Significant Tornado Events

[MNTornadoGuy]

One thing about 4/3/74 that's always struck me as strange is there isn't a whole lot of accounts involving ground/topspoil scouring asphalt/pavement scouring (if any). I'm sure it happened but for whatever reason there isn't much documentation of it available. I know at least one of the Tanner tornadoes dug up soil around the Tennesse River and plastered it against trees but that's to be expected with river-loosened soil (probably quicksand for all we know). It wouldn't surprise me if Guin scoured asphalt/pavement and topsoil but for whatever reason no photographs of that are available.

There are some photos from Guin that appear to show ground scouring.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

There are some photos from Guin that appear to show ground scouring.

There are? Are they clear?

EDIT: You're right, I forgot about those (I looked through my photos collection on my computer); yeah, Guin and Brandenburg appear to have done major ground scouring.

 

[MNTornadoGuy]

There are? Are they clear?

 

[buckeye05]

There are? Are they clear?

EDIT: You're right, I forgot about those (I looked through my photos collection on my computer); yeah, Guin and Brandenburg appear to have done major ground scouring.

Guin produced arguably the most intense ground scouring to be photographed in Alabama. Lawns were scoured down to bare soil in some areas in just a matter of seconds (photographed above)

Also, the only reason we know this to be true is some recently discovered photos. There’s zero mention of it from Grazulis, the NWS, Storm Data, media reports, or anywhere else.

 

[MNTornadoGuy]

Guin does remind me of Smithville a bit with how it cut a narrow but extremely violent swath through town though it was probably not as violent as Smithville.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Guin does remind me of Smithville a bit with how it cut a narrow but extremely violent swath through town though it was probably not as violent as Smithville.

Probably on par with Hackleburg, if a step above it. It was around a mile wide but it's core seems to have been pretty narrow, probably no more then 100 yards or so.
Also, I forgot about this post awhile back: https://talkweather.com/threads/significant-tornado-events.1276/page-113#post-52136

J.B. Elliott may have a bunch of photos, according to this poster.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Guin produced arguably the most intense ground scouring to be photographed in Alabama. Lawns were scoured down to bare soil in some areas in just a matter of seconds (photographed above)

Also, the only reason we know this to be true is some recently discovered photos. There’s zero mention of it from Grazulis, the NWS, Storm Data, media reports, or anywhere else.

How extreme was the ground scouring from Hackleburg?

 

[buckeye05]

There was an eyewitness who was describing the Brandenburg damage in more rural areas southwest of town, and he said that the tornado “left no grass” in areas near Kentucky Highway 79.

Unfortunately, I’ve been unable to find photos of this exact spot. I do believe that the house which had its poured concrete basement wall blown in was along that general segment of the path though, which further suggests extreme intensity.

 

[buckeye05]

How extreme was the ground scouring from Hackleburg?

Severe but not as bad as other EF5s from what I've seen. The worst if it seems to have been limited to some grass partially scoured from hillsides in Phil Campbell.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

There was an eyewitness who was describing the Brandenburg damage in more rural areas southwest of town, and he said that the tornado “left no grass” in areas near Kentucky Highway 79.

Unfortunately, I’ve been unable to find photos of this exact spot. I do believe that the house which had its poured concrete basement wall blown in was along that general segment of the path though, which further suggests extreme intensity.

I think I know the black and white photo in the area that supposedly had no grass; it was mentioned in the old website on 4/3/74.

My post on it: https://talkweather.com/threads/significant-tornado-events.1276/page-45#post-47221

The link:

Don Macy Photos of April 3 1974

Look in the bottom 3 rows, the caption says
"Looking south toward Irvington..Tornado crossed the road at this point..the tornado removed all the grass at this point"

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Severe but not as bad as other EF5s from what I've seen. The worst if it seems to have been limited to some grass partially scoured from hillsides in Phil Campbell.

Did the Oak Grove get ground scouring, or was that just wind-rowing of debris?
Also, given that Hackleburg was limited to hillside scouring (although I'll to read through TornadoTalk's article on it so see what else they dug up) it makes Guin's scouring really impressive as it was flat ground and not just elevated ground and given that according to Grazulis it may have moved up to 75 mph in places.

