COVID-19 detected in United States (4 Viewers)

ghost

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we're getting closer to a more effective annual COVID vaccine.

I'm vaxed and boosted(once), but now the new Pfizer drug is on the market that you can take once infected I am laying off the boosters. I might do an annual with my flu shot though.

I am the same Mike.. 2 vax and 1 boost. With the strains mutating to less severe forms and Paxlovid available and seemingly effective, I am not opting for another booster at this time.
 

Jacob

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We are now on the backside of the current BA.5 wave, and thankfully it proved to be a big nothing-burger across the US. It has certainly caused a lot of mild illness across the US this summer, but there's just not much severe illness associated with it. It's hard to get an accurate estimate of hospitalization/death numbers due to incidentals, but it sounds like incidental admissions/hospitalizations make up as many as 80-90% of "COVID Hospitalizations" now.
 
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ghost

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3 of my good friends have all had Covid in the last week and 1 is still testing positive. All of them started Paxlovid within 24 hrs of symptom onset and positive testing (2 of them are MDs). One felt bad for about 36 hrs then bounced back pretty quickly and tested negative 5 days later. The other 2 stayed in bed with bad headache, body aches, fever, cough for 3 days and are still feeling pretty bad even though the fever broke on Day 4 for both of them. One of them still tested positive after 7 days, the other hasn't retested yet
 

ghost

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Well now I've tested positive. Stayed in bed all day yesterday with body aches, fever, and cough. Feeling a bit better today. Been up moving around some and fever is down. Hope the trend continues.
 

Sawmaster

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Well now I've tested positive. Stayed in bed all day yesterday with body aches, fever, and cough. Feeling a bit better today. Been up moving around some and fever is down. Hope the trend continues.
Get well soon :)
 

Jacob

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I’ll give the CDC credit for one thing, just when I think they couldn’t sink any lower, they manage to do so.

They voted unanimously (15-0) this morning to add the COVID vaccine to the childhood immunization schedule.

Unfortunately, if this ends up with states trying to mandate it based on CDC guidelines, it’s going to lead to a drop in the percentages of people getting their kids other typical vaccines.
 
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Evan

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I’ll give the CDC credit for one thing, just when I think they couldn’t sink any lower, they manage to do so.

They voted unanimously (15-0) this morning to add the COVID vaccine to the childhood immunization schedule.

Unfortunately, if this ends up with states trying to mandate it based on CDC guidelines, it’s going to lead to a drop in the percentages of people getting their kids other typical vaccines.

Why shouldn't it be part of the schedule? The influenza vaccine is. If parents choose to not vaccinate their children because of politics I fail to see how anyone is culpable for that other than said parents.
 

bjdeming

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No, it's a good point. Resistance to this vaccine goes beyond politics.

Here in Corvallis we've lost our weekend bus service because of a driver shortage that is nationwide and, I suspect, due to vaccine mandate, though if so, it won't be reported until some future point when it's deemed politically safe.

This resistance seems visceral, not political.

People are probably changing jobs, using their driving license for companies that don't mandate the vaccine, and those of us without cars lose bus service.

That's nothing, though, compared to childhood vaccinations; I think Jacob is right. I wish he weren't. :(
 

Jacob

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Why shouldn't it be part of the schedule? The influenza vaccine is. If parents choose to not vaccinate their children because of politics I fail to see how anyone is culpable for that other than said parents.

If the states treat this like the flu vaccine, then it being on the schedule is mostly harmless. As you know many states use the schedule for basic vaccine requirements, and I fear many states will try to mandate this one now that it is on there. The push back will be enormous if so.

It’s not about politics when it comes to not wanting this vaccine for a child. Other than it being a small risk with virtually no gain for children, pushing this vaccine will cause a ripple effect across all other children’s vaccines. You can already see it in public sentiment towards vaccines in general. Public health has nobody but themselves to blame for that either.

I’ve vaccinated both my children with everything on the typical schedule, but there’s absolutely zero reason for them to take the COVID shots.
 

