet holes than set such a horrific and hypocritical example for my children.

If that's the moral compromise you believe in making then go right ahead. But don't expect me to try to let you to drag me down to hell with you just because you think "triggering the libs" has superceded the Ten Commandments and that God is OK with that. He's not.

 

[Evan]

The speaker of the house and the committee chairman pushing impeachment are from and support sanctuary cities. The nullification of Federal Law. Talk about hypocrisy!

I'm going to be brutally honest with you. This is D- level material. If you want to be taken seriously here you're going to need to kick it up a couple of notches.

Speaking of hypocrisy, your cultural warrior, one Donald J. Trump, made felons out of hundreds of thousands of law-abiding gun owners with the stroke of his pen, so that Jared and Ivanka could keep getting invitations for the DC cocktail party circuit. So much for Trump's supposed concerns relating to due process or selecting facts over emotion.

 

[Kory]

Obama was a terrible president. Trump is a terrible president. There we go.

 

[KoD]

Unpopular opinion around here but Obama was a pretty good president.
Well spoken, respectful, polite, thorough. He knew he didn't have the best answers to every question and relied on others he thought he could trust to guide his decision making in the right direction. Compared to the fool we have now who thinks he has every best decision to every question, Obama looks like a great president.
He didn't do things that made everyone happy, but he was professional in doing what he did. The political polarization today pretty much guarantees the other side will disagree and smear. At least Obama had a sense of shame and could admit mistakes. At least he realized he wasn't perfect and needed well minded people to help him.

 

[gangstonc]

Unpopular opinion around here but Obama was a pretty good president.
Well spoken, respectful, polite, thorough. He knew he didn't have the best answers to every question and relied on others he thought he could trust to guide his decision making in the right direction. Compared to the fool we have now who thinks he has every best decision to every question, Obama looks like a great president.
He didn't do things that made everyone happy, but he was professional in doing what he did. The political polarization today pretty much guarantees the other side will disagree and smear. At least Obama had a sense of shame and could admit mistakes. At least he realized he wasn't perfect and needed well minded people to help him.

He was professional and a great orator, but I don’t feel like he did with healthcare what he needed to do. I also don’t think he did a great job in the war in Afghanistan.
There is no doubt he is a much better human than trump.

 

[Kory]

I don’t believe Obama did what he did with the best intentions for the country all the time.

Being a great orator and professional doesn’t mean he’s a great person. I can think of some quite infamous leaders who checked those qualities. No need to name them.

 

[gangstonc]

I don’t believe Obama did what he did with the best intentions for the country all the time.

Being a great orator and professional doesn’t mean he’s a great person. I can think of some quite infamous leaders who checked those qualities. No need to name them.

I disagree with your first statement, I think. Can you elaborate?

 

[Kory]

I disagree with your first statement, I think. Can you elaborate?

His administration directing gun sellers to sell to felons and criminals and then letting them walk. Those guns then being used in murders of border patrol and others. Then, Obama going to Mexico and saying “This war is being waged with guns purchased not here but in the United States … more than 90% of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States, many from gun shops that lay in our shared border.”



Its clear as day he was doing this for purely political purposes...to push a narrative. And people died because of his administration’s incompetence and even nefarious motives.

“Later in 2009 the ATF started the Fast and Furious program by allowing firearms to be smuggled from U.S. gun stores into the arsenals of Mexican criminal gangs. As these guns wouldn’t be seen again until they resurfaced in crimes (there were no tracking devices installed or other means to trace these guns), the only purpose for letting these guns “walk” seems to be to back up the president’s position that guns used in Mexican crimes mostly come from the U.S. (Though the Obama administration insists the gun sales were a part of a new crime-fighting technique.) Also, given the cover up that has ensued since Fast and Furious broke, it doesn’t seem like a conspiratorial leap to conclude that politics mixed with policy to create this crazy program.”

'Fast And Furious' Just Might Be President Obama's Watergate

A cover-up of a bloody Obama administration error.

www.forbes.com

 

[gangstonc]

His administration directing gun sellers to sell to felons and criminals and then letting them walk. Those guns then being used in murders of border patrol and others. Then, Obama going to Mexico and saying “This war is being waged with guns purchased not here but in the United States … more than 90% of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States, many from gun shops that lay in our shared border.”



