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Significant Tornado Events (2 Viewers)


Messages
74
Location
Lenexa, KS
Maybe sort of like Elie, MB in that respect.
There was one thing I noticed with the Elie tornado is the scouring it did was minimal. However, the home, the van, and the tree debarking was really impressive. The house that received the F5 rating was probably built better than most American homes. The bolts were broken off on some parts of the house.
 

locomusic01

Member
Messages
84
Location
Pennsylvania
Not weather, haha. I work on European history. I’m trying to find a way to work weather into it. I feel like there’s something to be done on the 1984 outbreak in the Soviet Union. There are all those rumors about the Ivanovo tornado doing absurd things but I’ve never seen any real independent confirmation of it (probably because there aren’t many people researching weather history who speak Russian). I’m working on learning Russian now for work reasons so maybe one day I can do that.
Neat. I'd initially wanted to become a historian when I was in school until I realized I probably don't have the attention span for it.

Regarding the 6/9/84 Russian outbreak, that one is definitely frustrating/tantalizing. As you said, so many rumors and spectacular claims, yet so little actual evidence. There has been a bit more research into the event of late, though, which has helped to clear things up a little bit. Among other things, it turns out the Ivanovo - Lunevo tornado, as was long suspected but never known, was indeed more than one tornado. Working off vague memory here, but I believe a survey of satellite imagery found that the tornado lifted for several miles between Ivanovo and Lunevo. It appears some of the more exceptional tales (reinforced concrete buildings being completely swept away, etc) were also exaggerated, though it's clear it was still a very intense tornado.

I have a handful of photos, some of which show pretty significant structural/vegetation damage, but it's still hard to discern much useful info from them. The one photo purportedly shows the 50-ton water tank that was thrown 200 meters. Another is said to show the earth "literally torn up from its roots," though it's hard to tell if it's actually ground scouring or not. Also some transmission towers toppled and such. And another photo supposedly shows the 710,000 lb crane that was "picked up and cast aside." Who knows.


If you'd like, I can dig up some other info. I've got a few papers on the outbreak as well as some written accounts in Russian that are still fairly readable once translated. I've got a friend who is Russian and I keep pestering him to help me research the event, but no luck so far lol
 
Messages
74
Location
Lenexa, KS
Neat. I'd initially wanted to become a historian when I was in school until I realized I probably don't have the attention span for it.

Regarding the 6/9/84 Russian outbreak, that one is definitely frustrating/tantalizing. As you said, so many rumors and spectacular claims, yet so little actual evidence. There has been a bit more research into the event of late, though, which has helped to clear things up a little bit. Among other things, it turns out the Ivanovo - Lunevo tornado, as was long suspected but never known, was indeed more than one tornado. Working off vague memory here, but I believe a survey of satellite imagery found that the tornado lifted for several miles between Ivanovo and Lunevo. It appears some of the more exceptional tales (reinforced concrete buildings being completely swept away, etc) were also exaggerated, though it's clear it was still a very intense tornado.

I have a handful of photos, some of which show pretty significant structural/vegetation damage, but it's still hard to discern much useful info from them. The one photo purportedly shows the 50-ton water tank that was thrown 200 meters. Another is said to show the earth "literally torn up from its roots," though it's hard to tell if it's actually ground scouring or not. Also some transmission towers toppled and such. And another photo supposedly shows the 710,000 lb crane that was "picked up and cast aside." Who knows.


If you'd like, I can dig up some other info. I've got a few papers on the outbreak as well as some written accounts in Russian that are still fairly readable once translated. I've got a friend who is Russian and I keep pestering him to help me research the event, but no luck so far lol
That damage looks really intense. What was this tornado rated?
 

Equus

Member
Messages
1,141
Location
Saragossa, AL
What fascinates me is the part of the world that outbreak happened. We have comparable outbreaks in the US a few times a century, but imagine how exceptionally rare conditions favorable for an outbreak of that intensity must be in Russia. Wonder if synoptic and surface charts across Europe would be anywhere near complete enough over the last century to tell how often a setup like that happens.
 

locomusic01

Member
Messages
84
Location
Pennsylvania
Here's a video also. Again hard to tell very much, but there are some pretty impressive shots in there.


