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buckeye05

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The damage of Chapman tornado's first peak north of Abliene often gets overlooked. This house near indy/2700 avenue didn't mentioned by NWS and obviously it was swept clean. The wind-rowing near bottom of the picture was violent.
View attachment 9510


Trucks were mangled into balls and threw large distance near this place.
View attachment 9511

There were many heavy machines in Ken Wood's farm. One of 50000lbs Case IH400 was pushed across the field with the mangled 10000lbs 64 chevy truck nearby.
View attachment 9512
some additional pieces from several trucks.
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View attachment 9518
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This was a Toyota highlander before the tornado.
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A blue pickup truck before the tornado
View attachment 9516
a planter before the tornado
View attachment 9519

Yeah that completely swept away house near Abilene was skipped by the NWS Topeka survey team, and wasn't even acknowledged by any meteorologists at all until several people, including myself, contacted Tim Marshall about it. It was rated EF4 due to a lack of wall stud connections, but I strongly feel that this house experienced EF5 winds. I find it strange and irritating that even after Tim Marshall made statements about it, it was still left out of the NWS Topeka survey information. Why in the world would they do that??
 
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Yeah that completely swept away house near Abilene was skipped by the NWS Topeka survey team, and wasn't even acknowledged by any meteorologists at all until several people, including myself, contacted Tim Marshall about it. It was rated EF4 due to a lack of wall stud connections, but I strongly feel that this house experienced EF5 winds. I find it strange and irritating that even after Tim Marshall made statements about it, it was still left out of the NWS Topeka survey information. Why in the world would they do that??
Sounds a lot what happened in Vilonia where the surveyors missed several houses; perhaps it had something to do with how the less EF5 tornadoes in the state of Kansas, the better.
 

TH2002

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Hmmm idk. These type of cookie-cutter homes pop up pretty much overnight in my area as the suburbs sprawl out. They built them cheap and fast. It doesn't really matter if there are bolts when the structure itself is frail and lightweight. The presence of collapsed walls left completely intact, and the cars left parked on the garage slabs say a lot imo. The DAT also shows trees behind some of these home that weren't even defoliated.

This one strongly reminds me of the Hugo, MN tornado of 2008. That one left power lines and trees standing in the back yards of leveled homes between residential streets. Those homes were bolted, but that clearly wasn't a violent tornado. Now this isn't exactly typical, but sometimes even when homes are anchored, the context issues win out.
They could have at least gone with a low-end EF4 rating. Even if the building materials used were substandard, the homes were still bolted and as you can see one was entirely swept away with the debris wind-rowed away from the foundation. You do have a point in that on two of the homes the walls were collapsed and left intact, but in the second picture the wind-rowing of chewed up debris is fairly impressive. Not saying the tornado was an EF5 or anything but the rating was definitely lowballed IMO.
 

buckeye05

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They could have at least gone with a low-end EF4 rating. Even if the building materials used were substandard, the homes were still bolted and as you can see one was entirely swept away with the debris wind-rowed away from the foundation. You do have a point in that on two of the homes the walls were collapsed and left intact, but in the second picture the wind-rowing of chewed up debris is fairly impressive. Not saying the tornado was an EF5 or anything but the rating was definitely lowballed IMO.
I just don’t agree at all. The cars and trees say it all, and it doesn’t matter if there’s chewed up debris in that second photo, because the are also intact walls and unmoved vehicles. You can’t just cherry pick what’s impressive and then ignore contextual discrepancies.

It’s a very commonly used rule of thumb in tornado damage surveying that if unmoved vehicles are present, that the surveyor has good reason to put the construction quality of affected structures, and the intensity of the tornado under intense scrutiny and skepticism.
 

TH2002

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I just don’t agree at all. The cars and trees say it all, and it doesn’t matter if there’s chewed up debris in that second photo, because the are also intact walls and unmoved vehicles. You can’t just cherry pick what’s impressive and then ignore contextual discrepancies.
I'm literally making the argument that one residence should have been rated low-end EF4 based on the fact that it was bolted and the foundation was swept clean with wind rowed granulated debris. Fail to see how that is cherrypicking as I'm not denying that there are contextual discrepancies. If I really was ignoring context then I would be championing an EF5 rating.

That being said, just my two cents and you don't have to agree with me.
 

buckeye05

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I'm literally making the argument that one residence should have been rated low-end EF4 based on the fact that it was bolted and the foundation was swept clean with wind rowed granulated debris. Fail to see how that is cherrypicking as I'm not denying that there are contextual discrepancies. If I really was ignoring context then I would be championing an EF5 rating.

That being said, just my two cents and you don't have to agree with me.
I mean I definitely hear you, but I just think this is one of those rare cases where 165 MPH EF3 makes perfect sense, given the context and type of home affected.
 

