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Enhanced Fujita Ratings Debate Thread

Alright, that gives me some reasons to lay back a bit on it deserving EF5 for sure based on that. Not as strong of an advocate as I was, well appreciated! I think you can make an argument but there may be too much variables in Enid's case. Would you say Enid has stronger basis than Enderlin given the math?
There is definitely a stronger basis solely because more than one method of wind measurement was used, but then again I’ve been able to point out issues with two of the methods used already and it’s been like a day so I really don’t know. I do want to see a more in-depth treefall study done though; if Enid was EF5 anywhere it was almost certainly over that treeline.
 
Alright, that gives me some reasons to lay back a bit on it deserving EF5 for sure based on that. Not as strong of an advocate as I was, well appreciated! I think you can make an argument but there may be too much variables in Enid's case. Would you say Enid has stronger basis than Enderlin given the math?
There is definitely a stronger basis solely because more than one method of wind measurement was used, but then again I’ve been able to point out issues with two of the methods used already and it’s been like a day so I really don’t know. I do want to see a more in-depth treefall study done though; if Enid was EF5 anywhere it was almost certainly over that treeline.
 
There is definitely a stronger basis solely because more than one method of wind measurement was used, but then again I’ve been able to point out issues with two of the methods used already and it’s been like a day so I really don’t know. I do want to see a more in-depth treefall study done though; if Enid was EF5 anywhere it was almost certainly over that treeline.
I just noticed who you are lmao, your user change threw me off. Yeah, i agree. I don't see the need main basis for EF5 solely on that RV, but i see it on that treeline. Enid had very strong contextual evidence for EF5.

Also heads u your message duplicated
 
In my mind, Enderlin's calculations put it far enough above the EF5 threshold (even enough to register as a 5 on the original F scale) to ensure confidence that it reached over the 200 mark, even if perhaps the 260 estimate is overdone.
I didn't believe the 265 at all. People misinterpret Enderlin still, their most confident calculation was in the 220-230 range so if those calculations are to be taken face first, it's similar to the Enid math too. They're really not that far apart in nature, but as @Eoline mentions, Enderlin had a lot of assumptions to the extent of math I just learned about
 
I just noticed who you are lmao, your user change threw me off. Yeah, i agree. I don't see the need main basis for EF5 solely on that RV, but i see it on that treeline. Enid had very strong contextual evidence for EF5.

Also heads u your message duplicated
I forgot to mention that lol, yea
 
"We hold these truths to be very highly likely, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness..."

- Thomas Jefferson
 
In my mind, Enderlin's calculations put it far enough above the EF5 threshold (even enough to register as a 5 on the original F scale) to ensure confidence that it reached over the 200 mark, even if perhaps the 260 estimate is overdone.
This is precisely why, in spite of there being some oversimplifications that do likely exaggerate the final numbers' magnitudes, that Enderlin is still solidly EF5. You could have some factor not being taken into account that would reduce the windspeed by 10% (which is a very significant disparity) - but 10% of ~230+ mph does not take it below the threshold. You can run thousands of Monte Carlo simulations on the thrown object in Enderlin's case, and I would be mindblown if the number of runs yielding sub-EF5 intensity fell within three standard deviations (or sigma values - for reference, three sigmas is within 99.7%). In fact, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if literally zero model runs displayed sub-EF5 level winds moving that object in that manner.

Enid, on the other hand, displayed not only a much lower median windspeed value, but given the range of values on the median, absolutely had multiple runs that yielded sub-EF5 intensity in its modeling and calculations, and likely more than enough runs to exceed a threshold defined by the sigma values. If this is the reason why they held back granting Enid an EF5 rating, this is entirely reasonable, from both a physical and statistical standpoint.

Big reminder though, I am discussing things that I am completely assuming based on my knowledge as to how decisions are made in academia. If this really isn't the reason why they kept Enid from receiving the EF5 rating, then I'm quite frankly a little dumbfounded on the decision to maintain EF4 for it, given the supporting data and evidence.

EDIT: This is also not me saying Enid was an EF4 strength tornado, I'm certain it reached EF5 intensity. The issue is you need the data to statistically speak for itself.
 
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This is precisely why, in spite of there being some oversimplifications that do likely exaggerate the final numbers' magnitudes, that Enderlin is still solidly EF5. You could have some factor not being taken into account that would reduce the windspeed by 10% (which is a very significant disparity) - but 10% of ~230+ mph does not take it below the threshold. You can run thousands of Monte Carlo simulations on the thrown object in Enderlin's case, and I would be mindblown if the number of runs yielding sub-EF5 intensity fell within three standard deviations (or sigma values). In fact, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if literally zero model runs displayed sub-EF5 level winds moving that object in that manner.

Enid, on the other hand, displayed not only a much lower median windspeed value, but given the range of values on the median, absolutely had multiple runs that yielded sub-EF5 intensity in its modeling and calculations, and likely more than enough runs to exceed a threshold defined by the sigma values. If this is the reason why they held back granting Enid an EF5 rating, this is entirely reasonable, from both a physical and statistical standpoint.

Big reminder though, I am discussing things that I am completely assuming based on my knowledge as to how decisions are made in academia. If this really isn't the reason why they kept Enid from receiving the EF5 rating, then I'm quite frankly a little dumbfounded on the decision to maintain EF4 for it, given the supporting data and evidence.
Agree. It's just wrong to say that Enderlin wasn't a EF5. The environment solidly correlates with a high end environment of a EF4-EF5. Sandpapered trees, the train itself. I don't think it peaked around 260 mph, but do think it was in a 210-230 range at mininum. As for Enid, i am a bit more hesitantly now and can understand the partial reasoning, maybe why not. I still think though it may deserve it
 
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