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COVID-19 detected in United States (7 Viewers)

ARCC

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Mmm that's more or less how the rapid antigen tests are supposed to function. You test positive when you're contagious. Not when symptoms begin. You test negative when you're no longer contagious even they you might still be symptomatic.

Check out Michael Mina on Twitter as he has thousands of tweets on exactly how the tests should function.
That is what I read as well, but if the window is this small going out to get tested is really useless to determine who has be exposed especially with Omicron. Just kind of odd IMO.
 

Jacob

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That is what I read as well, but if the window is this small going out to get tested is really useless to determine who has be exposed especially with Omicron. Just kind of odd IMO.

It certainly makes them less useful than we all wish they were. One big reason being people don't have access to test frequently with them. Most people if they test negative aren't going to check again/wouldn't be able to check again in 12, 24, 36 hours, etc.
 

KoD

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The accuracy of the quick antigen tests are a head scratcher. After two years we have covid officially in our home although I have little doubt it’s been here before. But as far as tests go, it’s very interesting and I’m not sure if the antigen tests are really doing much. My coworker got sick, tested negative then tested positive a couple days later. Our manager’s wife who is a nurse got a little sick, tested negative and then positive a couple days later. My wife had flu symptoms on Monday and then chest congestion for the past two days; tested negative today. My son had a fever today and didn’t feel good, tested positive today. Lastly one of my twins has the same symptoms as my son and she tested negative.

It almost seems like the time range to actually get a positive result is very small sometimes yet my coworkers sister had covid for three days and finally tested negative after three tests and like two weeks after symptoms were gone.
I whole lot of that boils down to timing and technique. If you're swabbed during the viremic phase of the Illness when you're most symptomatic and most contagious then the antigen test is very accurate. If you test early or late after this phase it is substantially less sensitive than a PCR test.
This is all assuming you've had an actual good swab performed. The correct swabbing location of the anterior nares, middle turbinate (not many swab here) and deep nasopharyngeal -- the epithelial tissue should be extremely sensitive and cause an intense sneeze sensation & eye watering if done gently... OR eye stabbing/brain stabbing sensation if done quickly/haplessly. Any scrubbing of the inside of the insensitive part of the nostrils will only show a true positive if you're in the throws of being very symptomatic and could sneeze on a test and turn it positive.

A reason I don't care much for these free home tests is that possibly around 2/5th's of people will absolutely not put a swab that deep into their own nose for a decent sample. And that's being generous IMO. That's entirely anecdotal though and taken from the dozens of shifts I've spent talking to the 70-90 people I swab in a day at my 2nd job (swabbing folks while we wait for more monoclonal antibodies).
 

ARCC

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I whole lot of that boils down to timing and technique. If you're swabbed during the viremic phase of the Illness when you're most symptomatic and most contagious then the antigen test is very accurate. If you test early or late after this phase it is substantially less sensitive than a PCR test.
This is all assuming you've had an actual good swab performed. The correct swabbing location of the anterior nares, middle turbinate (not many swab here) and deep nasopharyngeal -- the epithelial tissue should be extremely sensitive and cause an intense sneeze sensation & eye watering if done gently... OR eye stabbing/brain stabbing sensation if done quickly/haplessly. Any scrubbing of the inside of the insensitive part of the nostrils will only show a true positive if you're in the throws of being very symptomatic and could sneeze on a test and turn it positive.

A reason I don't care much for these free home tests is that possibly around 2/5th's of people will absolutely not put a swab that deep into their own nose for a decent sample. And that's being generous IMO. That's entirely anecdotal though and taken from the dozens of shifts I've spent talking to the 70-90 people I swab in a day at my 2nd job (swabbing folks while we wait for more monoclonal antibodies).
I know they hit me hard(I wasn’t sick just being tested because the kids were) and my two year old(made her nose bleed). My wife said it wasn’t that bad and my son said it tickled and he is the one who was positive.

Either way omnicron has made it through my home, thankfully quick moving an no where near as bad as that stupid stomach bug that hit us a few weeks back.
 