Jacob

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No, it's a good point. Resistance to this vaccine goes beyond politics.

Here in Corvallis we've lost our weekend bus service because of a driver shortage that is nationwide and, I suspect, due to vaccine mandate, though if so, it won't be reported until some future point when it's deemed politically safe.

This resistance seems visceral, not political.

People are probably changing jobs, using their driving license for companies that don't mandate the vaccine, and those of us without cars lose bus service.

That's nothing, though, compared to childhood vaccinations; I think Jacob is right. I wish he weren't. :(

The fact that there are any mandates at all currently is a disgrace and is an anti-science position itself. It certainly increases shortages as well.

I had a good job opportunity approach me earlier this year, but I ended up turning down the in-person interview because they had a vaccine requirement.

You also make a very good point about it not being reported until it is politically safe. When it comes to COVID, today’s facts are yesterday’s conspiracy theory.
 

KoD

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There may be little in the way of personal benefit to a child getting the covid vaccine but there is a point to doing it from a community health perspective, primarily regarding transmission and mutation.
I don't have any particular stance on requiring it though, but I do think there's fair rationales for and against.
 

Jacob

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There may be little in the way of personal benefit to a child getting the covid vaccine but there is a point to doing it from a community health perspective, primarily regarding transmission and mutation.
I don't have any particular stance on requiring it though, but I do think there's fair rationales for and against.

How much does it reduce transmission from children? As easily as the newest variants spread, it's hard to justify the use of it in children to protect others when its effects on transmission aren't very big, and after waning it provides virtually no benefit against transmission.
 
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KoD

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How much does it reduce transmission from children? As easily as the newest variants spread, it's hard to justify the use of it in children to protect others when its effects on transmission aren't very big, and after waning it provides virtually no benefit against transmission.
I don't have any scientific literature but my guess would be a reduction in transmission for only a few months. A lot of that has to do with the incubation dose somebody receives and we all know kiddos get neck deep in germs so they're likely to get a bigger dose & probably could get the infection quite readily after the vaccine immunity has worn off. There's also the subject of asymptomatic spread exacerbated by a vaccinated child who will also spread germs like crazy. That could be a thing worth studying. Ultimately though, the more asymptomatic cases and less infections total is a positive for reducing variations.
I think if people are smart about it (good luck with that) then those who have at risk children or at risk family/friends/teachers etc... Would vaccinate their children after considering the risks and benefits.
 

Jacob

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I don't have any scientific literature but my guess would be a reduction in transmission for only a few months. A lot of that has to do with the incubation dose somebody receives and we all know kiddos get neck deep in germs so they're likely to get a bigger dose & probably could get the infection quite readily after the vaccine immunity has worn off. There's also the subject of asymptomatic spread exacerbated by a vaccinated child who will also spread germs like crazy. That could be a thing worth studying. Ultimately though, the more asymptomatic cases and less infections total is a positive for reducing variations.
I think if people are smart about it (good luck with that) then those who have at risk children or at risk family/friends/teachers etc... Would vaccinate their children after considering the risks and benefits.

I have no problem with it being left up to the parents and their personal doctors. I have some strong thoughts about the vaccine and kids and how the whole process has been handled, but as long as it isn't mandated I can live with it being in the hands of the parents.
 

Evan

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The fact that there are any mandates at all currently is a disgrace and is an anti-science position itself. It certainly increases shortages as well.

I had a good job opportunity approach me earlier this year, but I ended up turning down the in-person interview because they had a vaccine requirement.

You also make a very good point about it not being reported until it is politically safe. When it comes to COVID, today’s facts are yesterday’s conspiracy theory.

Turning down a good job offer, because you dislike a policy of the employer, sounds rather political to me. If the job had better pay and benefits, and is a good place to work, then what is the rationale in turning it down? Wouldn't it be better for your family to take the job with better benefits and pay, presuming it is an equally as good employer?

Understand, I am not saying there's anything wrong with being political when choosing an employer if that's what one chooses to do.

