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Significant Tornado Events

pohnpei said:

Overview of the Tuscaloosa-Birmingham EF4 Tornado – April 27, 2011 – Tornado Talk

www.tornadotalk.com www.tornadotalk.com
It's noteworthy that tornadotalk's detailed article about Tuscaloosa had a path of 96.33miles rather than 80miles according to NWS, which made It only slightly shorter than Hackleburg's actual path of 103miles.
Tornadotalk listed two to three dozens of EF5 points scattered along tornado's path, but not included the often argued Chastain Manor apartment area.
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I wonder what they found in those areas as I haven’t seen any definitive EF5 damage from the Tuscaloosa tornado before.
 
buckeye05 said:
Wondering the same. I don’t know of any structures or incidents of damage along it’s path that is clear cut EF5.
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They labeled that steel bridge as one of the EF5 point.
the Science and Operations Officer at the NWS in Birmingham, stated in episode 797 of the Weather Brains podcast that “I’ve never seen railroad tracks that were bent into big U-shapes. They were actually touching end to end… the train ties, the wood pieces that go under the track… they were being dug up out of the ground and slung fifteen miles away, that’s just incredible.”
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I tend to think they have their own definition of EF5 intensity, sometimes not just from damage but also speculation of the true intensity of tornado at this time. Otherwise, they wouldn't labeled the entire path between Hackleburg and Mount Hope as EF5 area when tornado went through many forest areas without any DIs.
Other times they lableled EF5 damage when slabbed houses matched up with extensive debarking like Ringgold and Barnesville but not this time on Tuscaloosa which had tons of tree/house damage like this all lableled as EF4 intensity.
So I do wandered the criteria of them as well.
 
pohnpei said:
They labeled that steel bridge as one of the EF5 point.

I tend to think they have their own definition of EF5 intensity, sometimes not just from damage but also speculation of the true intensity of tornado at this time. Otherwise, they wouldn't labeled the entire path between Hackleburg and Mount Hope as EF5 area when tornado went through many forest areas without any DIs.
Other times they lableled EF5 damage when slabbed houses matched up with extensive debarking like Ringgold and Barnesville but not this time on Tuscaloosa which had tons of tree/house damage like this all lableled as EF4 intensity.
So I do wandered the criteria of them as well.
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Oh so it might not be actual structural EF5 damage.
 
MNTornadoGuy said:
Oh so it might not be actual structural EF5 damage.
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They may find quite a few slabbed houses like the one near end of the Holt's article or the one in Barnesville's article. But without deep inspection of the quality under EF scale context with a wind engineer's eyes, it's hard to ascertain E5 structural damage just using remote pics or dictate of house owners. So maybe speculation based on reasonable reasons was not the best way but the only way sometimes.
 
Juliett Bravo Kilo said:
An even worse scenario would be if Smithville or Hackleburg went through downtown Tuscaloosa or Birmingham during rush hour or peak work hours, the death tolls in those scenarios would likely number in the thousands.
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Absolutely! We are so lucky this was not a night time event like so many are in the south. I was young in 1974 but I remember that some of the worst tornadoes were late and after dark. I can't even imagine Tuscaloosa or Birmingham after dark.

I know we get wrapped up in which tornado was the strongest at times but when I see this video of the Hackelburg tornado I really believe I get a glimpse of what the Tri State Tornado looked like. In a time with almost no pictures of tornadoes I really think that is why people saw that and did to realize what they were looking at.

 
The newly released tornadotalk's Tuscaloosa articles make me wonder maybe the actual intensity of this tornado was quite good matched up with its insane radar couplet. It may, in fact, be stronger than Rainsville with such strong grass-scouring and debarking and large distance-tossed cars( up to 3/4 mile) and displaced concrete porch pad. Some before-after view was insane.
Besides, there was very large multi-layer house slabbed clean in rural area not surveyed by NWS.
 
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pohnpei said:
The newly released tornadotalk's Tuscaloosa articles make me wonder maybe the actual intensity of this tornado was quite good matched up with its insane radar couplet. It may, in fact, be stronger than Rainsville with such strong grass-scouring and debarking and large distance-tossed cars( up to 3/4 mile) and displaced concrete porch pad. Some before-after view was insane.
Besides, there was very large multi-layer house slabbed clean in rural area not surveyed by NWS.
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So there might be actually EF5 damage from Tuscaloosa?
 