Another as well. I assume the construction was probably poor, but the one shot shows really extensive destruction:

 
Messages
74
Location
Lenexa, KS
What fascinates me is the part of the world that outbreak happened. We have comparable outbreaks in the US a few times a century, but imagine how exceptionally rare conditions favorable for an outbreak of that intensity must be in Russia. Wonder if synoptic and surface charts across Europe would be anywhere near complete enough over the last century to tell how often a setup like that happens.
The F5 rating seems reasonable. I was thinking at least a high-end F4.
 
Messages
74
Location
Lenexa, KS
I know some of you were talking about 2006 when numerous tornadoes were rated high-end F3 though some of those should have been rated low-end F4 to even high-end F4.
 

locomusic01

Member
Messages
84
Location
Pennsylvania
Okay, last two. Some good photos and info here (just have your browser translate it for you):

http://nevsedoma.com.ua/index.php?newsid=322749

And an interesting paper on Russian scientists using Landsat/MODIS to find that there are a lot more tornadoes in Russia than previously known, including some rather substantial ones:

 
Messages
74
Location
Lenexa, KS
Okay, last two. Some good photos and info here (just have your browser translate it for you):

http://nevsedoma.com.ua/index.php?newsid=322749

And an interesting paper on Russian scientists using Landsat/MODIS to find that there are a lot more tornadoes in Russia than previously known, including some rather substantial ones:

There was a tornado outside the US in Argentina that seemed really impressive. I believe it happened in January of 1973. It is believed to have been an F5. Yeah, there have been dozens of tornadoes outside the US that have been particularly intense.
 

warneagle

Member
Messages
1,392
Location
Silver Spring, MD
Special Affiliations
SKYWARN® Volunteer
There was a tornado outside the US in Argentina that seemed really impressive. I believe it happened in January of 1973. It is believed to have been an F5. Yeah, there have been dozens of tornadoes outside the US that have been particularly intense.
Yeah, and there have been a few in Europe over the years that have been suspected of being F5 strength, including one in Poland and one in Italy in the 1930s, although I don't know how reliable that survey data is.

Those photos/videos from Ivanovo are impressive, but I would agree that it's a bit inconclusive. It's obviously very intense but idk if it would have been rated F5 by American surveyors. There's also the problem of this event being pre-Glasnost, so a lot of the media coverage was likely censored and it's possible that some of the data that was collected wasn't made public. I've just always had this sneaking suspicion that there might be more information buried in the Russian archives that could shed more light on it, but that's a hunch rather than something I can prove.
 
Messages
74
Location
Lenexa, KS
Yeah, and there have been a few in Europe over the years that have been suspected of being F5 strength, including one in Poland and one in Italy in the 1930s, although I don't know how reliable that survey data is.

Those photos/videos from Ivanovo are impressive, but I would agree that it's a bit inconclusive. It's obviously very intense but idk if it would have been rated F5 by American surveyors. There's also the problem of this event being pre-Glasnost, so a lot of the media coverage was likely censored and it's possible that some of the data that was collected wasn't made public. I've just always had this sneaking suspicion that there might be more information buried in the Russian archives that could shed more light on it, but that's a hunch rather than something I can prove.
Yeah, I would probably think the Russia would rate high-end E/F4 in the US but E/F5 does not look like it is out of the question. Very impressive contextual damage.

Like I said I don't think the F5 rating given to it was unreasonable either. It seems like a borderline case.
 

Equus

Member
Messages
1,141
Location
Saragossa, AL
An outbreak that rarely gets any attention but is extremely close to me and my interests is the Veterans Weekend outbreak on November 10th 2002 that spit out F3+ tornadoes from Ohio to Alabama. The Van Wert F4 in Ohio and Mossy Grove F3 in Tennessee get the most press, but in my county in AL (Walker) three tornadoes touched down in training supercells in quick succession - two F3s and an F1.

