Significant Tornado Events

[pohnpei]

not sure why i suddenly have this in my head but...

has there ever been any evidence of a tornado got a di rated (number) mph but had a wind measurement that showed it was infact weaker?

cause there's so much case of they measured winds being much stronger then what the damage was ...

the el reno 2011 mesonet wind of 150 mph ... was only in a EF0 damage area....

the dominator that was hit by that one EF1 rated wedge (there was a di beside the dominator a high end ef1 rating of a pole leading to the side) however the wind speeds were in the EF3 range in that spot 140-160 mph

No as far as I know, but direct wind measurement with damage nearby for reference was extremely rare. There was no infrastructure structure near El Reno and Spalding's case but I can think of two better case with houses near wind measurement.
One was the first Manitou Beach F4 tornado. There's claim that F2 damage was nearby the 151mph wind measurement place but I've never seen the damage picture.

Another interesting case was Geary OK tornado on May 30 2004. DOW team wasn't directly into the tornado but they were into the outer circulation which had even stronger winds than the tornado itself. Peak winds of 93m/s was recorded at higher altitude and roughly 80-90m/s closer to the ground level. The height of those winds was around 10m which accord with the definition of EF scale wind altitude. The 3s wind calculated to be 70-75m/s near this height and with F2 house damage nearby. Note that these's were raw velocity of radar which still could be lower than the actual winds.





Speaking DOW, there was one particular tornado that had relative unimpressive winds compared to the damage it did which was Harper tornado 2004. The peak ground relative winds from radar was "only" 210mph at around 25-30AGL. Considering the 25m gate spacing, three seconds wind here would be lower than 200mph though we have literary no idea of winds below radar lowest scan level.

 

[joshoctober16]

No as far as I know, but direct wind measurement with damage nearby for reference was extremely rare. There was no infrastructure structure near El Reno and Spalding's case but I can think of two better case with houses near wind measurement.
One was the first Manitou Beach F4 tornado. There's claim that F2 damage was nearby the 151mph wind measurement place but I've never seen the damage picture.
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Another interesting case was Geary OK tornado on May 30 2004. DOW team wasn't directly into the tornado but they were into the outer circulation which had even stronger winds than the tornado itself. Peak winds of 93m/s was recorded at higher altitude and roughly 80-90m/s closer to the ground level. The height of those winds was around 10m which accord with the definition of EF scale wind altitude. The 3s wind calculated to be 70-75m/s near this height and with F2 house damage nearby. Note that these's were raw velocity of radar which still could be lower than the actual winds.
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Speaking DOW, there was one particular tornado that had relative unimpressive winds compared to the damage it did which was Harper tornado 2004. The peak ground relative winds from radar was "only" 210mph at around 25-30AGL. Considering the 25m gate spacing, three seconds wind here would be lower than 200mph though we have literary no idea of winds below radar lowest scan level.
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really sounds like this is the closest... but it was rated F4 ... meaning at least on the EF scale 166-200 mph... while not as extreme difference as the rest still higher winds then damage....

but what height was harpers wind measured at exactly? was it at least under 60 meters?

edit (blind moment its 40 meters from the ground for one and 400 from the other , if scale states if its 60+ meters above ground it should not be used as a rating.)

 

[pohnpei]

really sounds like this is the closest... but it was rated F4 ... meaning at least on the EF scale 166-200 mph... while not as extreme difference as the rest still higher winds then damage....

but what height was harpers wind measured at exactly? was it at least under 60 meters?

edit (blind moment its 40 meters from the ground for one and 400 from the other , if scale states if its 60+ meters above ground it should not be used as a rating.)

around 25m AGL. But remember that DOW measured wind was subsecond winds when gate spacing was enough small which shouldn't be directly compared with EF scale 3 second winds.

