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The Beaver Falls F3(+) reportedly produced some spotty ground scouring in a few different areas along its path. One of those areas was at a farm very near where the conversion van was thrown from I-79 south of Zelienople. The farm itself was only sort of sideswiped, but this is the back side heading toward the interstate. It's a little ambiguous, but looks like possibly some scoured soil on the right side.

192250258-3819163011546508-2185533917592869493-n2.jpg
The area that might be scoured soil also looks like there may have been some sort of Philadelphia-esque trenches dug, or it could just be remains of trees, not sure. Probably just my imagination getting ahead of me yet again.
 

buckeye05

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Anyone remember the Cool, TX EF1 of March 7, 2016? Probably not, but it was a QLCS tornado that never had a tornado warning issued.

What was truly bizarre was the way the local NWS office handled it. There was a clear tornadic circulation on radar, but the WFO refused to acknowledge a tornado threat. Instead, they issued a Severe Thunderstorm Warning noting that it was capable of producing “rotating tornado like winds”.

After digging around trying to find out what this was about, I heard from a met on another forum that had an idea of what was going on. Apparently there is a small group of people within the professional meteorology field that believe that QLCS tornadoes are not “true tornadoes”, but a separate phenomenon. So it became apparent that there was at least one employee at the WFO responsible for that warning that was imposing this viewpoint into the warning text, and refused to acknowledge this event as a true tornado as it was occurring. One of the most insane things I’ve ever heard of.

Anyone else ever heard of this? It’s mind boggling to me.

Edit: After viewing a radar loop of the event, it appears that a tornado warning was actually issued, but not until the tornado was exiting town.
 
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locomusic01

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The area that might be scoured soil also looks like there may have been some sort of Philadelphia-esque trenches dug, or it could just be remains of trees, not sure. Probably just my imagination getting ahead of me yet again.
Yeah, it's just bits of trees. The man who lived on the farm just west of this one said clumps of trees near the center of the path were "shredded like a paper shredder." I did find a few independent accounts from the Niles-Wheatland tornado that sound suspiciously like Philadelphia-type trenches (probably not as extensive based on descriptions), but no photos of them yet.

I think I also might've found a tornado southeast of Alliance, OH that wasn't documented. One person who lived north of Homeworth said they saw a pretty large cone; they couldn't see the lowest portion of it but they thought it was on the ground for at least a few minutes. Another woman said she remembered a swath of trees being snapped and twisted pretty badly along the Mahoning River in the same general area. Probably impossible to 100% verify at this point, but pretty interesting.
 

locomusic01

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Anyone remember the Cool, TX EF1 of March 7, 2016? Probably not, but it was a QLCS tornado that never had a tornado warning issued.

What was truly bizarre was the way the local NWS office handled it. There was a clear tornadic circulation on radar, but the WFO refused to acknowledge a tornado threat. Instead, they issued a Severe Thunderstorm Warning noting that it was capable of producing “rotating tornado like winds”.

After digging around trying to find out what this was about, I heard from a met on another forum that had an idea of what was going on. Apparently there is a small group of people within the professional meteorology field that believe that QLCS tornadoes are not “true tornadoes”, but a separate phenomenon. So it became apparent that there was at least one employee at the WFO responsible for that warning that was imposing this viewpoint into the warning text, and refused to acknowledge this event as a true tornado as it was occurring. One of the most insane things I’ve ever heard of.

Anyone else ever heard of this? It’s mind boggling to me.
That's absurd and should've led to some sort of discipline if that's what happened. There are definitely people who subscribe to that school of thought (one of the former mets at BGM once told me the same thing), but I've never heard of refusing to issue a tornado warning on those grounds.
 

buckeye05

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That's absurd and should've led to some sort of discipline if that's what happened. There are definitely people who subscribe to that school of thought (one of the former mets at BGM once told me the same thing), but I've never heard of refusing to issue a tornado warning on those grounds.
I can’t understand how any professional meteorologist would even subscribe to that school of thought. There have been countless examples of QLCS tornadoes caught on video which show a clear condensation funnel from the cloud to the ground (Beavercreek 2015, El Reno 2019, Kokomo 2013, and Naperville 2021 just to name a few off the top of my head). Videos of these events show a violently rotating column of air extending from the cloud base to the ground.

That is by definition, a tornado. I don’t see how it’s even debatable. Where is this insane theory even coming from? At best, it seems like semantics, and at worst, totally detached from reality.

Do you know if this viewpoint is gaining any traction recently, or is more or less outdated/not well received and losing traction?
 