MNTornadoGuy said:
So there might be actually EF5 damage from Tuscaloosa?
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I think people may too focus on the damage inside Tuscaloosa city with tornado actually further strengthened thereafter. The EF4 rating inside Tuscaloosa was appropriate but It was not the peak intensity of the tornado. Even Pleasant Glove's damage was stronger than Tuscaloosa. Besides, impressive tree damage alongside the tornado's entire path with strong debarking even in rural area can not be ignored. Given enough debris loading and similar tree species, tornado like Rainsville made far less impressive debarking in several community compared to Tuscaloosa.
 
pohnpei said:
I think people may too focus on the damage inside Tuscaloosa city with tornado actually further strengthened thereafter. The EF4 rating inside Tuscaloosa was appropriate but It was not the peak intensity of the tornado. Even Pleasant Glove's damage was stronger than Tuscaloosa. Besides, impressive tree damage alongside the tornado's entire path with strong debarking even in rural area can not be ignored. Given enough debris loading and similar tree species, tornado like Rainsville made far less impressive debarking in several community compared to Tuscaloosa.
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The fact that there might have been 6+ EF5s during the 4/27/11 outbreak is just insane.
 
So Tuscaloosa moved a porch slab, scoured grass, and there’s at least one large and likely well-built slabbed house that wasn’t surveyed?

I’ve always agreed with the EF4 rating, but if all this is true, I have to reconsider my stance.
 
buckeye05 said:
So Tuscaloosa moved a porch slab, scoured grass, and there’s at least one large and likely well-built slabbed house that wasn’t surveyed?

I’ve always agreed with the EF4 rating, but if all this is true, I have to reconsider my stance.
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Wondering if this may be another instance where an EF5-level DI was deliberately ignored, like with Vilonia?
 
MNTornadoGuy said:
The fact that there might have been 6+ EF5s during the 4/27/11 outbreak is just insane.
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Yeah, I think it may actually be on par with 4/3/73 in those regards, yes I know some F5s from the 1974 Super Outbreak may not have been rated as highly today but you get the idea. I wonder if there's ever been any outbreaks that may have had 10-15+ F5 or EF5 tornadoes in a single day and either no one was around to document them thoroughly or they didn't encounter any DIs to register a rating that high?
 
Juliett Bravo Kilo said:
Wondering if this may be another instance where an EF5-level DI was deliberately ignored, like with Vilonia?
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Vilonia, in my understanding, was more obvious case which made stunning high end damage and was well into EF5 level. It was the case that EF4 rating was unacceptable to any extent. Tuscaloosa was more marginal case that the rating was largely understandble but EF5 level winds probably exist and an rating of this can be called based on the damage and radar intensity.
 
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pohnpei said:
large distance-tossed cars( up to 3/4 mile)
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Speaking of which, I'm really hoping we get some more comprehensive studies on this eventually. There have been a few that have looked at tornado-vehicle interactions in general, and it's obviously a very complex issue w/a huge number of variables, but it would be nice to have some rough guidelines to work with in regard to vehicle damage/transport. I know that was mentioned as something the revised EF-scale committee was looking at but I haven't heard much more about it.

It's especially of interest to me right now because there are several cases where the only things some of the 5/31/85 tornadoes seem to have struck at peak intensity were vehicles. Some of them were tossed pretty incredible distances - up to/just over a mile in a few instances - but it's tough to draw meaningful inferences from that as far as intensity (Valley Mills '73 notwithstanding lol).
 
This is interesting, the full video of Ron Alfredo's when the tornado went through his neighborhood near Hermitage, PA, this video contains an additional 6+ minutes of the immediate aftermath, of note around 6:00 is what looks like a pole of some sorts speared through the roof of someone's house.

 
Juliett Bravo Kilo said:
This is interesting, the full video of Ron Alfredo's when the tornado went through his neighborhood near Hermitage, PA, this video contains an additional 6+ minutes of the immediate aftermath, of note around 6:00 is what looks like a pole of some sorts speared through the roof of someone's house.

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For a bit of context, the video was taken here (where the little webcam icon is):

alfredo1.jpg


They lived in Texas but they'd brought their son Ryan (the one who posted the videos) up to meet family near the intersection of PA 518 & Brian Lane because he'd just been born 3 months earlier. Ron was just shooting some video of the area because the family used to live there and then it started hailing. And then it started, well.. tornadoing. Pretty incredible luck to get one of the most unusual F5s on record on video entirely by accident lol
 
locomusic01 said:
For a bit of context, the video was taken here (where the little webcam icon is):

alfredo1.jpg


They lived in Texas but they'd brought their son Ryan (the one who posted the videos) up to meet family near the intersection of PA 518 & Brian Lane because he'd just been born 3 months earlier. Ron was just shooting some video of the area because the family used to live there and then it started hailing. And then it started, well.. tornadoing. Pretty incredible luck to get one of the most unusual F5s on record on video entirely by accident lol
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According to Grazulis it was the first F5 recorded on video (as opposed to film). Also, I'm pretty sure it's the first audio of an F5 recorded, pretty incredible as opposed to audio of an F5 where you'd expect (Great Plains or Deep South).
 
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