AJS
Member
One of the things I find most impressive about the 190 MPH house and the surrounding area is how little debris was recovered. The house was absolutely decimated.
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AJS
Member
Never ceases to stun me.
Ozonelayer
Member
That bottom image might be one of the most impressive images of tornado damage ive ever seen, regardless of home construction.
Yeah that home, while it had some unorthodox construction methods, is in my eyes fully deserving of am EF-5 rating.
From what I understand it was a odd mix of poured concrete and CMU, with the foundation sitting on gravel (said foundation was then tossed 1000+ yards downstream). Considering there was essentially 0 trace of the home and given it being stated by NWS Paducah as "an amazingly strong home", there really doesn't seem like there is much reason it shouldn't have been rated EF-5, even if low end (I personally think 205-210 for the home is just fine.).
Union
Member
Yes there were 2/3 trees completely debarked but they're around EF3/4 damage and no other trees around them are debarked at all I feel like it could've just been a problem with those trees specifically
AJS
Member
That’s still some impressive tree damage to be honest.
Ozonelayer
Member
To add on to this, in some areas of the path, there were some brief areas of widespread partial debarking. While this could be due to disease, there was atleast minor debarking to trees throughout the path, especially in the land between the lakes. Vehicle damage, especially in southwest Mayfield and near the university, was some of the worst in recent memory. It lofted heavy objects (such as the 1000 gallon propane tank and the tractor trailer.) aswell.
The debris granulation though is in a league of its own. Personally I find it as one of its strongest contextual damage points. The images @AJS posted does show windrowed streaks of what appears to be granulated debris on extensive, heavy scouring with homes being completely wiped from their foundations. Obvious indicators of a violent tornado.
In terms of actual EF-5 structual damage, I think the 190 MPH home is our safest bet and likely should have been rated EF-5, with the church in Mayfield being a plausible candidate for EF-5 aswell. I will concede that no other structures to my knowledge were worthy of anything higher than EF-4.
AJS
Member
The trees in the area with all of the heavy scouring/granulation/wind rowing do seem to have suffered minor to partial debarking.
We’ve also seen a tornado such as Rochelle, which produced very intense scouring/rowing/granulation not produce many instances of debarking.
The bottom image is what has always convinced me. Even with the stricter standards of more recent times, only EF5 intensity tornadoes do that. Bremen and Vilonia are probably what I find personally most impressive since 2013.
WeathermanLeprechaun
Member
It's pretty much these two that I think deserve it. Initially, it was just Vilonia but this new standard really changes what is a EF5 indicator, and so going by that, Bremen is the only area where things meet the rules. It was just absolutely violent around that point, and that house was VERY well constructed too so despite the rather unorthodox methods used, it still meets criteria pretty nicely
Union
Member
All this is correct, except the university you speak of I assume is actually the UofK research facility instead of a campus building, which it is kinda weird how It was just in the middle of nowhere, and I really do think the First Presbyterian Church is a good enough indicator for EF5 damage to be confident in saying so, most everything points to it being of that caliber.
Union
Member
I also think Chapman deserves a mention in terms of strength
Also in Dawson Springs the tornado quite suddenly intensified as it crossed the eastern side of town producing relatively extreme damage,
Higher end of vegetation damage, with some debarking and rootballing. This is probably a bit easier in a densely populated area though.
There was a small industrial district right on the edge of town. Multiple larger buildings were destroyed here.
Debris was once again granulated and wind rowed, and trees were mangled - as was common with this tornado throughout the track.
The NWS used 2 EF4 DIs in the town, the highest being 180mph, however you can see on DAT they missed numerous structures.
If you watch the aerial damage videos there are so many slabs where homes are almost completely covered in debris from other structures to the point they aren't visible. I don't find it impossible to think there may have been one home perhaps well built enough for an EF5 rating that was not surveyed, but there was also plenty of very subpar construction used. It's just one of those things where I think we will never know.
Also in my personal opinion, when tornadoes move through densely populated areas, especially quickly - the pure abundance of debris makes it harder to achieve the granulated, wind rowed, slab swept clean look so the tornado looks less intense (similar occurred in Rolling Fork and Greenfield). That's partly what makes tornadoes like Moore and Smithville (you could even argue Washington, IL) so extremely impressive when they completely swept clean almost all debris in the areas they impacted.
Higher end of vegetation damage, with some debarking and rootballing. This is probably a bit easier in a densely populated area though.
There was a small industrial district right on the edge of town. Multiple larger buildings were destroyed here.
Debris was once again granulated and wind rowed, and trees were mangled - as was common with this tornado throughout the track.
The NWS used 2 EF4 DIs in the town, the highest being 180mph, however you can see on DAT they missed numerous structures.
