Enhanced Fujita Ratings Debate Thread

[Lake Martin EF4]

Regarding Ringgold, thanks for digging up proof the concrete slab home was indeed anchored. My stance has changed from “Ringgold should have been rated EF5” to “Ringgold WAS an EF5”.

Quick question: was this the home you referred to in your previous Ringgold post?

Ringgold: I don't think any genuine EF5 structural damage occurred in Georgia except for maybe one home I haven't been able to find ground level views of. I do think it meets the structural and contextual criteria for EF5 (by 2011 standards at least) in Tennessee though.

 

[TH2002]

Quick question: was this the home you referred to in your previous Ringgold post?

Yup. Same home on Cherokee Valley Road.

 

[Lake Martin EF4]

Yup. Same home on Cherokee Valley Road.

Wow....so looks like we have the (at least 2011 era) EF5 criteria met in both Georgia and Tennessee.

Looks like the Vilonia Club gets a new member.

 

[Aaron Rider]

You can link them or put them in a Google site via a screenshot or something; this forum regularly shows copyrighted images in discussions (unless the wording says they are explicitly not allowed anywhere, then ofc dont do that)

And I want to note that our purpose here with all images is discussion, not profit

 

[Central Ohio Wx]

How do we feel about Henryville 2012? The backhoe being deposited into a basement and a truck never being located impress me, but chunks of asphalt being peeled off a road is something else entirely.

 

[slenker]

How do we feel about Henryville 2012? The backhoe being deposited into a basement and a truck never being located impress me, but chunks of asphalt being peeled off a road is something else entirely.

Personally, going by the scale, I think 175 mph EF4 is okay. It could have reached EF5 intensity at some point, but probably only briefly, I imagine. The extreme damage listed here is something that I believe could be achieved by a high end EF4.

 

[ColdFront]

Yup. Same home on Cherokee Valley Road.

FFC was where violent tornados went to die for so long. Not shocked they may have botched Ringgold.

I think another mind blowing fact to me is you have a single supercell that you could plausibly argue dropped 3 continuous EF5 tornados on 4/27/11. Cordova, Rainsville, and then Ringgold. Not sure if you would include Philadelphia since the original
Parent cell of that EF5 underwent a pretty significant merger before it dropped Cordova.

Just an aside, is anyone getting pop ups on talkweather today on mobile? Like spam pop ups?

 

[Central Ohio Wx]

FFC was where violent tornados went to die for so long. Not shocked they may have botched Ringgold.

I think another mind blowing fact to me is you have a single supercell that you could plausibly argue dropped 3 continuous EF5 tornados on 4/27/11. Cordova, Rainsville, and then Ringgold. Not sure if you would include Philadelphia since the original
Parent cell of that EF5 underwent a pretty significant merger before it dropped Cordova.

Just an aside, is anyone getting pop ups on talkweather today on mobile? Like spam pop ups?

Yes!! Was wondering what was happening, too

 

[Grand Poo Bah]

Sorry, I think there’s a little confusion here. The photo I said was a garage was the one labeled “A swept away home in Izard County” from the VLT Arkansas EF4. The photos you posted are from Barnesville, which are correctly labeled as showing a house.

Oops yeah my bad. got mixed up. You're referring to this house, right? Tornado Talk had it labeled as a home, but they're also human and could've made a mistake.

Sunny Side EF3: I admittedly can’t be 100% sure, but from the aerial it honestly looks like a poorly constructed home that just collapsed with debris sliding downhill. EF3 looks appropriate.

Your analysis is fair, but a big difference between the F scale and EF scale is when homes are completely blown down the F scale classifies the tornado as violent. Even weak homes. This can be explained by the logarithmic nature of the F scale. F4-F5 is a huge range of wind speeds (54 mph). The range covers all construction types, while also maintaining consistency by classifying violent damage with a violent rating. Like I've said, my goal with this exercise is consistency, not perfection.

But regarding Pine Log, the F scale graphs you posted literally prove it would not be rated F5. Poorly anchored homes = weak framehouse = F4. Pretty straightforward. Though that does mean it probably would have been rated F4 back in the day. And a case for a low end EF4 can be made.

This is a completely valid take. It honestly could go either way. What swayed me to F5 was the impressive debarking and uprooted shrubs. I've been doing landscaping and have had to remove some shrubs from people's gardens. It's insane how much work it is. They're insanely flexible and the tap roots go extremely deep. They're impossible to pull out without digging deep around the roots. The idea of wind ripping multiple out of the ground (with such small surface area to work with) is mind blowing to me.



Here's another picture that swayed me. A large concrete staircase that was moved.



Ultimately I'm fine classifying Pine Log as an F4. The important part is giving it a violent classification. I think the underrating of "violent" tornadoes as "strong" might arguably be more consequential than underrating F5s to F4s. It's definitely a much more prevalent issue in terms of quantity. I'd really like to be able to update this graph with corrected ratings and see what it looks like. I'm dying to know what the recent trend of violent tornadoes actually is.