Significant Tornado Events

[speedbump305]

i will say, anchors being bent and torn out, might be normal for EF5 tornadoes. but i bet a lot of tornaodes rated EF5 have torn anchors

honestly bassfield could have easily been one of the most violent tornadoes ever surveyed if it hit more structures

 

[TH2002]

More obscure tornado videos:

Picher, OK 5/10/2008



Quinter, KS 5/23/2008



Murfreesboro, TN 4/11/2009




Mayflower-Vilonia, AR 4/27/2014

 

[buckeye05]

So can vehicles thrown long distances not be used for EF5? Also, what is the highest rating that tree damage can be assigned?
I see why they rated it the way they did, I'm just curious for details on certain factors and damage indicators and the like. Not sure how else to word that.

Tree damage can be rated no higher than 170 MPH, which is EF4. Vehicles aren't supposed to be used at all for solely determining ratings, as there is no vehicle DI in the EF scale. But they are sometimes used as contextual evidence, and sometimes survey teams will use them as DIs anyway, even though that's not technically allowed. The problem with that though, is that there is no upper or lower bound limit available for vehicles when surveyors "break the rules" and use them as DIs, because as I mentioned, they have no established guidelines.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Tree damage can be rated no higher than 170 MPH, which is EF4. Vehicles aren't supposed to be used at all for solely determining ratings, as there is no vehicle DI in the EF scale. But they are sometimes used as contextual evidence, and sometimes survey teams will use them as DIs anyway, even though that's not technically allowed. The problem with that though, is that there is no upper or lower bound limit available for vehicles when surveyors "break the rules" and use them as DIs, because as I mentioned, they have no established guidelines.

The EF scale seems a bit broken in certain areas (hopefully this doesn't sound too ignorant) especially with surveyors "breaking the rules" as you said. The past decade has had quite a bit of questionable ratings (Chickasha, Goldsby, Vilonia, Chapman 2016, etc.) and I'm wondering if there's any plans to get a new scale or at least reform the current one? Not sure how else to phrase this properly.

 

[MNTornadoGuy]

The EF scale seems a bit broken in certain areas (hopefully this doesn't sound too ignorant) especially with surveyors "breaking the rules" as you said. The past decade has had quite a bit of questionable ratings (Chickasha, Goldsby, Vilonia, Chapman 2016, etc.) and I'm wondering if there's any plans to get a new scale or at least reform the current one? Not sure how else to phrase this properly.

there is a reformation underway

 

[TH2002]

Picher seems to have widened and strengthened into maximum intensity as it was entering the small town, various pics and low quality videos shows the tornado changed from a dusty cone into a big wedge and then immediately narrowed as soon as it left the town.The tornado then maintained its cone shape through the rest of his life, which is a very rare tornadogensis case
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Maximum width
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outside town
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Some car and house damage outside town
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Some photos I have of the evolution of the Picher Tornado

Early stages

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Mature stage as it was approaching Picher

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The approaching tornado viewed from Picher

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The tornado in Picher

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Are any of those pictures screenshots from videos, and if so where can I view them?

 

[buckeye05]

i will say, anchors being bent and torn out, might be normal for EF5 tornadoes. but i bet a lot of tornaodes rated EF5 have torn anchors

This phenomenon occurred in both Elie, MB and Smithville, MS. However, I've also noticed it with the Sartinville and Bassfield, MS EF4s, the Granbury, TX EF4, and the Springfield, MA EF3 (which absolutely should have been rated EF4 based on the damage it produced in Brimfield, MA).

The EF scale seems a bit broken in certain areas (hopefully this doesn't sound too ignorant) especially with surveyors "breaking the rules" as you said. The past decade has had quite a bit of questionable ratings (Chickasha, Goldsby, Vilonia, Chapman 2016, etc.) and I'm wondering if there's any plans to get a new scale or at least reform the current one? Not sure how else to phrase this properly.

Everything I just told you may very well be rendered null here in not too long. As myself and others have mentioned, the EF scale is in the process of an overhaul. Surveyors are really starting to notice the problems, and are working to correct them.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

This phenomenon occurred in both Elie, MB and Smithville, MS. However, I've also noticed it with the Sartinville and Bassfield, MS EF4s, the Granbury, TX EF4, and the Springfield, MA EF3 (which absolutely should have been rated EF4 based on the damage it produced in Brimfield, MA).