Derek00

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Well, today the decision was made for our district to go virtual on Mondays and Fridays (teachers still have to be at school during normal hours, which I don't understand, but that's a different story...). Immediately after the news broke, the comment sections on Facebook were filled with people talking about how 'lazy and pathetic' the teachers are and the 'what am I supposed to do with my kids?' comments. Sprinkled amongst those were also the "COVID is just a runny nose/this is a fake pandemic" comments. THEN, after work, I went into a local sporting goods store and got a speech from some old lady because I was wearing a mask and wearing a Carhartt jacket (I was called a communist, which admittedly made my wife and I laugh pretty hard, so that was fun). Are people really this stupid now? Have we devolved this much as a society to where people have just lost any common sense /empathy/manners they may have once had?
 

Jacob

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Well, today the decision was made for our district to go virtual on Mondays and Fridays (teachers still have to be at school during normal hours, which I don't understand, but that's a different story...). Immediately after the news broke, the comment sections on Facebook were filled with people talking about how 'lazy and pathetic' the teachers are and the 'what am I supposed to do with my kids?' comments. Sprinkled amongst those were also the "COVID is just a runny nose/this is a fake pandemic" comments. THEN, after work, I went into a local sporting goods store and got a speech from some old lady because I was wearing a mask and wearing a Carhartt jacket (I was called a communist, which admittedly made my wife and I laugh pretty hard, so that was fun). Are people really this stupid now? Have we devolved this much as a society to where people have just lost any common sense /empathy/manners they may have once had?

Aside from the rest of it my question is, what did somebody rant at you about for wearing a Carhartt jacket? I'm genuinely laughing about that part because I clearly missed whatever memo there is on wearing Carhartt stuff.
 

ghost

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Well, today the decision was made for our district to go virtual on Mondays and Fridays (teachers still have to be at school during normal hours, which I don't understand, but that's a different story...). Immediately after the news broke, the comment sections on Facebook were filled with people talking about how 'lazy and pathetic' the teachers are and the 'what am I supposed to do with my kids?' comments. Sprinkled amongst those were also the "COVID is just a runny nose/this is a fake pandemic" comments. THEN, after work, I went into a local sporting goods store and got a speech from some old lady because I was wearing a mask and wearing a Carhartt jacket (I was called a communist, which admittedly made my wife and I laugh pretty hard, so that was fun). Are people really this stupid now? Have we devolved this much as a society to where people have just lost any common sense /empathy/manners they may have once had?
Tell the old bitty that you're wearing it so you don't have to smell her breath
 

Mike S

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Aside from the rest of it my question is, what did somebody rant at you about for wearing a Carhartt jacket? I'm genuinely laughing about that part because I clearly missed whatever memo there is on wearing Carhartt stuff.
Someone I am Facebook friends with said he wasn't wearing Carhartt due to their vax and mask mandates for their employees, so I guess that.
 

Jacob

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Someone I am Facebook friends with said he wasn't wearing Carhartt due to their vax and mask mandates for their employees, so I guess that.

Ah. I'm very anti-mandate for both masks and the vax, but I wouldn't have made that connection. Common decency should tell you not to berate somebody in public like that, even if you agreed in principle with why they were upset.
 

Evan

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Statistically I can't say, but, anecdotally, my daughter's elementary school had very few cases during original COVID and Delta. I think we were notified one time pre-Omicron of a potential exposure.

Fast forward to Omicron and we were getting CONSTANT notifications as of last Thursday. By Saturday evening my daughter's teacher sent a message saying numerous students in my daughter's class had recently tested positive, the teacher herself was positive, and that the focus is now on everyone getting healthy and returning as making up assignments right now simply wasn't a possibility.

My daughter's school has done an excellent job throughout COVID. She also has a truly wonderful teacher who my wife and I both love. Extremely accessible via messaging on ClassDojo. Willing to give us recommendations on things my daughter needs help with or things she should focus on. Unquestionably the best teacher my daughter has ever had.

Oh, interestingly enough, my daughter said that basically only a 1/4 of her class was there early this week and several of the kids who were there have already recovered from a recent bout with COVID.