If you watch the aerial damage videos there are so many slabs where homes are almost completely covered in debris from other structures to the point they aren't visible. I don't find it impossible to think there may have been one home perhaps well built enough for an EF5 rating that was not surveyed, but there was also plenty of very subpar construction used. It's just one of those things where I think we will never know.
Also in my personal opinion, when tornadoes move through densely populated areas, especially quickly - the pure abundance of debris makes it harder to achieve the granulated, wind rowed, slab swept clean look so the tornado looks less intense (similar occurred in Rolling Fork and Greenfield). That's partly what makes tornadoes like Moore and Smithville (you could even argue Washington, IL) so extremely impressive when they completely swept clean almost all debris in the areas they impacted.
AJS
Member
Yeah, the damage in Dawson Springs doesn’t get brought up a lot due to the pretty poor construction, but the complete destruction along with some intense contextual damage is truly astounding to see. I still can’t believe this tornado for the majority of its track was producing high end damage.
tornado examiner
Member
Potentially another way to determine a tornadoes possible peak intensity should it hit basically nothing.
tornado examiner
Member
It seems as though alot of people are putting in large amounts of effort to research ways of assessing tornado intensity outside of structural quality.
Lake Martin EF4
Member
IIRC the main reason this wasn't EF5 was because...wait for it...there were still trees standing near it. You know, like at East Wicker Street back in Vilonia 2014? Yeah.
Downtown Mayfield, Cayce (where the trenching happened), Cambridge Shores, Dawson Springs, Bremen, Princeton, etc. So many places with maximum damage, but no maximum rating. When you look at the full picture it becomes very clear it's the scale and surveying that was wrong rather than the buildings themselves.
Since there's currently so much interest, here's detailed 4K aerial surveys of the entire tornado path, in chronological order. This Youtube channel did an incredible job covering everything.
Entire Path
Cayce (Ground Trenching)
Downtown Mayfield
Cambridge Shores
Princeton (including the UK building)
Dawson Springs
12-11-2021 Dawson Springs, Ky destroyed by massive tornado- drone
For licensing inquiries please email [email protected] historic tornado on 12-10-2021 produced extreme damage destroying a huge section of town. Shot...
www.youtube.com
Bremen
Bremen, Ky Horrific tornado damage- 4k- December 2021
Bremen, Ky was one of the hardest hit communities after a long track violent tornado ripped through the north side of town. It destroyed more than 100 struct...
www.youtube.com
Lake Martin EF4
Member
It's not just Vilonia and Mayfield. There's a ton more. So much more. Listing just from structural damage alone:
Louisville the day after Vilonia
Pilger family later that year (at least 3 EF5 candidates)
Rochelle 2015
Holly Springs 2015 (New Wren reborn)
Chapman 2016 (rock solid EF5 DI)
Canton 2017 (maybe?)
Camp Crook 2018
Bassfield 2020 (Evidence seems to be piling up for an EF5 at the cabin)
Rolling Fork 2023 (Likely EF5 at Family Dollar)
Not even including likely contextual EF5s like Cisco, Monette or Matador.
So, yea
Union
Member
Downtown Mayfield, Cayce (where the trenching happened), Cambridge Shores, Dawson Springs, Bremen, Princeton, etc. So many places with maximum damage, but no maximum rating. When you look at the full picture it becomes very clear it's the scale and surveying that was wrong rather than the buildings themselves.
Since there's currently so much interest, here's detailed 4K aerial surveys of the entire tornado path, in chronological order. This Youtube channel did an incredible job covering everything.
Entire Path
Cayce (Ground Trenching)
Downtown Mayfield
Cambridge Shores
Princeton (including the UK building)
Dawson Springs
12-11-2021 Dawson Springs, Ky destroyed by massive tornado- drone
For licensing inquiries please email [email protected] historic tornado on 12-10-2021 produced extreme damage destroying a huge section of town. Shot...
Bremen
Bremen, Ky Horrific tornado damage- 4k- December 2021
Bremen, Ky was one of the hardest hit communities after a long track violent tornado ripped through the north side of town. It destroyed more than 100 struct...
Pretty wild stuff while it was traversing the distance between Cayce and Mayfield
Here’s a more formal thread on the calculation of wind speeds near the surface in tornadoes from cycloidal markings/scattering in fields. Seems to certainly have some promise.
Evaluating the Viability of Surface Marks to Estimate Tornado Winds in Rural Areas
Tornadoes cause significant damage, injuries and fatalities worldwide. Tornado-based design for structures was introduced in ASCE 7-22, and design for tornado loading will continue to become more common in tornado prone regions and for certain structures in the United States. One parameter used...
ui.adsabs.harvard.edu
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