Everything I just told you may very well be rendered null here in not too long. As myself and others have mentioned, the EF scale is in the process of an overhaul. Surveyors are really starting to notice the problems, and are working to correct them.

So, why exactly was the EF scale developed? Why did they replace the old Fujita scale? What made (in theory, at least) the EF scale better then the old F-scale?

 

[locomusic01]

So, why exactly was the EF scale developed? Why did they replace the old Fujita scale? What made (in theory, at least) the EF scale better then the old F-scale?

It's well worth reading some of the papers associated w/the EF-scale. Here's the original proposal, but there are a few others as well.

The short version is that the EF-scale was designed to do a few things: revise wind speed estimates to more realistic ranges, create a more standardized rating methodology and expand the types of damage that can be used. It did all that (with varying degrees of success), but it certainly hasn't been perfect. The good news is that the standardized framework it provides can be updated and expanded as necessary, which is what they're working on now.

At any rate, most of the problems aren't even specifically with the EF-scale so much as the way it's implemented differently by different survey teams. Some surveyors seem to take a very strict interpretation of the scale while others are far more open to coloring a little outside the lines. I think there are ways to limit that issue, but we probably can't ever eliminate it.

'Course, I think it's pretty well established that there are a lot of sketchy ratings pre-EF-scale as well, so at least we're making progress.

 

[locomusic01]

Couple others that are worth a read as well if you haven't yet:

On the implementation of the enhanced Fujita scale in the USA (Doswell et al.)

Tornado Intensity Estimation: Past, Present, and Future (Edwards et al.)

A few things of interest from the second paper:

Cars are not damage indicators (DIs) in the current Enhanced Fujita (EF) Scale because of their extreme variability in construction, mass, mass distribution, material composition, and wind resistance at various speeds and impact angles.

What can be done to improve DI representativeness? What new DIs should be added, how, and why? Work will continue to explore new potential DIs, especially for objects and structures more commonly found in rural and remote areas that can “fill in the gaps” in mapping damage paths. Such gaps do still exist, despite the presence of 28 DIs in the current EF scale. Possibilities include center-pivot irrigators (Guyer and Moritz 2003), farm implements, grain bins and silos, rail cars, common oilfield equipment such as pumpjacks, and nonfarm vehicles. Additionally, engineering and botanical studies will continue to reveal insights that could compel revision of wind estimates for existing DIs or even blending of DIs (e.g., hardwood and softwood trees, as discussed above) for which the current distinctions might not be justifiable.

 

[MNTornadoGuy]

I was surprised by the EF4 rating for the Newnan GA tornado. It looks like the EF4-rated homes were not well-anchored and just slid off their foundations and collapsed.

 

[Marshal79344]

That newspaper clipping from 20 April 1920 is remarkable. Apparently the New Deemer F4 dug half-foot-deep “trenches” and hurled mature trees tens of yards (more?), just like the Philadelphia EF5 in ‘11. It also swept homesites clean of sizeable debris. According to Thomas P. Grazulis’ description in Significant Tornadoes, that tornado bisected Neshoba County and tracked along the southernmost edge of Philadelphia, whereas the EF5 of 27 April 2011 developed on the northern outskirts of Philadelphia, but otherwise both tornadoes’ paths roughly paralleled each other’s. In every other respect these events appear to be possible clones, based on forensic evidence, including extensive debarking of trees. The Waco and Brownsboro F4s in Alabama on the same date, along with the Meridian F4 in MS, also produced extreme damage to mature oaks and pines. Detailed descriptions of damage from the 1932 outbreak are more sparse than in 1920, but personally, I am willing to bet that both 20 April 1920 and 21 March 1932 each featured at least one (E)F5.

Regarding 21 March 1952: once again, the official records seem to be largely incorrect. The conditions on that date were supportive of multiple long-trackers, and several of the “brief” tornadoes belonged to the same family, so I suspect that several of the short-tracked spin-ups on that date were actually the same tornado. For example, the tornadoes at England, Tollville, and Cotton Plant are listed separately in the official database, as are the tornadoes at Hickory Plains, Georgetown, and Hickory Ridge, but Significant Tornadoes links each of these, respectively, to singular, long-lived F4s, each with path lengths of sixty-five to seventy miles. The first long-tracker struck the northwest side of England, passed near Tollville and Hazen, devastated the outskirts of Cotton Plant, and then struck Hillemann before dissipating, though it may have continued even farther. The second long-tracker touched down near Wattensaw and tracked through Hickory Plains, Georgetown, McCrory, and Hickory Ridge before dissipating near Fisher. Several of the brief touchdowns in MO and TN are also listed as long-tracking F2+ tornadoes in Significant Tornadoes.