 

[buckeye05]

Did the Oak Grove get ground scouring, or was that just wind-rowing of debris?
Also, given that Hackleburg was limited to hillside scouring (although I'll to read through TornadoTalk's article on it so see what else they dug up) it makes Guin's scouring really impressive as it was flat ground and not just elevated ground and given that according to Grazulis it may have moved up to 75 mph in places.

There was a distinct lack of notable ground scouring in the Oak Grove area, though everything else there was quite extreme in terms of damage. Also yes Guin produced all that scouring in literally just seconds.

I think I know the black and white photo in the area that supposedly had no grass; it was mentioned in the old website on 4/3/74.

My post on it: https://talkweather.com/threads/significant-tornado-events.1276/page-45#post-47221

The link:

Don Macy Photos of April 3 1974

Look in the bottom 3 rows, the caption says
"Looking south toward Irvington..Tornado crossed the road at this point..the tornado removed all the grass at this point"

Yeah I know of those photos, but there isn't anything in them I would call scouring. I'm sure there was some within the immediate vicinity though.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

There was a distinct lack of notable ground scouring in the Oak Grove area, though everything else there was quite extreme in terms of damage. Also yes Guin produced all that scouring in literally just seconds.


Yeah I know of those photos, but there isn't anything in them I would call scouring. I'm sure there was some within the immediate vicinity though.

For Guin, I've been going through the PDF for 'A Night to Remember' again and it looks some other photos of ground scouring are available for Guin but you really have to look and the black and white quality makes it impossible to know for sure.
Until the release of that PDF and a couple newspaper articles I found through this article there was basically nothing out there about Guin; really is a puzzle as to why. Is it possible to access Fujita's original surveys of Guin and the like online, or they all hidden behind paywalls?

 

[MNTornadoGuy]

For Guin, I've been going through the PDF for 'A Night to Remember' again and it looks some other photos of ground scouring are available for Guin but you really have to look and the black and white quality makes it impossible to know for sure.
Until the release of that PDF and a couple newspaper articles I found through this article there was basically nothing out there about Guin; really is a puzzle as to why. Is it possible to access Fujita's original surveys of Guin and the like online, or they all hidden behind paywalls?

The original surveys are likely at Texas Tech and only available physically.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

The original surveys are likely at Texas Tech and only available physically.

Man, that's a shame. Amazing in this day & age stuff like this is still a problem.

 

[MNTornadoGuy]

For the 2nd largest outbreak, the 2nd deadliest, and most violent tornado outbreak in US history (of the post-1950 era), the 1974 Super Outbreak is somewhat poorly-documented which I find rather surprising. Many of the violent tornadoes such as Sayler Park have little information available about them.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

For the 2nd largest outbreak, the 2nd deadliest, and most violent tornado outbreak in US history (of the post-1950 era), the 1974 Super Outbreak is somewhat poorly-documented which I find rather surprising. Many of the violent tornadoes such as Sayler Park have little information available about them.

What's amazing is that stuff like Tupelo-Gainesville 1936, Palm Sunday 1965, and so many of the 1950s outbreaks are better documented than stuff like 4/3/74 or the 1966 Candlestick Park tornado family.

 

[pohnpei]

Severe but not as bad as other EF5s from what I've seen. The worst if it seems to have been limited to some grass partially scoured from hillsides in Phil Campbell.

There was Incredible grass scouring inside Hackleburg town. The once decent lawn turned into muddy field completely with large hardwood trees completely debarked.People sucked out of basement and wrapped around trees iaround this place. Survey team once mentioned there was very severe scouring before Hackleburg as well with all the appliance and furniture granulated into tiny pieces.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

There was Incredible grass scouring inside Hackleburg town. The once decent lawn turned into muddy field completely with large hardwood trees completely debarked.People sucked out of basement and wrapped around trees iaround this place. Survey team once mentioned there was very severe scouring before Hackleburg as well with all the appliance and furniture granulated into tiny pieces.
View attachment 13577
View attachment 13578

I can't quite tell what's scouring and what's just brown from debris....

 

[pohnpei]

I can't quite tell what's scouring and what's just brown from debris....

from before after view and close ground view
It's easy to see grass in the core of the tornado completely gone.