Enhanced Fujita Ratings Debate Thread

[Western_KS_Wx]

I honestly do not get the Plevna hype at all. The worst damage I saw from it was some average stubbed and partially debarked trees, that people were labeling “EF4 to EF5 type tree damage” for no apparent reason. I don’t recall any truly extreme tree debarking, grass scouring, debarking of shrubs, or any real “extremely violent tornado in a rural area” contextual indicators from Plevna. In terms of tree damage, this pic below was about the worst I saw from Plevna. Debarking can and often does get much more intense than this:
View attachment 54922

Unless there’s some incredible damage I am not aware of, I really think people online saw a loud, scary, Greensburg-like nighttime wedge and extrapolated conclusions about that tornado’s intensity that aren’t actually supported by the damage it left behind. The other issue is people not knowing what they are looking at. The photo below got labeled on social media as “ground scouring” caused by Plevna, when I really don’t think that’s the case. This pic more likely just show some mud puddles or dirt patches in a field that may very well have been there prior to the tornado. Notice how it more follows the tree shelter belt rather than any kind of contoured damage path? The online tornado community has a bad habit of assuming that every little discolored patch of ground in a damage pic is automatically “ground scouring”.
View attachment 54921

Matador on the other hand produced truly extreme grass scouring, which had a very clear contour and path. I think even if Matador only hit trees and grassy fields at peak intensity like Plevna, we would still see that insane high-end vegetation damage that made Matador stand out. These were two completely different calibers of tornado in my opinion.

I remember once the damage photos started rolling in I was borderline puzzled at the lack of any true “violent” looking damage indicators. I think early on in its life, around where this satellite image was taken, there was some higher-end tree/vegetation damage that could’ve hinted at EF4 intensity, but nothing higher than that.


Both the Haviland and Iuka EF3’s seemed to produce more intense tree damage and high-end cycloidal markings than Plevna, despite being less impressive on radar. I’d argue Grinnell and maybe even the Elkader EF2 could’ve reached greater intensities than Plevna based on contextual damage.

 

[eep]

On a side-note, some Canton 2017 stuff I found in a UAS study:
View attachment 54928
Quite intense; for a bit I'm probably just going to post rarer images as I do some research for my senior project and leave out my own personal estimates.

Ironically it's always seemed like the first Canton tornado was the much stronger one in comparison to the murky wedge that followed. Albeit I am assuming this is Canton 1. Honestly, in kind of a similar way to Capitol MT, it does rub me as an EF5 candidate. Especially what it did to the dealership.

I honestly do not get the Plevna hype at all. The worst damage I saw from it was some average stubbed and partially debarked trees, that people were labeling “EF4 to EF5 type tree damage” for no apparent reason. I don’t recall any truly extreme tree debarking, grass scouring, debarking of shrubs, or any real “extremely violent tornado in a rural area” contextual indicators from Plevna. In terms of tree damage, this pic below was about the worst I saw from Plevna. Debarking can and often does get much more intense than this:
View attachment 54922

Unless there’s some incredible damage I am not aware of, I really think people online saw a loud, scary, Greensburg-like nighttime wedge and extrapolated conclusions about that tornado’s intensity that aren’t actually supported by the damage it left behind. The other issue is people not knowing what they are looking at. The photo below got labeled on social media as “ground scouring” caused by Plevna, when I really don’t think that’s the case. This pic more likely just show some mud puddles or dirt patches in a field that may very well have been there prior to the tornado. Notice how it more follows the tree shelter belt rather than any kind of contoured damage path? The online tornado community has a bad habit of assuming that every little discolored patch of ground in a damage pic is automatically “ground scouring”.
View attachment 54921

Matador on the other hand produced truly extreme grass scouring, which had a very clear contour and path. I think even if Matador only hit trees and grassy fields at peak intensity like Plevna, we would still see that insane high-end vegetation damage that made Matador stand out. These were two completely different calibers of tornado in my opinion.

I think it's safe to say that Plevna was the weakest of the 25 Greensburg family (even if it was one of the larger ones). The other tornadoes however seemed like they could have contained actual EF4+ intensity.

 

[buckeye05]

Wasn’t it revealed that Canton’s #1s survey was pretty half hearted? I swear it was later revealed that there were multiple large homes that were completely leveled in EF4 candidate fashion, but were never surveyed.

 

[eep]

Does anyone have that really impressively constructed stone house that survived one of the 25 Greensburg family tornadoes? That one and the Etna 2011 house are quite interesting to me.

 

[Western_KS_Wx]

Wasn’t it revealed that Canton’s #1s survey was pretty half hearted? I swear it was later revealed that there were multiple large homes that were completely leveled in EF4 candidate fashion, but were never surveyed.

Canton #1 was the one actually rated EF4 I thought?

But yeah, the one rated EF3 I do remember seeing a post a while back that showed multiple destroyed structures that were unsurveyed along with some high-end contextual damage suggestive of EF4+ intensity.

There’s also Google Earth imagery from the event that shows that it was likely violent.

 

[buckeye05]

Canton #1 was the one actually rated EF4 I thought?

But yeah, the one rated EF3 I do remember seeing a post a while back that showed multiple destroyed structures that were unsurveyed along with some high-end contextual damage suggestive of EF4+ intensity.

There’s also Google Earth imagery from the event that shows that it was likely violent.

I think I might be confused about which one is #1 and #2. In any case, I’m referring to the one that was rated EF3 though and hit the dealership.