Its clear as day he was doing this for purely political purposes...to push a narrative. And people died because of his administration’s incompetence and even nefarious motives.

“Later in 2009 the ATF started the Fast and Furious program by allowing firearms to be smuggled from U.S. gun stores into the arsenals of Mexican criminal gangs. As these guns wouldn’t be seen again until they resurfaced in crimes (there were no tracking devices installed or other means to trace these guns), the only purpose for letting these guns “walk” seems to be to back up the president’s position that guns used in Mexican crimes mostly come from the U.S. (Though the Obama administration insists the gun sales were a part of a new crime-fighting technique.) Also, given the cover up that has ensued since Fast and Furious broke, it doesn’t seem like a conspiratorial leap to conclude that politics mixed with policy to create this crazy program.”

'Fast And Furious' Just Might Be President Obama's Watergate

A cover-up of a bloody Obama administration error.

www.forbes.com

You don’t think they were just trying to track the guns to mexican criminals?

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Kory]

You don’t think they were just trying to track the guns to mexican criminals?

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Why would you not put trackers on the guns? And then obstruct investigations and cover up “mistakes”?

 

[gangstonc]

Why would you not put trackers on the guns? And then obstruct investigations and cover up “mistakes”?

I think they didn’t want to look bad politically.
I really don’t think the payoff for being right would have been enough for the govt to run this as a scandal. I really think it was just stupid. There just wasn’t enough to be gained politically.

 

[Kory]

I think they didn’t want to look bad politically.
I really don’t think the payoff for being right would have been enough for the govt to run this as a scandal. I really think it was just stupid. There just wasn’t enough to be gained politically.

The Obama comments while in Mexico are key for me. That’s why I think it was more than a series of errors. It seems like there was a motive BEYOND tracking criminals since they didn’t actually have a way to track the firearms.

 

[gangstonc]

The Obama comments while in Mexico are key for me. That’s why I think it was more than a series of errors. It seems like there was a motive BEYOND tracking criminals since they didn’t actually have a way to track the firearms.

I don’t understand why those comments are key to you. Again, why is being right about something relatively minor wort a huge scandal?

 

[Kory]

I don’t understand why those comments are key to you. Again, why is being right about something relatively minor wort a huge scandal?

Because the government provided those weapons to people who shouldn’t have had it. And then used incidents, such as people getting murdered through use of those weapons criminals wouldn’t have had otherwise, as a talking point for an agenda. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

 

[gangstonc]

Because the government provided those weapons to people who shouldn’t have had it. And then used incidents, such as people getting murdered through use of those weapons criminals wouldn’t have had otherwise, as a talking point for an agenda. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

I just don’t think the talking point was important enough for the risk.

And i thought guns were easy for criminals to get, that’s why we need easy availability for good guys. It doesn’t get to go both ways.

 

[Mike S]

Obama was not a great communicator nor was he "well spoken". He just looks that way because he is bookended by aw shucks Dubya and Trump.

Reagan and Clinton were by far the two best speakers as POTUS in my lifetime.

 

[Evan]

Obama was not a great communicator nor was he "well spoken". He just looks that way because he is bookended by aw shucks Dubya and Trump.

Reagan and Clinton were by far the two best speakers as POTUS in my lifetime.

Tend to agree. Obama is more middle-of-the-pack type of communicator and orator. I do think he was well-spoken, but that actually had several downsides as you need to be able to communicate to the nation on their level and not as a law professor or someone with a lot of time in high-education and around academia.

That said, as boring as Obama was to me, and the many flaws he did have as a speaker, I'll take that part of his abilities over Trump's 10-12 year old braggadocious middle-schooler way of speaking.

 

[Patrick O'Connor]

You need to back that statement up.

The Iran nuclear deal was horrible.

Giving pallets of cash($150 billion) to one of the leading state sponsors of terrorism was doubly insane. Why would an American president do that. I can only think of one reason.