If your current t employer paid transportation expenses for female employees to obtain an abortion in the post-Roe environment, would you work there? If not, wouldn't that be a political objection?
 
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Evan

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If the states treat this like the flu vaccine, then it being on the schedule is mostly harmless. As you know many states use the schedule for basic vaccine requirements, and I fear many states will try to mandate this one now that it is on there. The push back will be enormous if so.

It’s not about politics when it comes to not wanting this vaccine for a child. Other than it being a small risk with virtually no gain for children, pushing this vaccine will cause a ripple effect across all other children’s vaccines. You can already see it in public sentiment towards vaccines in general. Public health has nobody but themselves to blame for that either.

I’ve vaccinated both my children with everything on the typical schedule, but there’s absolutely zero reason for them to take the COVID shots.

I agree with you that our public health authorities have stumbled badly with COVID. How that equates to anti-vax sentiment is as much on the parent as it is any public health authority -- which is my entire point. If a parent's visceral disdain for Anthony Fauci, caused by steady consumption of slanted political news, causes them to refuse tetanus or polio vaccines for their children -- that's the fault of the parents.

I don't necessarily agree or disagree with you about the vaccination being relatively minimal gain for children. It's a complicated question. Child 1 who is 10 has had 2 mRNA doses. Unlikely she'll get a booster unless and until the efficacy of said booster is higher. Child 2 is 5, it was a giant struggle to get even 1 dose in him, and it is an open question if we'll ever get dose 2 simply because of his intense anxiety relating to any and all medical procedures. Child 1 also had her flu shot, had a pretty nasty vax-site reaction with a giant welt consuming half of her upper arm, took some Ibuprofen, and had the attitude of "whatever" about it.

Both Child 1 and Child 2 have the flu right now. Child 1's case has been much less severe than Child 2.

I've never disagreed that the COVID vaccination should be the choice of parents. Ever. This is not a vaccine that provides near sterilized immunity against a disease that causes severe impact and death to children. We're not quite dealing with the polio vaccine here (although the initial polio vaccines were quite fraught with risk).

I think a lot of the pushback against the COVID vaccines is due to an American populace that became accustomed to highly-protective and effective vaccines with virtually zero side-effects that were tested for extended periods of time and stop abhorrent childhood diseases. COVID vaccination cannot be adequately compared to those vaccines.

I genuinely do not understand why it is a big deal that the COVID vaccine, just like the flu shot, was added to the vaccine schedule. Was there a big uproar when influenza vaccines were initially added? Of course not. Hence why I see this as being political. I had a 23 year old tradesman perform some work for me a few weeks ago. He related to me how much he likes his current employer because they did not require a COVID vaccine for employment. He related to me that his grandfather received the COVID vaccine and died of lung cancer 6 months later. His sincere belief was that the vaccine caused his grandfather's lung cancer because of "Fauci and etc etc etc."

So, I ask, what is the cause of this gentleman believing such a patently absurd and false thing? The conspiracy theories and partisan push my slanted media ecosystems or because public authorities made numerous missteps in combating a generational pandemic? Likewise, is adding the COVID vaccine to the vaccine schedule an issue because of public trust in health authorities or because of slanted media ecosystems pushing it as some great travesty?

I watched social media as news of the COVID vaccine being added filtered out. Public health authorities didn't make some grand show of it. It was the slanted media outlets desperate for clicks and pushing a specific agenda right before mid-term elections who screamed this news from the rooftops. Odd they had no history of doing so for the flu vaccine and used to roundly mock "crunchy" parenting types in urban areas who used to ones who were vaccine skeptical.

I saw an interesting article about a county in California that used to be one of the most vaccine skeptical places in the country -- an overwhelmingly liberal stronghold. Yet, after the beginning of the COVID pandemic, they have an extremely high vax rate for COVID vaccines. Whereas anti-vax used to be trendy and popular, it is now the exact opposite. Partisanship and virtue-signaling are two very strong dopamine hits.