I have no idea what the vax rate is in my daughter's class, but I know my area in general is a pretty good bit BELOW average. So, I would imagine my daughter is one of only a handful of children in her class who is vaccinated (my daughter is 9). As of today, She still has not tested positive for COVID nor has she had any symptoms. My daughter is a bit of a drama queen so if she had symptoms we'd know. She received her 2nd dose of Pfizer in early December. Pretty much perfect timing to withstand the Omicron wave.

My family has been very fortunate thus far. Neither of my children have had COVID, neither my wife nor I have had it, and none of our parents have had it. Everyone is vaccinated. I masked pretty well until April/May of this year. Masked selectively during Delta especially in any crowded stores/events. I have only masked randomly during Omicron in very high risk situations. That said, virtually everyone at work is vaccinated and most of our clients we work on-site with have high vax rates or mandate the vaccine.

We gave our daughter a choice as it pertains to masking. She can wear one if she wants. We have a number of N-95s for her a ton of kid-sized surgical masks. I'd say she probably masks 50-75% of the time at school but I'm not there so I can't say for sure. We've told her it is entirely her choice, we but did recommend she do so during her return to school in January as our expectation has been that Omicron should be receding sharply in Alabama very soon. I told her if she could make it a few weeks it might help her. We still let it be her decision, though. Her school system had mandatory masks during Delta. She doesn't wear it during PE/lunch so I doubt it is really doing all that much except for maybe preventing spread if she was every asymptomatically positive.

My son generally does not wear a mask unless we go somewhere it is required. I'm sure most people can imagine how long that requirement gets followed by a 4 year old. He'll be getting the vaccine right after his 5th birthday at the end of February. I do wonder if he's already had Omicron asymptomatically. If things are calmed down on the testing front by then we may get him tested for antibodies first if his doctor agrees to do so. More out of curiosity than anything else.

I knew as soon as I pressed submit on this post that I would be tempting fate.

12 hours after I made that post I developed symptoms of COVID (1AM Friday morning). Based off the symptoms alone I was 99% sure it was COVID.

I definitely wanted to swab myself all day yesterday. It helped hold me off that I felt so terrible. Pounding, skull-shattering headache, chills, fever, and congestion. All that made it to where I didn't want to even move, so swabbing my nose was very very very low on my priorities list.

Biggest mistake I made was not making sure I took some Ibuprofen every 4-6 hours. That was the only thing that made the symptoms tolerable -- especially the headache and fever -- but I was sick enough that keep tracking of time wasn't super easy.

The chills were incredible. I'm a very hot natured person. We keep the heat on 68-69 during the winter unless it's below 25 degrees in which case we might bump it to 70. I had the heat on 76 yesterday and put a full down comforter on top of our usual heavy winter one.

That led to the next bit of COVID fun which seems very specific to Omicron. Drenching night sweats. I woke up 3-4 times and had to move to a different part of the bed, change clothes, and temporarily remove the extra comforter. I would stop having the drenching sweats until I woke up with my teeth chattering from chills. Rinse and repeat all night.

Yesterday was miserable. Finally, about 8am today I felt better. That also coincided with 24 hours+ from onset of symptoms. Perfect time to do a rapid antigen test. The test line turned positive before the fluid mix even reached the control line. We're talking just a few seconds and it was already a BRIGHT positive. I read it again at the suggested 10 minute interval, and, obviously, it was still just as positive.

Everything I've read from Michael Mina is that within 0-12 hours of symptom onset it is unlikely you will test positive. He just tested positive himself 5 days ago, and within the 0-12 hour interval all of his tests were negative. After 24 hours he received an immediate positive.


So, if you have rapid tests and start to experience any symptoms, I think the best thing you can do is isolate once symptoms begin and take a rapid test as soon as you hit 24 hours from symptom onset. There's simply too much evidence at this point to use rapid tests any other way.
 

Jacob

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I knew as soon as I pressed submit on this post that I would be tempting fate.

12 hours after I made that post I developed symptoms of COVID (1AM Friday morning). Based off the symptoms alone I was 99% sure it was COVID.

I definitely wanted to swab myself all day yesterday. It helped hold me off that I felt so terrible. Pounding, skull-shattering headache, chills, fever, and congestion. All that made it to where I didn't want to even move, so swabbing my nose was very very very low on my priorities list.

