Enhanced Fujita Ratings Debate Thread

[slenker]

2. Who's saying (Flat Rock-)Trenton was one of the strongest of the outbreak? It's borderline EF5, yes, but all of the official EF5s minus Philadelphia, and even some of the EF4s and New Wren, stomp it into the ground.

I’ve been under the impression that Flat Rock was a more hotly debated EF5 rating than even Tuscaloosa was, at least amongst the surveyors themselves. I heard it did some absolutely extraordinary tree damage, though admittedly I don’t think I’ve seen that many images of the damage, so I can’t really say that with confidence.

I tend to be more of the opinion that many intense tornadoes from that day likely reached similar intensities. Since Flat Rock was riding along the boundary, I think it makes sense that it was one of the top ones. But again, I can’t say that with confidence myself.

 

[Central Ohio Wx]

I’ve been under the impression that Flat Rock was a more hotly debated EF5 rating than even Tuscaloosa was, at least amongst the surveyors themselves. I heard it did some absolutely extraordinary tree damage, though admittedly I don’t think I’ve seen that many images of the damage, so I can’t really say that with confidence.

I tend to be more of the opinion that many intense tornadoes from that day likely reached similar intensities. Since Flat Rock was riding along the boundary, I think it makes sense that it was one of the top ones. But again, I can’t say that with confidence myself.

Yes, Flat Rock was incredibly violent when it comes to tree and structure damage (allegedly), although there aren’t any easily-findable images. Some surveyor on TornadoTalk directly gave the tornado an EF5 rating, although idk who that was or the circumstances of it

 

[Central Ohio Wx]

SPC specifically described a home being “exploded” by the Flat Rock tornado, although I can’t find a direct link for that quote. Was also deemed an “EF5 candidate” in the Lyza study, although Cullman is also listed so it’s not too impressive that the tornado is on there.

 

[Grand Poo Bah]

The flat rock article on Tornado Talk is extremely long with tons of exclusive pictures. It basically eviscerated everything in its path, including trees and soil. Super impressive stuff. I'll post more tornadoes tomorrow. The restrictions on sharing photos from Tornado Talk are annoying and a real ethical dilemna. Plus I used my talk weather username for my name on there. Not the brightest move lol.

 

[Central Ohio Wx]

The flat rock article on Tornado Talk is extremely long with tons of exclusive pictures. It basically eviscerated everything in its path, including trees and soil. Super impressive stuff. I'll post more tornadoes tomorrow. The restrictions on sharing photos from Tornado Talk are annoying and a real ethical dilemna. Plus I used my talk weather username for my name on there. Not the brightest move lol.

You can link them or put them in a Google site via a screenshot or something; this forum regularly shows copyrighted images in discussions (unless the wording says they are explicitly not allowed anywhere, then ofc dont do that)

 

[TH2002]

Have quite a few posts to catch up on here... so let me take em one by one.

On another note, @TH2002, do you have any thoughts on the aforementioned Flat Rock-Trenton home that NWS gave a 4 to?

Regarding Flat Rock... this is the alleged "EF5" home in question. Absolutely nothing sets this above EF4. Walls nailed into the top of the subfloor, which remained bolted to its block foundation. Honestly, some WFO's would have given this damage an EF3 rating, and I honestly think this is another case of a surveyor mistaking a subfloor for a poured slab. EF4 is fine.

PHOTO: Chris Darden/NWS Huntsville

@Grand Poo Bah... Good to know r/EF5 is a satire subreddit lol. Still, we live in a society where the line between satire and what people actually believe has been blurred, so it had me for just a sec.
Also, photo #5 in your Van Buren post is actually a garage. Photo #3 was indeed a well anchored home though.
Regarding the Pine Log, GA EF3... I think you could credibly argue for low-end EF4 but again, there is absolutely nothing to suggest EF5. The home in photo #2 was poorly anchored with cut nails, and the home in the Dana Way video was detached from its subfloor.

 

[Grand Poo Bah]

Have quite a few posts to catch up on here... so let me take em one by one.


Regarding Flat Rock... this is the alleged "EF5" home in question. Absolutely nothing sets this above EF4. Walls nailed into the top of the subfloor, which remained bolted to its block foundation. Honestly, some WFO's would have given this damage an EF3 rating, and I honestly think this is another case of a surveyor mistaking a subfloor for a poured slab. EF4 is fine.

PHOTO: Chris Darden/NWS Huntsville

@Grand Poo Bah... Good to know r/EF5 is a satire subreddit lol. Still, we live in a society where the line between satire and what people actually believe has been blurred, so it had me for just a sec.
Also, photo #5 in your Van Buren post is actually a garage. Photo #3 was indeed a well anchored home though.
Regarding the Pine Log, GA EF3... I think you could credibly argue for low-end EF4 but again, there is absolutely nothing to suggest EF5. The home in photo #2 was poorly anchored with cut nails, and the home in the Dana Way video was detached from its subfloor.

Nope, photo #5 is for sure the house I described. Here's more pics.



Also here's an especially intriguing photo from the home built to hurricane specs. Hurricane clips.



In regards to Pine Log, I'm using F scale criteria to redo the ratings to keep them consistent with the last 50 years, so in that context it was for sure an F5. The severe debarking and clean foundations place it firmly in that category. The F scale doesn't uses the words foundation, instead of slab, so there's less confusion about whether it has to be concrete or subfloor. Using the strict EF scale standards kind of defeats the purpose of what I'm doing, right? I'm basically trying to figure out how many violent tornadoes we've actually had if we stay true to the rating trends of the last 100 years, not the last 10 or 20.