Significant Tornado Events

[MNTornadoGuy]

The slab appears to at the least have sill plating.

 

[buckeye05]

The slab appears to at the least have sill plating.
View attachment 10396

Oh it does, which suggests traditional anchoring methods (bolts) were used. I just wish there was a way to confirm it for 100% sure.

 

[Shakespeare 2016]

I just don’t believe that an F5 or EF5 rating should be given in any situation where there is a lack of anchor bolting, regardless of context. Not saying that’s definitely the case here, but it is possible.

I’d also be careful about putting to much weight on the removal of plumbing features, as I don’t know of any study or case where plumbing damage was used as basis for an F5 or EF5 rating. I do know it was used as anecdotal support in Smithville, but there was already an immense amount of additional evidence that screamed EF5.

WHY? THE PHILADELPHIA TORNADO GIVEN AN EF5 RATING BASED ON OVER 2 FEET OF GROUND SCOURING AND THE EL RENO 2011 TORNADO GIVEN AN EF5 RATING BASED MAINLY ON 2 MILLION POUND OIL RIG BEING ROLLED SEVERAL TIMES. THIS THING WITH WELL-BUILT ANCHORED HOMES BECAUSE THERE IS OTHER CONTEXTUAL EVIDENCE THAT SHOULD BE USED TO DETERMINE AN EF5 RATING. I ALSO DON'T ALWAYS BELIEVE EXPERTS SPOUT OUT BECAUSE THE EF-SCALE NEEDS MORE DI'S AND IS INCOMPLETE.

 

[Shakespeare 2016]

I just don’t believe that an F5 or EF5 rating should be given in any situation where there is a lack of anchor bolting, regardless of context. Not saying that’s definitely the case here, but it is possible.

I’d also be careful about putting to much weight on the removal of plumbing features, as I don’t know of any study or case where plumbing damage was used as basis for an F5 or EF5 rating. I do know it was used as anecdotal support in Smithville, but there was already an immense amount of additional evidence that screamed EF5.

You do agree with the EF5 rating for the Philadelphia and El Reno 2011 tornadoes?

 

[MNTornadoGuy]

WHY? THE PHILADELPHIA TORNADO GIVEN AN EF5 RATING BASED ON OVER 2 FEET OF GROUND SCOURING AND THE EL RENO 2011 TORNADO GIVEN AN EF5 RATING BASED MAINLY ON 2 MILLION POUND OIL RIG BEING ROLLED SEVERAL TIMES. THIS THING WITH WELL-BUILT ANCHORED HOMES BECAUSE THERE IS OTHER CONTEXTUAL EVIDENCE THAT SHOULD BE USED TO DETERMINE AN EF5 RATING. I ALSO DON'T ALWAYS BELIEVE EXPERTS SPOUT OUT BECAUSE THE EF-SCALE NEEDS MORE DI'S AND IS INCOMPLETE.

Well this contextual/structural damage from Westminster even though it is violent, it is a far cry from tornadoes like El Reno 2011, and Philadelphia 2011.

 

[andyhb]

WHY? THE PHILADELPHIA TORNADO GIVEN AN EF5 RATING BASED ON OVER 2 FEET OF GROUND SCOURING AND THE EL RENO 2011 TORNADO GIVEN AN EF5 RATING BASED MAINLY ON 2 MILLION POUND OIL RIG BEING ROLLED SEVERAL TIMES. THIS THING WITH WELL-BUILT ANCHORED HOMES BECAUSE THERE IS OTHER CONTEXTUAL EVIDENCE THAT SHOULD BE USED TO DETERMINE AN EF5 RATING. I ALSO DON'T ALWAYS BELIEVE EXPERTS SPOUT OUT BECAUSE THE EF-SCALE NEEDS MORE DI'S AND IS INCOMPLETE.

You don't need to type in all caps to get your point across.

 

[TH2002]

Well this contextual/structural damage from Westminster even though it is violent, it is a far cry from tornadoes like El Reno 2011, and Philadelphia 2011.

Of the three tornadoes I would say Westminster was definitely the weakest, but all three were still well into the F5/EF5 category IMHO.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

WHY? THE PHILADELPHIA TORNADO GIVEN AN EF5 RATING BASED ON OVER 2 FEET OF GROUND SCOURING AND THE EL RENO 2011 TORNADO GIVEN AN EF5 RATING BASED MAINLY ON 2 MILLION POUND OIL RIG BEING ROLLED SEVERAL TIMES. THIS THING WITH WELL-BUILT ANCHORED HOMES BECAUSE THERE IS OTHER CONTEXTUAL EVIDENCE THAT SHOULD BE USED TO DETERMINE AN EF5 RATING. I ALSO DON'T ALWAYS BELIEVE EXPERTS SPOUT OUT BECAUSE THE EF-SCALE NEEDS MORE DI'S AND IS INCOMPLETE.

Probably don't need to type in all caps here, looks like you're screaming lol.