Sayler Park actually appears to be more intense than I recalled: some trees in the image (upper left) appear to have been totally debarked.

For the Plains, I would also consider 27 April 1912, 5 May 1960, 20 May 1949, 13 March 1990, 26 April 1991, 3 May 1999, and 24 May 2011 to be local “Super Outbreaks.”

Where on earth is your source for this?

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Where on earth is your source for this?
View attachment 8232

Perhaps the quote about the earth being "moved six to eight inches" deep in places" he has inferred as to be a reference to Philadelphia-style scouring. While the 1920's tornado did go through Neshoba County, MS and might have followed a similar path to Philadelphia I'm not sure about the rest of his claims.

 

[manofthenaders23]

It hasn't been mentioned yet but March 1948, like March 2021, was a pretty violent month. It's remembered mostly for the Tinker AFB F3 tornadoes on the 20th and 25th, the latter of which was successfully forecast by meteorologists, effectively signaling the dawn of modern tornado forecasting and prediction. For their scientific significance, these are the tornadoes most associated with the year 1948. The most violent tornado of the year, however, touched down slightly SW of the town of Alton, IL, only a few miles from the Mississippi River. Just before 7 in the morning, the tornado tore a path through the towns of Alton, Fosterburg, Bunker Hill, and Gillespie. Thirty three people lost their lives, with Bunker Hill(19) and Fosterburg(9) absorbing the brunt of the tragedy. Violent tornado damage was recorded all along the path, but the tornado appears to have reached maximum intensity in Fosterburg or, as is often the case, in the largely rural areas outside of the town. Fairly large homes(dubious construction) were obliterated, with debris being wind-rowed and finely granulated. Vegetation damage was also impressive as large, mature trees were at least partially debarked and reduced to stumps. In addition, vehicles were thrown great distances and mangled beyond recognition. The damage in Bunker Hill was solidly EF4 level but not quite as intense as in Fosterburg. It doesn't receive a lot of attention but in all likelihood it was the most violent tornado of 1948(Unless I'm forgetting) and likely would be classed as a high-end EF4 today. Anyways, some pictures from the path.
Vehicle damage in Fosterburg

Possible ground scouring


Note the vehicle from the first photo to the right

And some aerial shots of Fosterburg



From Bunker Hill

 

[speedbump305]

Does anyone know if bassfield
produced extreme ground scouring?

 

[pohnpei]

We know that there used be a plan called Project Stormfury in an attempt to weaken tropical cyclones by flying aircraft into them and seeding with silver iodide. Similar things happened for a tornadoe in China.
This was originally a hail suppression activity with artillery in Liaoning Province, but during the operation, it was found that a tornado formed in the east direction of the artillery's location . After the tornado touch down(they were not entirely sure), the troops immediately turned the muzzle to bombard the tornado with more than 40 shells, making the tornado cloud column loose and finally dissipated.（At least that's what's recorded in this archives below） It's hard to tell how much effect did these shelling have on tornado's dissipation and I think that It is very unrealistic to do such experiment again in the future. It is more likely that tornadoes will throw these shells and cause more casualties.

 

[pohnpei]

Does anyone know if bassfield
produced extreme ground scouring?

I think there were scouring, but not extreme scouring.

 

[speedbump305]

I think there were scouring, but not extreme scouring.

honestly, i don’t think there is such a thing as extreme ground scouring, because ground scouring is already an indication of an extreme tornado. and the only tornadoes that i know have produced extreme ground scouring are the trench diggers and jarrell. i’m sure there’s a lot more, but we do need to remember ground scouring is already intense

 

[pohnpei]

honestly, i don’t think there is such a thing as extreme ground scouring, because ground scouring is already an indication of an extreme tornado. and the only tornadoes that i know have produced extreme ground scouring are the trench diggers and jarrell. i’m sure there’s a lot more, but we do need to remember ground scouring is already intense

What I mean was that there was not scouring like Philadelphia level. But overall I think scoruing maybe more variable than other DI and real grass scouring in Dixie was already rare indeed.

 

[speedbump305]

What I mean was that there was not scouring like Philadelphia level. But overall I think scoruing maybe more variable than other DI and real grass scouring in Dixie was already rare indeed.

oh yeah for sure, but there was obviously extreme ground scouring