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locomusic01

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I can’t understand how any professional meteorologist would even subscribe to that school of thought. There have been countless examples of QLCS tornadoes caught on video which show a clear condensation funnel from the cloud to the ground (Beavercreek 2015, El Reno 2019, Kokomo 2013, and Naperville 2021 just to name a few off the top of my head). Videos of these events show a violently rotating column of air extending from the cloud base to the ground.

That is by definition, a tornado. I don’t see how it’s even debatable. Where is this insane theory even coming from? At best, it seems like semantics, and at worst, totally detached from reality.

Do you know if this viewpoint is gaining any traction recently, or is more or less outdated/not well received and losing traction?
The only coherent argument I've ever heard is that QLCS tornadoes are generally weak and/or transitory and hard to warn effectively (either you miss too many real tornadoes or you fire off too many false alarms), so it's better from a public messaging standpoint to fold them into severe warnings. The idea being that a severe warning implies the potential for destructive winds anyway, so the difference is moot.

There are some obvious issues with that line of thinking (not the least of which being that some QLCS tornadoes are very much not weak or transitory), although I get the logic of it. But even if you subscribe to that philosophy, it doesn't mean that they're actually distinct phenomena or that you shouldn't issue a tornado warning when warranted. It just means you don't aggressively try to warn every little thing that could possibly be a brief spin-up.

Anyway, there's some merit to the basic idea but some people seem to take it to an illogical extreme. I don't think it's all that prevalent though, and the guy I mentioned is the only one I can recall who actually viewed them as two distinct things.
 
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Yeah, it's just bits of trees. The man who lived on the farm just west of this one said clumps of trees near the center of the path were "shredded like a paper shredder." I did find a few independent accounts from the Niles-Wheatland tornado that sound suspiciously like Philadelphia-type trenches (probably not as extensive based on descriptions), but no photos of them yet.

I think I also might've found a tornado southeast of Alliance, OH that wasn't documented. One person who lived north of Homeworth said they saw a pretty large cone; they couldn't see the lowest portion of it but they thought it was on the ground for at least a few minutes. Another woman said she remembered a swath of trees being snapped and twisted pretty badly along the Mahoning River in the same general area. Probably impossible to 100% verify at this point, but pretty interesting.
I don't doubt that there were many weaker (F0-F1) tornadoes that occurred that day that weren't documented, as that was pretty typical for most tornado outbreaks until the 1990s or so. It also wouldn't surprise me if there were a bunch of satellite tornadoes that occurred with many of the major tornadoes that day that weren't documented
 

MNTornadoGuy

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Anyone remember the Cool, TX EF1 of March 7, 2016? Probably not, but it was a QLCS tornado that never had a tornado warning issued.

What was truly bizarre was the way the local NWS office handled it. There was a clear tornadic circulation on radar, but the WFO refused to acknowledge a tornado threat. Instead, they issued a Severe Thunderstorm Warning noting that it was capable of producing “rotating tornado like winds”.

After digging around trying to find out what this was about, I heard from a met on another forum that had an idea of what was going on. Apparently there is a small group of people within the professional meteorology field that believe that QLCS tornadoes are not “true tornadoes”, but a separate phenomenon. So it became apparent that there was at least one employee at the WFO responsible for that warning that was imposing this viewpoint into the warning text, and refused to acknowledge this event as a true tornado as it was occurring. One of the most insane things I’ve ever heard of.

Anyone else ever heard of this? It’s mind boggling to me.

Edit: After viewing a radar loop of the event, it appears that a tornado warning was actually issued, but not until the tornado was exiting town.
I can't find any mentions of the "rotating tornado-like winds" wording on the severe tstm warnings in my archives of the Cool TX tornado. I did hear from an SPC forecaster on Twitter once that he believes there is an "overuse and focus on QCLS tornadoes." cool tx.png
 

buckeye05

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I can't find any mentions of the "rotating tornado-like winds" wording on the severe tstm warnings in my archives of the Cool TX tornado. I did hear from an SPC forecaster on Twitter once that he believes there is an "overuse and focus on QCLS tornadoes." View attachment 10022
Weird. I hope it’s not a false memory or that I’m confusing two unrelated events. But I distinctly remember there being the words “tornado-like” in the warning text associated with what was clearly a QLCS spinup, and I remember other weather enthusiasts on a separate forum being totally dumbfounded by the wording.


Edit: I found the forum thread I was remembering but it WAS NOT the Cool, TX tornado that received this strange warning. I mixed up two events, and I’m not sure which one I’m thinking of. All I know is that it was a QLCS tornado that was very similar to the Cool, TX event. Sorry about the confusion. It’s gonna drive me crazy trying to narrow down the event I’m thinking of.
 
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