 

[joshoctober16]

The rebar was not bent by the concrete parking stops, rather the concrete was broken through by the rebar when force was applied possibly showing a weakness in the concrete. Possibly quickrete. Which given their age seems possible. But most of these parking stops weren’t necessarily moved in a traditional way but rotated about one of their anchoring points. Not the same case as Joplin. EF ratings have only really been flawed for about 3 tornadoes: Vilonia Chickasha and Goldsby (by the criteria of the EF scale), not saying that other tornadoes were not of Ef5 intensity, but strictly applying the EF scale, that is the reality. Now in practise the EF scale itself is flawed, hence it is getting a revision (the revised version was actually used in the Greenfield survey by the way).

there is a other one you forgot that should be with vilonia , chickasha and goldsby .... that would be rochelle... having multiple 200 mph damage points and from what im hearing 3 homes seem to be very good EF5 candidate....

the only other 200 mph damage point that isn't from them 4 tornadoes is from the Coleridge 2014 tornado ... that for some reason had the weirdest di ever of a tree di that was debarked rated as a 200 mph EF3 damage point....

 

[joshoctober16]

around 25m AGL. But remember that DOW measured wind was subsecond winds when gate spacing was enough small which shouldn't be directly compared with EF scale 3 second winds.

OH... that changes everything

would make it a strong IF3 on the IF scale...

 

[crosby]

interesting to hear what exact homes are you talking about?

the quote about undeniable EF5 intensity is from the trenched home north of El Reno, which is the most impressive tornadic damage to a home ever in my opinion. the field before the house had deep scouring. the house was completely destroyed, with its debris granulated to the point of near non existence. the homes concrete stairs were ripped out of the earth and turned to powder, the home basement walls were eroded, extremely intense scouring occurred, and trees were completely debarked, snapped, denuded, and in some cases lofted. a car parked next to the home was picked up and smashed into a nearby tree, yet had accelerated enough in that short distance to get wrapped around the tree, before a snapped piece of wood pierced the car, pinning it against the tree. in the field directly following the home, deep trenches were dug into the ground of an unknown depth. this is, to my knowledge, 1 of only 3 (potentially 4) examples of trenching ever occurring in oklahoma). the most insane part about this damage is that it occured as the tornado was moving ~60mph if i recall correctly. its like the farmstead from harper, but more violently damaged, and the tornado was over it for seconds, not 8 minutes.

 

[crosby]

there is a other one you forgot that should be with vilonia , chickasha and goldsby .... that would be rochelle... having multiple 200 mph damage points and from what im hearing 3 homes seem to be very good EF5 candidate....

the only other 200 mph damage point that isn't from them 4 tornadoes is from the Coleridge 2014 tornado ... that for some reason had the weirdest di ever of a tree di that was debarked rated as a 200 mph EF3 damage point....

rochelle was a pretty questionable survey, but not for the reasons you list. there is a common misconception that there was 20 200mph DIs, when in reality there was only 6. of those 6, none of them remotely deserved 200mph, some would be lucky to get above 170 today. the highest DI structurally is 185 - 190, there isnt any EF5 candidates. that being said, the tornado has been mathematically confirmed to be EF5 intensity, both through calculations around the lifted sidewalk, as well as analysis of cycloidal markings

 

[joshoctober16]

the quote about undeniable EF5 intensity is from the trenched home north of El Reno, which is the most impressive tornadic damage to a home ever in my opinion. the field before the house had deep scouring. the house was completely destroyed, with its debris granulated to the point of near non existence. the homes concrete stairs were ripped out of the earth and turned to powder, the home basement walls were eroded, extremely intense scouring occurred, and trees were completely debarked, snapped, denuded, and in some cases lofted. a car parked next to the home was picked up and smashed into a nearby tree, yet had accelerated enough in that short distance to get wrapped around the tree, before a snapped piece of wood pierced the car, pinning it against the tree. in the field directly following the home, deep trenches were dug into the ground of an unknown depth. this is, to my knowledge, 1 of only 3 (potentially 4) examples of trenching ever occurring in oklahoma). the most insane part about this damage is that it occured as the tornado was moving ~60mph if i recall correctly. its like the farmstead from harper, but more violently damaged, and the tornado was over it for seconds, not 8 minutes.

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sat image of august 2012 .... the trench digging is very visible....

 

[joshoctober16]

just want to show you this... super questionable bowling green damage ...

 

[slenker]

just want to show you this... super questionable bowling green damage ...
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I don’t care what debris managed to hit that building. It was most certainly was not 120 mph winds that did that damage and neither was it 120 mph winds that managed to pick up debris that did that. That’s a category 3 hurricane.

I don’t even think Patricia at maximum intensity could accomplish something like this.