The first F3, the Carbon Hill tornado, killed three and destroyed the school in Carbon Hill. It struck less than two miles from my house at the time while we huddled in the basement. My dad was in the fire department and was dispatched to a mobile home that had been lofted and thrown across the road and disintegrated into the trees just up from the house and had to cut through countless fallen trees on the road to get to it (the residents were somehow uninjured) and was stuck in hail and wind as the second storm passed less than an hour later. There seemed to be two distinct parallel damage paths on Prospect Road, sparing a church, suggesting perhaps multiple vortex structure.

The second F3, referred to as the Saragossa Tornado, was down for over 70 miles and killed seven (tying with Mossy Grove as the deadliest of the year) and destroyed homes of many friends and family as it struck the community I grew up in. A great-uncle of mine nearby found a body in his yard. It came within hundreds of yards of my grandparents' house and I now live on a property it directly struck, with tin and kitchen implements scattered in the woods and trees with clear evidence of a massive stress seventeen years ago. I go through the wide damage path on Highway 5 nearly every day going to Jasper; severe tree damage is still evident in places.

The Saragossa tornado 100% cemented my interest in severe weather as 11-year old me helped neighbors sort through piles of debris for what little they could salvage. I had been hooked on weather since Opal in 1995 and the April 8 and 16 1998 outbreaks, but the 2002 event struck fear into my heart and I HAD to know more about these violent behemoths. Was terrified of wind for a few years following. Not being able to get my grandparents on the phone for hours knowing it tracked basically right on top of them (they were in their basement and reported ear-affecting pressure changes and extreme wind as it passed near their back yard) was truly scary.

Here are some BMX damage photos from Saragossa. Note that many of the homes hit were weakly attached precluding an F4 rating, but I still think there may have been F4 damage points along the track somewhere; I just don't have photos to prove it. A semi truck that had been parked at a destroyed home was reportedly 'never found'. Brian Peters was the WCM at BMX in 2002 and rated based on aerial survey, with little if any ground surveying due to the extreme track length. It was one of the longer paths on record in AL at the time.

1815
1816
1817
1818
1819

I have planned on going around to the survivors of this tornado and chronicling it in extreme detail as damage photos and stories are hard to come by, most buried on now defunct web pages from the last decade. Any discussion of this event is eagerly welcomed.
 
Last edited:
Messages
74
Location
Lenexa, KS
An outbreak that rarely gets any attention but is extremely close to me and my interests is the Veterans Weekend outbreak on November 10th 2002 that spit out F3+ tornadoes from Ohio to Alabama. The Van Wert F4 in Ohio and Mossy Grove F3 in Tennessee get the most press, but in my county in AL (Walker) three tornadoes touched down in training supercells in quick succession - two F3s and an F1.

The first F3, the Carbon Hill tornado, killed three and destroyed the school in Carbon Hill. It struck less than two miles from my house at the time while we huddled in the basement. My dad was in the fire department and was dispatched to a mobile home that had been lofted and thrown across the road and disintegrated into the trees just up from the house and had to cut through countless fallen trees on the road to get to it (the residents were somehow uninjured) and was stuck in hail and wind as the second storm passed less than an hour later. There seemed to be two distinct parallel damage paths on Prospect Road, sparing a church, suggesting perhaps multiple vortex structure.

The second F3, referred to as the Saragossa Tornado, was down for over 70 miles and killed seven (tying with Mossy Grove as the deadliest of the year) and destroyed homes of many friends and family as it struck the community I grew up in. A great-uncle of mine nearby found a body in his yard. It came within hundreds of yards of my grandparents' house and I now live on a property it directly struck, with tin and kitchen implements scattered in the woods and trees with clear evidence of a massive stress seventeen years ago. I go through the wide damage path on Highway 5 nearly every day going to Jasper; severe tree damage is still evident in places.

