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Significant Tornado Events

Ngl, if I were to make my own chart of the EF scale, I would use that last picture for the example of EF5 damage. Whatever house was there is completely gone, there are no vehicles in site, the trees are completely debarked, there is some ground scouring, and the debris is granulated. Truly the worst you can get in terms of tornado damage, which is why I would use this picture for the poster child of EF5 damage.
No kidding, Smithville is about as violent as you can get (it and El Reno 2011). This house or that one house from El Reno that basically vanished and all the ground was scoured around would be the other poster child for EF5 damage I'd use.
 
On the topic of Smithville, other extremely impressive damage feats:

1. A bed & breakfast that was demolished, the majority of cinderblocks were pulverized into chunks, only a few remained in one piece:Smithville_2.jpg

2. The mud you see on the foundation is actually granulated brick, considering the 60+ mph forward speed, this is extremely impressive.

Smithville_3.jpg

3. To quote the article directly "Perhaps the most intense vegetation damage ever photographed in tornado history. Not only was the bark blasted off of a particularly durable species of hardwood, pieces of the wood itself began to shave off".

Smithville_4.jpg

4. Likely a leaf is shorn into the bark of this tree, but not entirely sure:

Smithville_5.jpg
 
RE: 2011 Super Outbreak tornadoes.

I don't know much about Philadelphia. I saw a few pages ago some seemed to think it was an F4.

If you think Philadelphia was an F5 (or EF5, whatever), why? If not, why?

If not, which tornadoes from the day do you think were more violent?

Personally, I believe Tuscaloosa-Birmingham and especially New Wren were F5s. Not sure about the likes of Shoal Creek or Flat Rock.
 
RE: 2011 Super Outbreak tornadoes.

I don't know much about Philadelphia. I saw a few pages ago some seemed to think it was an F4.

If you think Philadelphia was an F5 (or EF5, whatever), why? If not, why?

If not, which tornadoes from the day do you think were more violent?

Personally, I believe Tuscaloosa-Birmingham and especially New Wren were F5s. Not sure about the likes of Shoal Creek or Flat Rock.
tornadoes I think should have been rated EF5 from the 2011 Super Outbreak: Hackleburg, Smithville, Tuscaloosa, Rainsville, and Rinngold
 
RE: 2011 Super Outbreak tornadoes.

I don't know much about Philadelphia. I saw a few pages ago some seemed to think it was an F4.

If you think Philadelphia was an F5 (or EF5, whatever), why? If not, why?

If not, which tornadoes from the day do you think were more violent?

Personally, I believe Tuscaloosa-Birmingham and especially New Wren were F5s. Not sure about the likes of Shoal Creek or Flat Rock.
I stand by Philadelphia being an EF5 with 100% certainty. I’m not going to get into my reasoning here, but I can if people are curious. I’m also not an expert but many experts share the same sentiment.

New Wren, Flat Rock, Tuscaloosa, Bridgeport, Cordova, Cullman, and Ringgold were all EF5 tornadoes at their peak intensities with almost zero doubt in my mind. However, based on the contingencies of the scale, I believe only New Wren and and maybe Tuscaloosa deserve the rating fully. The others did not do EF5 damage based on how the scale is defined. I suppose you could make the argument that Flat Rock (edited from Cullman, my bad) did too, but it’s a little semantic at that point.
 
I stand by Philadelphia being an EF5 with 100% certainty. I’m not going to get into my reasoning here, but I can if people are curious. I’m also not an expert but many experts share the same sentiment.

New Wren, Flat Rock, Tuscaloosa, Bridgeport, Cordova, Cullman, and Ringgold were all EF5 tornadoes at their peak intensities with almost zero doubt in my mind. However, based on the contingencies of the scale, I believe only New Wren and and maybe Tuscaloosa deserve the rating fully. The others did not do EF5 damage based on how the scale is defined. I suppose you could make the argument that Flat Rock (edited from Cullman, my bad) did too, but it’s a little semantic at that point.
I, for one, would be happy to know your reasoning!
 
I, for one, would be happy to know your reasoning!
I’ll list my big three reasons here, in order from most impressive to least:

1. Extreme ground scouring that coincides with deep trenching and other extreme contextuals/damage. This is by far the biggest case for why this tornado got the rating and the surveyors gave it the EF5 rating based on this, and it’s valid. While people (quite understandably) make the assumption that any tornado that does “trenching” is automatically violent, it is actually not the case - some far weaker tornadoes have been known to do this sort of damage to the ground. However, the trenching done by Philadelphia was clearly and evidently very unique and indicated EF5 intensity. For one, the trenching done by the storm is consistent in long streaks, and is preceded by impressive grass scouring comparable to other violent tornadoes.