Biggest mistake I made was not making sure I took some Ibuprofen every 4-6 hours. That was the only thing that made the symptoms tolerable -- especially the headache and fever -- but I was sick enough that keep tracking of time wasn't super easy.

The chills were incredible. I'm a very hot natured person. We keep the heat on 68-69 during the winter unless it's below 25 degrees in which case we might bump it to 70. I had the heat on 76 yesterday and put a full down comforter on top of our usual heavy winter one.

That led to the next bit of COVID fun which seems very specific to Omicron. Drenching night sweats. I woke up 3-4 times and had to move to a different part of the bed, change clothes, and temporarily remove the extra comforter. I would stop having the drenching sweats until I woke up with my teeth chattering from chills. Rinse and repeat all night.

Yesterday was miserable. Finally, about 8am today I felt better. That also coincided with 24 hours+ from onset of symptoms. Perfect time to do a rapid antigen test. The test line turned positive before the fluid mix even reached the control line. We're talking just a few seconds and it was already a BRIGHT positive. I read it again at the suggested 10 minute interval, and, obviously, it was still just as positive.

Everything I've read from Michael Mina is that within 0-12 hours of symptom onset it is unlikely you will test positive. He just tested positive himself 5 days ago, and within the 0-12 hour interval all of his tests were negative. After 24 hours he received an immediate positive.


So, if you have rapid tests and start to experience any symptoms, I think the best thing you can do is isolate once symptoms begin and take a rapid test as soon as you hit 24 hours from symptom onset. There's simply too much evidence at this point to use rapid tests any other way.

Glad you are feeling better today. How high of a fever did you run? Sounds like yesterday wasn't a lot of fun.
 

Evan

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Glad you are feeling better today. How high of a fever did you run? Sounds like yesterday wasn't a lot of fun.

100.6

I felt much better when I posted at 11am. Feeling pretty rough again right now but not nearly as bad as yesterday. My wife is feeling pretty cruddy but not bedridden like I was yesterday. Daughter had a fever but after some Ibuprofen she's been outside playing basketball. My son is still asymptomatic. Figure his won't come on for awhile longer as he's unvaccinated.

Those who are vaccinated should typically develop symptoms much quicker than those unvaccinated because most of the early symptoms are due to your body's immune response and not due to the virus itself.

I have an autoimmune disease so I've always expected mine would be worse than what my family would have if we all had it together. Yesterday I felt bad enough I was seriously considering looking for an infusion but I wanted to hold out and see how I felt today. Unless I take a turn for the worse, which I don't expect, I'm glad I held off for someone who hasn't been vaccinated or someone else who might really need it.
 

ARCC

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I knew as soon as I pressed submit on this post that I would be tempting fate.

12 hours after I made that post I developed symptoms of COVID (1AM Friday morning). Based off the symptoms alone I was 99% sure it was COVID.

I definitely wanted to swab myself all day yesterday. It helped hold me off that I felt so terrible. Pounding, skull-shattering headache, chills, fever, and congestion. All that made it to where I didn't want to even move, so swabbing my nose was very very very low on my priorities list.

Biggest mistake I made was not making sure I took some Ibuprofen every 4-6 hours. That was the only thing that made the symptoms tolerable -- especially the headache and fever -- but I was sick enough that keep tracking of time wasn't super easy.

The chills were incredible. I'm a very hot natured person. We keep the heat on 68-69 during the winter unless it's below 25 degrees in which case we might bump it to 70. I had the heat on 76 yesterday and put a full down comforter on top of our usual heavy winter one.

That led to the next bit of COVID fun which seems very specific to Omicron. Drenching night sweats. I woke up 3-4 times and had to move to a different part of the bed, change clothes, and temporarily remove the extra comforter. I would stop having the drenching sweats until I woke up with my teeth chattering from chills. Rinse and repeat all night.

Yesterday was miserable. Finally, about 8am today I felt better. That also coincided with 24 hours+ from onset of symptoms. Perfect time to do a rapid antigen test. The test line turned positive before the fluid mix even reached the control line. We're talking just a few seconds and it was already a BRIGHT positive. I read it again at the suggested 10 minute interval, and, obviously, it was still just as positive.