TH2002

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I mean I definitely hear you, but I just think this is one of those rare cases where 165 MPH EF3 makes perfect sense, given the context and type of home affected.
So this is one of those cases where you'd use the term "lower-bound" rather than "lowballed"?
 

MNTornadoGuy

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One notable tornado from 2010, is the 7/26/2010 Reverse MT tornado. An entire ranch was obliterated with a two-story house being completely swept away, a pickup truck was carried 440 yards, heavy farm machinery was mangled, the concrete foundation of a grain bin was broken, and a wooden bridge was damaged.
Screenshot_2021-05-08_Microsoft_Word_-_Sheridan_County_Tornado_Event_Summary__Final__-_sheridan2010_.png

Screenshot_2021-05-08_Microsoft_Word_-_Sheridan_County_Tornado_Event_Summary__Final__-_sheridan2010_.png

Screenshot_2021-05-08_Microsoft_Word_-_Sheridan_County_Tornado_Event_Summary__Final__-_sheridan2010_.png

Screenshot_2021-05-08_Microsoft_Word_-_Sheridan_County_Tornado_Event_Summary__Final__-_sheridan2010_.png

Screenshot_2021-05-08_Microsoft_Word_-_Sheridan_County_Tornado_Event_Summary__Final__-_sheridan2010_.png

Screenshot_2021-05-08_Microsoft_Word_-_Sheridan_County_Tornado_Event_Summary__Final__-_sheridan2010_.png

Screenshot_2021-05-08_Microsoft_Word_-_Sheridan_County_Tornado_Event_Summary__Final__-_sheridan2010_.png



 

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Jon Davies has an article on that tornado. Truly a high end event for the area.
 

buckeye05

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Woah Bridge Creek was an extremely violent tornado. That damage is comparable or maybe even exceeds that of the 2011 El Reno tornado.
Late to the party here, but this is incredibly well-done as usual. I find it interesting that the detail of manhole cover removal occurring in Moore in 1999 was lost to time. I always associate this phenomenon this with the most violent of tornadoes, because besides this, I only know of it occurring in Smithville, Joplin, and Moore 2013.

Also, crazy coincidence but I just now realized that I met James Clarke, the guy who shot the overpass aftermath video in your article, last Saturday while observing a supercell near Decatur, TX. I wish I had known at the time, as I would have loved to have talked to him about that experience!

edit: whoops meant to quote loco there.
 

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Yeah, I'd never heard about the manhole covers until I started interviewing people and a couple of them brought it up independently. Definitely not something you see very often. Also, I just realized I have a ton of photos that I totally forgot about. Probably will update the article to include them tomorrow, but I'll post some of them here for now.

Some of the very worst damage in Moore/OKC occurred here along SW 131st Terrace in Eastlake Estates:



Several apartments at Emerald Springs totally destroyed:



From Southern Hills in Bridge Creek - kinda speaks for itself, I think:



Same area. Among other things, you can see a utility pole snapped off at like two feet:



Just an absolute mangle of, well.. pretty much everything. This is very close to where Kara Wiese was killed:



Debarked tree in the same area:



Thought this one was pretty cool because it shows how rapidly the tornado reintensified. It crossed the Canadian River just beyond the upper left corner of the photo (the little grove of trees that's damaged is a few hundred yards north of the river), weakening as it went. By the time it got to S Drexel Ave (above center), it had already started producing significant scouring & vehicle damage again. That's a distance of just over half a mile.

 

locomusic01

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So, hypothetically, if I were to do one more article (primarily focused on a single tornado to keep the workload more manageable), what would y'all like to see? A few I've considered at various points: 1899 New Richmond, 1913 Omaha, 1980 Grand Island "Night of the Twisters," 1966 Topeka, 1990 Plainfield, 2013 Moore, 2008 Parkersburg, 1919 Fergus Falls, 2011 El Reno/Chickasha/Goldsby, 1955 Blackwell/Udall, 2018 Carr Fire/Redding Fire Tornado, etc.

I've also kicked around the idea of doing a different form of article, but I'm not sure what. Maybe some kind of very broad overview of the worst outbreaks (though that's less interesting IMO), a rundown of some of the "strongest ever" contenders, maybe something breaking down the most extraordinary specific instances/types of damage or whatever.

Not sure what, if anything, I'll do from here, but I have to admit getting back into it has reminded me why I love it. Anyway, been drinking a bit so hopefully I'm not rambling too much lol
 

MNTornadoGuy

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So, hypothetically, if I were to do one more article (primarily focused on a single tornado to keep the workload more manageable), what would y'all like to see? A few I've considered at various points: 1899 New Richmond, 1913 Omaha, 1980 Grand Island "Night of the Twisters," 1966 Topeka, 1990 Plainfield, 2013 Moore, 2008 Parkersburg, 1919 Fergus Falls, 2011 El Reno/Chickasha/Goldsby, 1955 Blackwell/Udall, 2018 Carr Fire/Redding Fire Tornado, etc.