I believe the same motivation that causes people to be virulently "pro-mandate without exception" is the same motivating factor behind those who are still fighting the COVID vaccine as if it is some special evil. That motivation is political for the majority of those who are still regularly engaging on this issue in October of 2022. The vast majority of Americans have moved on. Neither side is going to get their way. The vaccines aren't going to be pulled and banned, and the government isn't going to require a vaccine to simply breathe air.
 

Jacob

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Turning down a good job offer, because you dislike a policy of the employer, sounds rather political to me. If the job had better pay and benefits, and is a good place to work, then what is the rationale in turning it down? Wouldn't it be better for your family to take the job with better benefits and pay, presuming it is an equally as good employer?

Understand, I am not saying there's anything wrong with being political when choosing an employer if that's what one chooses to do.

If your current t employer paid transportation expenses for female employees to obtain an abortion in the post-Roe environment, would you work there? If not, wouldn't that be a political objection?

I’m not vaccinated, and I wasn’t going to consider a job that would force me to get one. That’s not a political decision, that’s a personal health decision.

I suppose I agree with your point that it'd be a political decision if I was choosing it simply because I didn't like the policy, like your abortion point.
 
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Jacob

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I agree with you that our public health authorities have stumbled badly with COVID. How that equates to anti-vax sentiment is as much on the parent as it is any public health authority -- which is my entire point. If a parent's visceral disdain for Anthony Fauci, caused by steady consumption of slanted political news, causes them to refuse tetanus or polio vaccines for their children -- that's the fault of the parents.

Perhaps on the individual level you might have a point, but this effect has been studied before. It was known that if you mandate it there would be increases in the amount of people/parents refusing other vaccines. This was a failure of public health across the board.

I've never disagreed that the COVID vaccination should be the choice of parents. Ever. This is not a vaccine that provides near sterilized immunity against a disease that causes severe impact and death to children. We're not quite dealing with the polio vaccine here (although the initial polio vaccines were quite fraught with risk).

I think a lot of the pushback against the COVID vaccines is due to an American populace that became accustomed to highly-protective and effective vaccines with virtually zero side-effects that were tested for extended periods of time and stop abhorrent childhood diseases. COVID vaccination cannot be adequately compared to those vaccines.

I think you inadvertently hit the nail on the head with that second paragraph. What you are leaving out is that it was pushed as if it was like all the others. "Most widely studied vaccine ever", "safest vaccine ever", "95% effective against COVID". It was presented as if it was too good to be true, but in the public space you weren't able to question it or you were belittled. We had some back and forth on the shot last summer if you remember, where you tried to come at me repeatedly from a moral high ground about why I should get the shot. That conversation was a microcosm of what was taking place all across the country. The irony in that conversation now is that I, a previously infected individual, was much more protected against infection and severe disease than you were, a vaccinated and not previously infected individual. We know now it isn't very effective against transmission, it wanes quickly, and the safety profile isn't nearly as safe as it was portrayed last summer.
I genuinely do not understand why it is a big deal that the COVID vaccine, just like the flu shot, was added to the vaccine schedule. Was there a big uproar when influenza vaccines were initially added? Of course not. Hence why I see this as being political. I had a 23 year old tradesman perform some work for me a few weeks ago. He related to me how much he likes his current employer because they did not require a COVID vaccine for employment. He related to me that his grandfather received the COVID vaccine and died of lung cancer 6 months later. His sincere belief was that the vaccine caused his grandfather's lung cancer because of "Fauci and etc etc etc."

So, I ask, what is the cause of this gentleman believing such a patently absurd and false thing? The conspiracy theories and partisan push my slanted media ecosystems or because public authorities made numerous missteps in combating a generational pandemic? Likewise, is adding the COVID vaccine to the vaccine schedule an issue because of public trust in health authorities or because of slanted media ecosystems pushing it as some great travesty?