 

[SpotlightForRareTornadoes]

The tiniest Finger of God in History. The 10-yard-wide Martinsburg, IN F5 of 1974

 

[joshoctober16]

wow guys... i just decided to check out one a super long track undocumented tornado i map out.... but i had the time on google sat at the wrong time and by accident... found a new long track tornado....

the one i was trying to look at is the blue outline that goes off screen on the left

 

[joshoctober16]

wow guys... i just decided to check out one a super long track undocumented tornado i map out.... but i had the time on google sat at the wrong time and by accident... found a new long track tornado....
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the one i was trying to look at is the blue outline that goes off screen on the left

1992-2006 visible tornado tracks from sat - Google My Maps

some are undocumented

www.google.com

outline map of this tornado along with other satellite visible tornadoes from 1992-2006

 

[Ivanthetornadoenthusiast]

Clyde, Texas June 10th, 1938

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Vehicle damage from Smithville. This thing is on par with Andover, Bridge-Creek Moore and Jarrell in terms of vehicles being mangled, compacted down to size and chewed up.

First off, these 2 pics, I think of the same vehicle from different angles:





Not sure what kind of car this was but it's mangled beyond recognition:l



These 3 vehicles, one has it's engine & possibly rear end torn off, the other are smashed & partially granulated:



A chewed up tractor intertwined with trees, house and other debris:



Whatever this is, it's barely recognizable as it's been chewed up to hell and back & is practically fused with the house debris:

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

More pics:

2 of the RV that was partially embedded into the ground:




Vehicles mangled not quite as severely as in previous pics, but still pretty crazy. Not the extreme tree debarking, vegetation shredding and possible grass/ground scouring in the foreground or background in some of the pics:




The SUV that was smashed into the water tower and bounced off it, reduced to a metal heap only a few feet across:




Not striclty vehicle, but this pic has crazy debris granulation, tree debarking and an axle frame with two wheels attached to it near the bottom of the photo, near the tree limb with all of its branches completely stripped. Wild stuff:




Another car mangled beyond recognition:




Cab from the 18-wheeler that was torn apart:

 

[Ivanthetornadoenthusiast]

Does anyone here have photos from Crowell tornado of April 28th, 1942?

 

[HAwkmoon]

More pics:

2 of the RV that was partially embedded into the ground:

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Vehicles mangled not quite as severely as in previous pics, but still pretty crazy. Not the extreme tree debarking, vegetation shredding and possible grass/ground scouring in the foreground or background in some of the pics:

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The SUV that was smashed into the water tower and bounced off it, reduced to a metal heap only a few feet across:

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Not striclty vehicle, but this pic has crazy debris granulation, tree debarking and an axle frame with two wheels attached to it near the bottom of the photo, near the tree limb with all of its branches completely stripped. Wild stuff:

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In my view the most violent tornado to ever touchdown (that we know of) in dixie alley.

 

[SouthFLwx]

More pics:

2 of the RV that was partially embedded into the ground:

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Vehicles mangled not quite as severely as in previous pics, but still pretty crazy. Not the extreme tree debarking, vegetation shredding and possible grass/ground scouring in the foreground or background in some of the pics:

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The SUV that was smashed into the water tower and bounced off it, reduced to a metal heap only a few feet across:

View attachment 31088


Not striclty vehicle, but this pic has crazy debris granulation, tree debarking and an axle frame with two wheels attached to it near the bottom of the photo, near the tree limb with all of its branches completely stripped. Wild stuff:

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Ngl, if I were to make my own chart of the EF scale, I would use that last picture for the example of EF5 damage. Whatever house was there is completely gone, there are no vehicles in site, the trees are completely debarked, there is some ground scouring, and the debris is granulated. Truly the worst you can get in terms of tornado damage, which is why I would use this picture for the poster child of EF5 damage.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Ngl, if I were to make my own chart of the EF scale, I would use that last picture for the example of EF5 damage. Whatever house was there is completely gone, there are no vehicles in site, the trees are completely debarked, there is some ground scouring, and the debris is granulated. Truly the worst you can get in terms of tornado damage, which is why I would use this picture for the poster child of EF5 damage.

No kidding, Smithville is about as violent as you can get (it and El Reno 2011). This house or that one house from El Reno that basically vanished and all the ground was scoured around would be the other poster child for EF5 damage I'd use.