The biggest reason why this indicates EF5 intensity, however, is because of how the trenching was done. If we compare it to other dug trenches from other weaker tornadoes (Mayfield comes to mind) the trenching done by that tornado is more like a “sheet” was peeled from the ground, which to me (and others who are more qualified than me) indicates that the top layer of soil was particularly prone to high winds there. In Philadelphia’s case, it was a compact grazing pasture that was studied after the fact and found to be very similar to Plains soils used for cattle farms and whatnot (I don’t remember the exact source of this but I’ve heard it repeated on multiple outlets). The grass in these trenches was forcefully ripped and stripped out of the bedrock in large clumps of dirt. It obviously takes immense force to do this, and it helps that Smithville did something similar and arguably less intense before inflicting, as you know, some of the most intense EF5 damage ever documented. It also lasted for nearly 200 yards, which I believe would be enough for it to not just be considered a weaker layer of soil. There’s much more that could be said about this particular point, but I’m not going to get into it here as it is beyond my level of understanding.

This, to me, is the bottom line in why this tornado deserved EF5, and the surveyors seemed to think this to the point where they went outside the confines of the scale.

2. Contextuals coinciding with this damage. A very large tree in the path of the extreme scouring was entirely debarked and ripped out by the root ball, then tossed ~40 yards outside of the scouring. Pavement scouring was also noted later in the path, where the trenching was existent but less intense. The second area of EF5 damage was arguably not EF5 intensity despite being given the rating and I can understand that, but even if it’s not, it still adds credence to the idea that the first area of EF5 damage was in fact EF5 damage. Also, the third point does support maxed-out damage in the second area.

3. The occupied double wide mobile home. If you are not aware of what happened here, a double wide mobile home with three people inside (RIP to these victims) was picked up, and in a single toss, thrown 300 yards without having touched the ground a single time. It disintegrated and was granulated upon impact with the ground. This, again, was co-located with the second area of EF5 rated damage. There’s probably more that could be said about these points individually, as well as more reasons I didn’t say here, but I believe these three reasons are more than enough evidence to support not just baseline, but high end EF5 intensity. I do not see a baseline EF5 doing some of this damage. That’s my two cents.
 
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The trenching at Philadelphia was done in hard clay, a soil which I'm familiar with. When it's dry it's almost like concrete, and when it gets rained on it sheds water leaving the subsurface layers still as hard as they were. The only soil I know that would be harder to trench is the 'hardpan' found in Texas and parts of the Central and SW US, including at Jarrell. Trenching either deeply is F-5/EF-5 territory without a doubt and likely well above the minimums for that. The red clay tends to separate in layers, so shallow 'scouring' is more possible with it not necessarily meeting the "5" threshold, I still feel that contextuals, even singular ones which never occur with lower strengths, are as valid as the listed DI's and there were enough of these to make the grade in Philadelphia too.
 
The trenching at Philadelphia was done in hard clay, a soil which I'm familiar with. When it's dry it's almost like concrete, and when it gets rained on it sheds water leaving the subsurface layers still as hard as they were. The only soil I know that would be harder to trench is the 'hardpan' found in Texas and parts of the Central and SW US, including at Jarrell. Trenching either deeply is F-5/EF-5 territory without a doubt and likely well above the minimums for that. The red clay tends to separate in layers, so shallow 'scouring' is more possible with it not necessarily meeting the "5" threshold, I still feel that contextuals, even singular ones which never occur with lower strengths, are as valid as the listed DI's and there were enough of these to make the grade in Philadelphia too.
Philadelphia was a monster. It was lucky that did not hit a more populated area or you would see much more destruction of life. I think this is why people were questioning it because it hit in the woods and not in the middle of town It actually was lucky when it hit the tornado decided to hit Smithville. When that storm came most everyone was out of town at work. There is no plant or employment in town. If that storm hit at 5:30, you would see the death toll at least double if not, triple.
 
I’ll list my big three reasons here, in order from most impressive to least:

1. Extreme ground scouring that coincides with deep trenching and other extreme contextuals/damage. This is by far the biggest case for why this tornado got the rating and the surveyors gave it the EF5 rating based on this, and it’s valid. While people (quite understandably) make the assumption that any tornado that does “trenching” is automatically violent, it is actually not the case - some far weaker tornadoes have been known to do this sort of damage to the ground. However, the trenching done by Philadelphia was clearly and evidently very unique and indicated EF5 intensity. For one, the trenching done by the storm is consistent in long streaks, and is preceded by impressive grass scouring comparable to other violent tornadoes.