The Saragossa tornado 100% cemented my interest in severe weather as 11-year old me helped neighbors sort through piles of debris for what little they could salvage. I had been hooked on weather since Opal in 1995 and the April 8 and 16 1998 outbreaks, but the 2002 event struck fear into my heart and I HAD to know more about these violent behemoths. Was terrified of wind for a few years following. Not being able to get my grandparents on the phone for hours knowing it tracked basically right on top of them (they were in their basement and reported ear-affecting pressure changes and extreme wind as it passed near their back yard) was truly scary.

Here are some BMX damage photos from Saragossa. Note that many of the homes hit were weakly attached precluding an F4 rating, but I still think there may have been F4 damage points along the track somewhere; I just don't have photos to prove it. A semi truck that had been parked at a destroyed home was reportedly 'never found'. Brian Peters was the WCM at BMX in 2002 and rated based on aerial survey, with little if any ground surveying due to the extreme track length. It was one of the longer paths on record in AL at the time.

View attachment 1815
View attachment 1816
View attachment 1817
View attachment 1818
View attachment 1819

I have planned on going around to the survivors of this tornado and chronicling it in extreme detail as damage photos and stories are hard to come by, most buried on now defunct web pages from the last decade. Any discussion of this event is eagerly welcomed.
That tornado damage reminds me of the recent EF4 in Linwood, Kansas but the destroyed structures are mobile homes meaning EF2 or EF3 at most if it was bolted to a foundation. Disappearance of vehicles never to be found is likely a violent tornado. There was also a high-end F4 that went through parts of Barnes County, North Dakota on July 18, 2004. It practically did F5 damage. Another crazy thing there was only 0-2% chance of tornadoes in that area.

It is not a very well known tornado either.
 

pohnpei

Member
Messages
2
Location
shanghai
Hello guys,I want to discuss some potential very strong possible violent tornado in this May outbreak sequence as I see.
I think this damage video is from 5/18 silver valley EF3 , there was some very serious car and tree damage here. I don't see much about the other two EF3 tornado damage, but ballinger tornado seems storng.

As many people have noticed, 5/19 Pleasant Farms EF3 had been rated based on pump jacks. The ground souring of this tornado is very raw for EF3 tornado. If there is a well-built house on that path, it may get a higher rating.
1821
Bern KS EF3 in May 21 also had some notable ground souring.
1822
Like the main discussion posted before, golden city EF3 had some serious damge at some point. It certainly can't get a higher rating because of the type of the house, but the tree damage beside was bad.
1823
5/23 Laverne EF3 apparently had some high-end car damage.
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5/17 Akron EF3 leveled a A two story home and badly distorted voltage transmission towers.
1825
Also we can see wolf creek/mangum/waldo tornado had some violentmotion and not hit much. Ford/Leach/Augusta had great radar performance. But I may think leach tornado in 5/20 and augusta tornado in 5/21 not that strong.
 
Messages
74
Location
Lenexa, KS
Hello guys,I want to discuss some potential very strong possible violent tornado in this May outbreak sequence as I see.
I think this damage video is from 5/18 silver valley EF3 , there was some very serious car and tree damage here. I don't see much about the other two EF3 tornado damage, but ballinger tornado seems storng.

As many people have noticed, 5/19 Pleasant Farms EF3 had been rated based on pump jacks. The ground souring of this tornado is very raw for EF3 tornado. If there is a well-built house on that path, it may get a higher rating.
View attachment 1821
Bern KS EF3 in May 21 also had some notable ground souring.
View attachment 1822
Like the main discussion posted before, golden city EF3 had some serious damge at some point. It certainly can't get a higher rating because of the type of the house, but the tree damage beside was bad.
View attachment 1823
5/23 Laverne EF3 apparently had some high-end car damage.
View attachment 1826
5/17 Akron EF3 leveled a A two story home and badly distorted voltage transmission towers.
View attachment 1825
Also we can see wolf creek/mangum/waldo tornado had some violentmotion and not hit much. Ford/Leach/Augusta had great radar performance. But I may think leach tornado in 5/20 and augusta tornado in 5/21 not that strong.
It definitely looks like some of these tornadoes could have rated EF4.
 

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