I've also kicked around the idea of doing a different form of article, but I'm not sure what. Maybe some kind of very broad overview of the worst outbreaks (though that's less interesting IMO), a rundown of some of the "strongest ever" contenders, maybe something breaking down the most extraordinary specific instances/types of damage or whatever.

Not sure what, if anything, I'll do from here, but I have to admit getting back into it has reminded me why I love it. Anyway, been drinking a bit so hopefully I'm not rambling too much lol
2018 Carr Fire Tornado would be an interesting one, I have done a lot of research on it already so maybe I could help with it. It is also a pretty underrated tornado too and potentially violent.
 

locomusic01

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2018 Carr Fire Tornado would be an interesting one, I have done a lot of research on it already so maybe I could help with it
Yeah, that's one that really intrigues me. I've been slowly collecting photos and doing some research to stash away but I haven't yet sat down to see what kind of story is there, y'know? I think it could be really compelling though, even if it's not quite what I normally do.

Then again I thought the same thing about Cyclone Mahina and I'm not sure 10 people have read it lol. So, who knows.

I also think 1886 Sauk Rapids is pretty interesting just because of the rivalry of sorts between Sauk Rapids and St. Cloud, and the way the tornado really changed both of their destinations. Some other good stories there as well.
 

MNTornadoGuy

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Yeah, that's one that really intrigues me. I've been slowly collecting photos and doing some research to stash away but I haven't yet sat down to see what kind of story is there, y'know? I think it could be really compelling though, even if it's not quite what I normally do.

Then again I thought the same thing about Cyclone Mahina and I'm not sure 10 people have read it lol. So, who knows.

I also think 1886 Sauk Rapids is pretty interesting just because of the rivalry of sorts between Sauk Rapids and St. Cloud, and the way the tornado really changed both of their destinations. Some other good stories there as well.
There are a lot of people who might be interested in such an article, especially in northern California.
 

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All those ideas sound like they'd be great subject matter for your site, but for me personally, I think the idea of articles covering New Richmond and Fergus Falls excites me the most. I'd be incredibly interested in learning more about those, as they were likely some of the most violent ever recorded imo, and they happened so long ago, that I bet there are a lot of fascinating details that could be dug up that would otherwise be lost to time.

An article covering the F5s and most significant tornadoes of the 1974 Super Outbreak would be incredible too, as I feel that for whatever reason, was somewhat poorly documented for being relatively recent, or at least the information didn't "make it" through the transition to the internet age.
 
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So, hypothetically, if I were to do one more article (primarily focused on a single tornado to keep the workload more manageable), what would y'all like to see? A few I've considered at various points: 1899 New Richmond, 1913 Omaha, 1980 Grand Island "Night of the Twisters," 1966 Topeka, 1990 Plainfield, 2013 Moore, 2008 Parkersburg, 1919 Fergus Falls, 2011 El Reno/Chickasha/Goldsby, 1955 Blackwell/Udall, 2018 Carr Fire/Redding Fire Tornado, etc.

I've also kicked around the idea of doing a different form of article, but I'm not sure what. Maybe some kind of very broad overview of the worst outbreaks (though that's less interesting IMO), a rundown of some of the "strongest ever" contenders, maybe something breaking down the most extraordinary specific instances/types of damage or whatever.

Not sure what, if anything, I'll do from here, but I have to admit getting back into it has reminded me why I love it. Anyway, been drinking a bit so hopefully I'm not rambling too much lol
In terms of broad overview (that might me more manageable before you finally quit) you could do overviews of the concept of 'Dixie Alley', you could summarize some notable Dixie events, such as Natchez 1840, March 1875, April 20, 1920 and the 1932 outbreak and perhaps merge your 1884 Enigma article with it, combining several outbreaks that are poorly documented into a single manageable article (not sure if that makes sense but oh well I'm drinking a bit too lol). The 1966 Candlestick Park tornado could be another good idea for your blog, as it's just a single tornado (yeah, I'm sure it was actually a family of 3-4 separate tornadoes, but you get the idea) and it wasn't part of a larger outbreak, so probably wouldn't be too hard to find information on. Heck, I got a ton of photographs from that outbreak on my computer if you need them.
In terms of other smaller, localized events you could do also do the 1957 Ruskin Heights tornado (definitely overlooked if you live outside of the KC metro area) or 1985 Niles-Wheatland tornado, although that one is part of a larger outbreak which you might not want to do, not sure. Given how unusual the 1985 outbreak is I think it'd deserve a thorough treatment from your blog. For stuff outside the states you could do the 1987 Edmonton event, as it's probably the most violent tornado to form that far north and probably caused some of the most intense damage that was well-documented and outside of the United States.
Total shot in the dark here but it'd be awesome if you could do something on the 1995 Pampa, TX tornado and small regional outbreak associated with it (perhaps you could interview damage surveyors or stormchasers from that day as the damage survey results seem to have been accidentally discarded). Hopefully you don't close up shop too soon on your blog.
 