The biggest reason why this indicates EF5 intensity, however, is because of how the trenching was done. If we compare it to other dug trenches from other weaker tornadoes (Mayfield comes to mind) the trenching done by that tornado is more like a “sheet” was peeled from the ground, which to me (and others who are more qualified than me) indicates that the top layer of soil was particularly prone to high winds there. In Philadelphia’s case, it was a compact grazing pasture that was studied after the fact and found to be very similar to Plains soils used for cattle farms and whatnot (I don’t remember the exact source of this but I’ve heard it repeated on multiple outlets). The grass in these trenches was forcefully ripped and stripped out of the bedrock in large clumps of dirt. It obviously takes immense force to do this, and it helps that Smithville did something similar and arguably less intense before inflicting, as you know, some of the most intense EF5 damage ever documented. It also lasted for nearly 200 yards, which I believe would be enough for it to not just be considered a weaker layer of soil. There’s much more that could be said about this particular point, but I’m not going to get into it here as it is beyond my level of understanding.

This, to me, is the bottom line in why this tornado deserved EF5, and the surveyors seemed to think this to the point where they went outside the confines of the scale.

2. Contextuals coinciding with this damage. A very large tree in the path of the extreme scouring was entirely debarked and ripped out by the root ball, then tossed ~40 yards outside of the scouring. Pavement scouring was also noted later in the path, where the trenching was existent but less intense. The second area of EF5 damage was arguably not EF5 intensity despite being given the rating and I can understand that, but even if it’s not, it still adds credence to the idea that the first area of EF5 damage was in fact EF5 damage. Also, the third point does support maxed-out damage in the second area.

3. The occupied double wide mobile home. If you are not aware of what happened here, a double wide mobile home with three people inside (RIP to these victims) was picked up, and in a single toss, thrown 300 yards without having touched the ground a single time. It disintegrated and was granulated upon impact with the ground. This, again, was co-located with the second area of EF5 rated damage. There’s probably more that could be said about these points individually, as well as more reasons I didn’t say here, but I believe these three reasons are more than enough evidence to support not just baseline, but high end EF5 intensity. I do not see a baseline EF5 doing some of this damage. That’s my two cents.
Philadelphia is a weird case, in that the trenching of the soil, left the grass on top of it relatively ok. Furthermore, the soil itself was already cracked before the tornado had impacted the area. Which suggests to me, that the trenching had some other factors to it. Though I agree it was EF5 intensity, I am doubting whether or not the trenching truly required extraordinary winds to produce given these discrepancies.
 
The trenching at Philadelphia was done in hard clay, a soil which I'm familiar with. When it's dry it's almost like concrete, and when it gets rained on it sheds water leaving the subsurface layers still as hard as they were. The only soil I know that would be harder to trench is the 'hardpan' found in Texas and parts of the Central and SW US, including at Jarrell. Trenching either deeply is F-5/EF-5 territory without a doubt and likely well above the minimums for that. The red clay tends to separate in layers, so shallow 'scouring' is more possible with it not necessarily meeting the "5" threshold, I still feel that contextuals, even singular ones which never occur with lower strengths, are as valid as the listed DI's and there were enough of these to make the grade in Philadelphia too.
That hard clay soil in the south is prone to patchy, trench-like scouring. There were 2 trenches dug by the tornado in that field; there's a skip between them. Something similar happened with the 1998 Lawrenceburg "Forgotten F5".
 
That hard clay soil in the south is prone to patchy, trench-like scouring. There were 2 trenches dug by the tornado in that field; there's a skip between them. Something similar happened with the 1998 Lawrenceburg "Forgotten F5".
Not doubting you, but can you cite other examples? It seems to me that if it was that easy to occur, we'd have seen plenty of it in Dixie alley's strong tornadoes, and I haven't seen that. This clay does tend to form layers, and when dry clumps or chunks separated by cracks, so those would dislodge similarly but layers underneath those would be more homogeneous and stronger.

The wall damage in Joplin is impressive, and yes there was was a house on a street corner in the Hackleburg tornado where the exposed concrete 'walk out' basement wall was similarly destroyed. If my memory serves me correctly, that one was pushed outward and the remains flung dozens of yards away mostly as a whole. That was some of the most impressive damage from that tornado to me.
 
Stuff I got from Spencer 1998:
Severe vegetation damage at the Spencer water tower. It looks like granulated debris is covering the ground:
IMG_1057.jpeg
Another view of the Spencer water tower, showing what looks to be an impact mark, but I’m unsure:
IMG_1058.jpeg
Top middle and bottom right shows 2 homes swept away, first of which appears to be a slab foundation.
IMG_1051.png
Aerial of Spencer. This is one of the photos that makes me wonder why Spencer is a “marginal F4”:
IMG_1029.jpeg
Edit: Here they are. I think the first photo shows cracked stone stairs:
IMG_1060.jpeg
Another view of the water tower:
IMG_1059.jpeg
Mobile home wrapped around tree. Might be the least impressive of these photos:
IMG_1061.jpeg
 

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