Everything I've read from Michael Mina is that within 0-12 hours of symptom onset it is unlikely you will test positive. He just tested positive himself 5 days ago, and within the 0-12 hour interval all of his tests were negative. After 24 hours he received an immediate positive.


So, if you have rapid tests and start to experience any symptoms, I think the best thing you can do is isolate once symptoms begin and take a rapid test as soon as you hit 24 hours from symptom onset. There's simply too much evidence at this point to use rapid tests any other way.
Your symptoms completely match those of my wife on Monday. She didn’t develop the chest pain/congestion until after her other symptoms completely went away though so beware there, although she never felt short of breath.
 

Evan

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Your symptoms completely match those of my wife on Monday. She didn’t develop the chest pain/congestion until after her other symptoms completely went away though so beware there, although she never felt short of breath.

Keep us posted on how everybody at your house is making out. The congestion has felt about the same today thus far. No drop on pulse ox yet but your post is a good reminder to continue monitoring it.
 

ARCC

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Keep us posted on how everybody at your house is making out. The congestion has felt about the same today thus far. No drop on pulse ox yet but your post is a good reminder to continue monitoring it.
Everyone is fine here. Kids played outside a good bit. My wife, oldest daughter and one of the twins have had tired moments or felt crummy here or there, but otherwise all is well.
 

Evan

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It certainly makes them less useful than we all wish they were. One big reason being people don't have access to test frequently with them. Most people if they test negative aren't going to check again/wouldn't be able to check again in 12, 24, 36 hours, etc.

I think it's more of a messaging issue than anything. Most people aren't going to be checking the Twitter account of an expert on rapid antigen tests to know the best way to use these tests in the age of Omicron. The CDC, White House, and public health authorities have done an absolutely horrid job of explaining how to use rapid tests with Omicron.

I only knew about the true way to use them due to stumbling across Michael Mina's account back in mid-December. And, I'd like to consider myself a pretty well-informed person when it comes to COVID. Omicron and higher vax rates really changed the game when it comes to rapid tests, but the CDC and others are still fighting the last battle. They've done a piss poor job of explaining how to best use the tools we have.

It stands to reason, if the CDC can't manage to be nimble and quick in a pandemic and keep guidance up-to-date then why do they exist? They've become so bureaucratic that they been almost useless during COVID. Surely people haven't forgotten about their early missteps with testing during the beginning of COVID.

By no means am I injecting politics here, but it's hard for me to see how the current administration is handling COVID any better than the last.

We should have better government and public authorities than we do. COVID won't be the last pandemic this country experiences.

I could go on and on, but the bottom-line is that two years into COVID we're barely doing any better at managing this thing than when it started. And, a huge reason for that is a slow to react bureaucracy in government and extremely poor messaging.
 

Jacob

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There's a stark difference so far in this wave in Alabama with hospitalizations and deaths. That wasn't the case during the Delta wave at all. Here's the 7 day average of deaths vs. hospitalizations in Alabama by report date. This metric doesn't fill in over time like deaths by day of death does, so it is better to use to compare a current wave with a previous wave.

I expect deaths to fill in somewhat over the next few weeks, but it looks like we'll only end up with a fraction of the deaths we saw during the Delta wave.

image.png
 

Jacob

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Your symptoms completely match those of my wife on Monday. She didn’t develop the chest pain/congestion until after her other symptoms completely went away though so beware there, although she never felt short of breath.

What was the flu like symptoms your wife had? I suspect it is in my house currently.
 

Derek00

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Someone I am Facebook friends with said he wasn't wearing Carhartt due to their vax and mask mandates for their employees, so I guess that.
Yeah, that's it. My Facebook feed is full of people taking pictures of their Carhartt stuff in garbage cans, knowing full well they were pulling it out and hanging it back in the closet when the picture was posted. I would hope they would at least donate it. I have no idea why it would bother anyone who doesn't actually work for the company, but whatever. This crap reminds me of the time folks were smashing their Keurig stuff over them pulling their ads from Sean Hannity's show. Idiots.
 

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