I watched social media as news of the COVID vaccine being added filtered out. Public health authorities didn't make some grand show of it. It was the slanted media outlets desperate for clicks and pushing a specific agenda right before mid-term elections who screamed this news from the rooftops. Odd they had no history of doing so for the flu vaccine and used to roundly mock "crunchy" parenting types in urban areas who used to ones who were vaccine skeptical.

I think the response to this builds off of my response immediately above. It's the behavior and lies that public health has pushed the past two years that are making the pushback to this going on the schedule so fierce. Trying to compare it to the flu shot being on the schedule is a terrible comparison because we've never treated the flu shot like people have been treating the COVID vaccine the past two years. How many people do you know have been refused entry into an establishment/restaurant/business/etc. because they didn't have a recent flu shot? How many kids do you know haven't been allowed to go to college/high school/grade school because they didn't have the flu shot? How many people do you know that were fired and ostracized because they didn't have the flu shot? It's a terrible comparison because the two have never been treated the same. Did you know that Yale/Harvard *still* currently require 2 shots + booster + bivalent booster to attend those schools? That is patently absurd, and anybody involved in those decisions should be fired and never allowed to work in public health again. However that mindset and attitude is still present in plenty of leftists across this nation. Just because they don't have the power/pubic will to do it in most places right now doesn't mean they won't do it when they get the chance.

As for your other point about misinformation about the vaccine, I agree that the absurd claims such as the man's you mention here only hurt things, and can't be blamed squarely on public health. However, public health's attitude and decisions on the vaccine have helped fuel many of those conspiracies. We now know a lot of side effects are more common than originally reported, but public health tried to squash anything that would portray the vaccine in a negative light. That helped to breed conspiracy theories, some of which are obviously going to be crazy.

The uproar is what it is because we've all witnessed the abhorrent behavior of public health over the last two years. We still see the vaccine mandates that are in place at some areas, and know that there's a lot on the left that would institute a vaccine mandate on kids if they are given the opportunity. Putting this on the vaccine schedule potentially gives them that opportunity, and I'll be surprised if we don't see some areas or states try to do that. Those living in red states don't really have to worry about it, but there's plenty of parents that don't want this vaccine for their kids that are living in areas where the local or state officials might try it. Unfortunately, the meme below is what many parents have dealt with for the past two years, and it's what my concern is for areas that try to mandate it. The CDC has been pushing the "fact" that they don't make mandates, so people shouldn't be upset at this, knowing full well that many mandates are made based solely on their recommendations.

FfhBCqkXEAM8X1Y


I saw an interesting article about a county in California that used to be one of the most vaccine skeptical places in the country -- an overwhelmingly liberal stronghold. Yet, after the beginning of the COVID pandemic, they have an extremely high vax rate for COVID vaccines. Whereas anti-vax used to be trendy and popular, it is now the exact opposite. Partisanship and virtue-signaling are two very strong dopamine hits.

I believe the same motivation that causes people to be virulently "pro-mandate without exception" is the same motivating factor behind those who are still fighting the COVID vaccine as if it is some special evil. That motivation is political for the majority of those who are still regularly engaging on this issue in October of 2022. The vast majority of Americans have moved on. Neither side is going to get their way. The vaccines aren't going to be pulled and banned, and the government isn't going to require a vaccine to simply breathe air.

Couldn't agree more on the virtue signalling being a very strong dopamine hit. It is what has kept the pro-mask and pro-vaccine mandate sides going for the last year now.

You are correct that most people have moved on, but there's still plenty in power that haven't moved on. It is still being pushed on people from positions of power. I've shielded myself as well as I can by working for companies that don't have any mandates, and choosing to live in a deeply red area. When I was looking to move earlier this year, I marked off many beautiful areas that would've normally been on my list to move to because they were blue areas. Not everybody has that option. I hope all of this continues to fade into oblivion, though I do think many responsible for some of the worst decisions should face a reckoning. They won't, but I can hope.
 

Evan

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Hard to trust saying "It's not political" and then proceeding to post the same anti-vax/COVID-skeptic talking points that have been circulating since 2020. I will respond at length later this week as I have time.
 

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