 

[buckeye05]

WHY? THE PHILADELPHIA TORNADO GIVEN AN EF5 RATING BASED ON OVER 2 FEET OF GROUND SCOURING AND THE EL RENO 2011 TORNADO GIVEN AN EF5 RATING BASED MAINLY ON 2 MILLION POUND OIL RIG BEING ROLLED SEVERAL TIMES. THIS THING WITH WELL-BUILT ANCHORED HOMES BECAUSE THERE IS OTHER CONTEXTUAL EVIDENCE THAT SHOULD BE USED TO DETERMINE AN EF5 RATING. I ALSO DON'T ALWAYS BELIEVE EXPERTS SPOUT OUT BECAUSE THE EF-SCALE NEEDS MORE DI'S AND IS INCOMPLETE.

Philadelphia, MS is obviously an exception to this. Relax.

No matter what you believe, this is the way that the scale is applied, and anchoring is absolutely critical for an EF5 rating to be considered. Sorry, but I put more stock in published scientific AMS journals, studies on tornado damage, and presentations by experts, so I’m gonna give it to you plain: you do not know more than the experts.

 

[TH2002]

The more I look, the more I become convinced that tornadoes in Russia's Siberian Federal District and the Far Eastern Federal District are much more common than most of us think. The climate in these regions is mostly subarctic with some tundra and some humid continental. Non-supercell waterspout tornadoes forming over lakes and landspouts seem to be the most common type of tornado in this region, because they generally require less atmospheric moisture to form. Supercell tornadoes, while rarer, are not unheard of. Supercell thunderstorms and tornadoes almost always occur in the early summer months in this region, when the storms have more diurnal heating, atmospheric moisture, wind shear and other parameters to work with. Landspouts and waterspouts generally occur in the summer months as well, but seem to have a wider window than supercell tornadoes. Searches on YouTube (in Russian) for tornadoes in this region pulls up quite a few results. With that said, it's possible tornadoes there are even more common than YouTube would imply because of Russia's massive size and the low population density in Siberia and the Far East.

 

[Shakespeare 2016]

Probably don't need to type in all caps here, looks like you're screaming lol.

No when I was typing the message I failed to realize the caps were on before it was too late and I was almost done. I didn't want to have to rewrite the message.

 

[TH2002]

I'm gonna step in before things get too chaotic. We've all been here on this thread multiple times and I don't want it to devolve into arguing again.

 

[TH2002]

Example of a supercell tornado in southwestern Siberia (Omsk Oblast) June 2017.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Example of a supercell tornado in southwestern Siberia (Omsk Oblast) June 2017.

Given how hollow and stationary it is, this seems more likely a landspout than a true tornado.

 

[TH2002]

Given how hollow and stationary it is, this seems more likely a landspout than a true tornado.

It does remind me a lot of the 2019 Allen SD tornado which was descbribed as a "hybrid" between a landspout and supercell tornado:

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

It does remind me a lot of the 2019 Allen SD tornado which was descbribed as a "hybrid" between a landspout and supercell tornado:

Not sure how a hybrid of the two would come about.....

Also, do you know of any instances of landspouts being violent, non-stationary and doing significant damage or resulting in fatalities?

 

[locomusic01]

Just sort of stumbled upon this one. The John Speirs farm west of Miller, SD was known as "one of the finest in the county," at least until July 1, 1928. That afternoon, a large F4 tornado swept across the property and leveled every single structure, sweeping several of them away and throwing heavy machinery up to half a mile. The photos here are quite small and don't offer a lot of detail, but the before and after is rather striking:

Btw, I assume the graphic says July 3 because that's when the photo was taken. The tornado itself occurred on July 1.

 

[TH2002]

Not sure how a hybrid of the two would come about.....

Also, do you know of any instances of landspouts being violent, non-stationary and doing significant damage or resulting in fatalities?

Never heard of a landspout being a violent EF4 or EF5 tornado, but I did read in a PDF that the 1988 Denver F3 tornado was a landspout. Not sure if that's true though.

edit: Here is the PDF

https://www.weather.gov/media/ama/Dryline_06Fallfinal.pdf

 

[TH2002]

Just sort of stumbled upon this one. The John Speirs farm west of Miller, SD was known as "one of the finest in the county," at least until July 1, 1928. That afternoon, a large F4 tornado swept across the property and leveled every single structure, sweeping several of them away and throwing heavy machinery up to half a mile. The photos here are quite small and don't offer a lot of detail, but the before and after is rather striking:

Btw, I assume the graphic says July 3 because that's when the photo was taken. The tornado itself occurred on July 1.

I know it's virtually impossible to accurately rate a tornado based on a single damage photo, but certainly looks like an F5 candidate.

 

[buckeye05]

Example of a supercell tornado in southwestern Siberia (Omsk Oblast) June 2017.

Reminds me strongly of the Tahoka, TX EF2 of 2019.