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All those ideas sound like they'd be great subject matter for your site, but for me personally, I think the idea of articles covering New Richmond and Fergus Falls excites me the most. I'd be incredibly interested in learning more about those, as they were likely some of the most violent ever recorded imo, and they happened so long ago, that I bet there are a lot of fascinating details that could be dug up that would otherwise be lost to time.

An article covering the F5s and most significant tornadoes of the 1974 Super Outbreak would be incredible too, as I feel that for whatever reason, was somewhat poorly documented for being relatively recent, or at least the information didn't "make it" through the transition to the internet age.
Guin especially, if he had to just focus on one tornado from outbreak, or the whole nocturnal sequence that occurred in Northern Alabama, as the stuff in Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee and other Midwestern states seems to have been much better-documented or more quickly transferred online than the Alabama tornadoes (Again Guin, in particular).

When you go to NWS's page on the 40th anniversary of the 1974 Super Outbreak, for the Alabama portion with damage photographs you come to a page that has this image:

map.png

The pink counties are where damage pictures were evidently taken by surveyors, I assume. Not every one of the counties can be clicked on, but the ones that can include Lawrence, Limestone and Madison, where both of the Tanner tornadoes went through. You can find damage aerials and ground level photos from both of these tornadoes as well damage photographs from Jasper, AL and Huntsville, AL on this and other pages on NWS's site. What you will notice is that Marion County, AL (where Guin is located) isn't available on this map, so no damage aerials or the like on here. The only places I've been able to locate Guin damage aerials are from out-of-print books scanned online or the occasional YouTube video (but nothing impressive, just ground level photographs). Really frustrating. Perhaps locomusic could track down a resident of Guin or local historian that is sitting on a ton of damage photographs we'd all really like to see.


 

MNTornadoGuy

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In terms of broad overview (that might me more manageable before you finally quit) you could do overviews of the concept of 'Dixie Alley', you could summarize some notable Dixie events, such as Natchez 1840, March 1875, April 20, 1920 and the 1932 outbreak and perhaps merge your 1884 Enigma article with it, combining several outbreaks that are poorly documented into a single manageable article (not sure if that makes sense but oh well I'm drinking a bit too lol). The 1966 Candlestick Park tornado could be another good idea for your blog, as it's just a single tornado (yeah, I'm sure it was actually a family of 3-4 separate tornadoes, but you get the idea) and it wasn't part of a larger outbreak, so probably wouldn't be too hard to find information on. Heck, I got a ton of photographs from that outbreak on my computer if you need them.
In terms of other smaller, localized events you could do also do the 1957 Ruskin Heights tornado (definitely overlooked if you live outside of the KC metro area) or 1985 Niles-Wheatland tornado, although that one is part of a larger outbreak which you might not want to do, not sure. Given how unusual the 1985 outbreak is I think it'd deserve a thorough treatment from your blog. For stuff outside the states you could do the 1987 Edmonton event, as it's probably the most violent tornado to form that far north and probably caused some of the most intense damage that was well-documented and outside of the United States.
Total shot in the dark here but it'd be awesome if you could do something on the 1995 Pampa, TX tornado and small regional outbreak associated with it (perhaps you could interview damage surveyors or stormchasers from that day as the damage survey results seem to have been accidentally discarded). Hopefully you don't close up shop too soon on your blog.

Guin especially, if he had to just focus on one tornado from outbreak, or the whole nocturnal sequence that occurred in Northern Alabama, as the stuff in Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee and other Midwestern states seems to have been much better-documented or more quickly transferred online than the Alabama tornadoes (Again Guin, in particular).

When you go to NWS's page on the 40th anniversary of the 1974 Super Outbreak, for the Alabama portion with damage photographs you come to a page that has this image:

View attachment 9529

The pink counties are where damage pictures were evidently taken by surveyors, I assume. Not every one of the counties can be clicked on, but the ones that can include Lawrence, Limestone and Madison, where both of the Tanner tornadoes went through. You can find damage aerials and ground level photos from both of these tornadoes as well damage photographs from Jasper, AL and Huntsville, AL on this and other pages on NWS's site. What you will notice is that Marion County, AL (where Guin is located) isn't available on this map, so no damage aerials or the like on here. The only places I've been able to locate Guin damage aerials are from out-of-print books scanned online or the occasional YouTube video (but nothing impressive, just ground level photographs). Really frustrating. Perhaps locomusic could track down a resident of Guin or local historian that is sitting on a ton of damage photographs we'd all really like to see.


Apparently tornado talk has pictures from the worst hit area of Guin that they will show during a future article on that tornado.
 
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