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Enhanced Fujita Ratings Debate Thread

buckeye05

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With all that said, there are some encouraging signs. More detail and the addition of other non-structural factors, such as radar data, will beneficial. Also, as another user mentioned, there was a noticeable lack of questionable ratings associated with the recent November 4 outbreak. Each and every tornado that needed an upgrade, got an upgrade. That almost never happens.

With that said, there were some of other surveys this year that were too conservative, mainly during the second big outbreak, as the surveys for the Iowa outbreak in early March were pretty fair.

March 21
-Round Rock/Granger, TX should be upped to EF3 (an anchored house was leveled and largely slabbed. I mean seriously? Come on...)
-Bowie, TX should be upped to EF2
-Gainesville, TX should be upped to EF2
-Kingston, OK should be upped to EF2
-An argument for EF3 can be made for a few others like Elgin, Buncombe Creek, and Ore City, but high-end EF2 isn't totally inappropriate.

April 29
-Not as bad as others, but after lots of pondering and comparison with other events, I have changed my mind and think that marginal EF4 would have been fine for Andover, KS. The construction wasn't good, but the severe debarking at and around the obliterated pet supplies shop, and lofting of large metal shipping containers/cars through the air provides just enough contextual support to push it to EF4, in my opinion at least. I do not think there was any EF4 structural damage with that one though.

I'm sure there are others, but I can't think of any off the top of my head. What other 2022 tornado ratings to you guys think they got wrong? Curious to hear.
 

joshoctober16

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1668855334719.png it only showd the first 4 , never showd the full for this one
1668855398059.png this one has been split into 2 sub DI
1668855446499.png not in the new scale but was from a list of stuff they wanted to add that was made in 2015 (some made it in but a lot didnt).
2 suddenly vanished? i think the multi-story school got merged into just school , there were 2 seperete religious buildings listed , but now only one?

edit(i sware Di 13 used to be somthing else and now religious buildings is back? , feels like a mendela effect.)
 

Sawmaster

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On DI 4:
Just a small difference in winds where a occupant would probably be seriously harmed or killed and total destruction...

Haven't looked at much more but it does seem comprehensive as well as clear in definition and easy to undrstand. Hopefully that will lead to more consistent results which is a large part of the problem now.

Thanks for posting this :):)
 

joshoctober16

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oh also if your wondering i listed some yellow and orange on there name
Yellow = a common DI to have but wont help with (High EF3 to EF5 150+ mph)
Orange a common DI to have that will help with (High EF3 to EF5 150+ mph)

so ya vehicles and farm silos will be helpfull
 
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Interesting that they've gone away from the lower-upper bound categorization in favor of resistance. What's up with the color coded wind speeds? I counted at least 13.
 

joshoctober16

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Interesting that they've gone away from the lower-upper bound categorization in favor of resistance. What's up with the color coded wind speeds? I counted at least 13.
for these wind speeds.
Light blue is for 35-54 mph
Dark blue is for 55-64 mph
cyan is for 65-85 mph (EF0)
green is for 86-102 mph (EF1)
dark green is for 103-110 mph (EF1)
yellow is for 111-135 mph (EF2)
orange is for 136-149 mph (EF3)
dark orange is for 150-165 mph (EF3)
Red is for 166-182 mph (EF4)
dark red is for 183-194 mph (EF4)
pink is for 195-200 mph (EF4 , starting point of EF5 for canada EF scale)
purple is for 201-212 mph (EF5)
Blue is for 213-234 mph (EF5)
White is for 235+ mph (EF5,beta EF scale had EF5 stop at 234 mph)
 
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1668855446499.png
not in the new scale but was from a list of stuff they wanted to add that was made in 2015 (some made it in but a lot didnt).
Wait, so they're not putting scouring into the new scale?
 

buckeye05

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Vegetation/grass scouring would be a nice addition, but I totally understand not wanting to include pavement scouring. The New Boston, TX EF3 from earlier this month is a perfect example of why it wouldn’t be a good idea.
 

buckeye05

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It got sorta buried earlier, but what ratings from the 2022 season do you guys not agree with? Tornadoes rated too high or too low both count.

-The worst underrated one for me was the Round Rock/Granger, TX supposed "EF2" from back in March.

-In terms of rated too highly, I'd say the Bonaire, GA high-end EF3 from that big outbreak in April. Honestly, I think I would have given that house a high-end EF2 rating based on what the photos showed. The Allendale, SC EF3 from the same outbreak also seemed kinda questionable.
 
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Vegetation/grass scouring would be a nice addition, but I totally understand not wanting to include pavement scouring. The New Boston, TX EF3 from earlier this month is a perfect example of why it wouldn’t be a good idea.
The thing with pavement scouring is that it can sometimes be more a reflection of the quality of the roads than the tornado's intensity (especially with rural, 2-lane county roads).
 
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it doesn't have anything to do with tornado ratings and why he thought it was a good idea too post that we'll likely never know......
 

WesL

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it doesn't have anything to do with tornado ratings and why he thought it was a good idea too post that we'll likely never know......
Morning - Thanks for the reports. We had a user whose account was compromised. We've notified him and removed the random posts. I'll take the Declaration of Independence over what could have been posted. We now return you to tornado ratings.
 
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A tornado I'm kind of surprised about this year was Salado. This tornado has quite a bit supporting violent intensity, including a small set of properties that were completely leveled, and severe debarking to hardwoods in areas, however only received 165. Especially since the Paris tornado received 170. 1672025990730.png
1847936
 

Tennie

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I just watched the following video, and decided to share it here as it pertains pretty well with the topic of this thread (the video has a runtime of 52:30):



It's a pretty good video going over the history of the Fujita and Enhanced Fujita Scales, why they exist, how they came to be, the issues and debates surrounding them, and the potential improvements that could come in the future. I figure that the information contained within could be of help in putting these debates into perspective.
 
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