speedbump305
Member
I wonder if El Reno was also able to bend anchor bolts and tear some out concrete slabs like some of the april 27 tornadoes, Elie, bassfield, and grandbury
I don’t think this tornado was not being able to do that and it probably did it was literally the strongest tornado of the 2010sI wonder if El Reno was also able to bend anchor bolts and tear some out concrete slabs like some of the april 27 tornadoes, Elie, bassfield, and grandbury
Both schools weren’t actually well built too well, Joplin schools were actually built really well i heard, i remember seeing that the moore schools had structural flawsI noticed that the school damages made by Moore tornado were among one of the strongest ever, much severe than Joplin High School. Both Plaza Towers Elementary School and Briarwood Elementary School were rated 190mph,highest DOD of JHSH DI.
scouring around this area
View attachment 6584
View attachment 6585View attachment 6586
That channel has a lot of very good videos and practically no views. Most are QUOTE]
That is a great find. Just watched the video showing the correlation of excessive rainfall in the days proceeding big tornado outbreaks and the orientation of the jet stream. Fascinating stuff.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There's a (relatively) high-quality version of the aerial video that's been image-stabilized that really brings out a lot more detail. Unfortunately, the website that had it disappeared years ago and I haven't been able to find it anywhere else since. Wish I'd had a way to download it back then.This link has aerial footage of the Tri-State tornado's path through Murphysboro and De Soto. As you'd expect from footage taken with a 1925 camera from a 1925 plane, it's pretty lacking from a fine detail perspective. But man the scope of the damage is astonishing.This may also be the first instance of tornado damage being documented by aerial film/photography but I'm not sure. Think it also slightly more footage and may be of slightly better quality than what's available on YouTube.
https://digital.tcl.sc.edu/digital/collection/MVTN/id/3249
I think it's largely meaningless to compare these data. For example, it seems that Hackleburg maintained more than 20 miles EF5 intensity and Moore OK 2013 had only 9 EF5 rating places and Bridge Creek Ok 1999 had only 17 EF5 rating places which was quite fragmentary compared to its entire path.
But the rating criterion among different NWS on different tornado event was so SO different.
There was hugh mount of DI like MHSW, Softwood trees, hardwood trees, vehicle had been rated EF5 along Hackleburg's path. These pictures below were very small part of it and we know that no way softwood tree damage can be rated EF5 under any circumstance(let alone the pics they showed was not completely debarked). In contrast, despite of tons and tons of extreme tree damage of Moore OK tornado, there was only one place had been rated EF4 tree damage by NWS Norman.
Someone in reddit recently also found this survey questionable in other aspect:
These questionable rating mainly occurred in NWS Huntsville section but also in NWS Brimingham
NWS Brimingham mentioned the reason of EF5 rating in there section:
Hackleburg Tornado - April 27, 2011
www.weather.gov
Actually this "well built house" mentioned here was questioned by Tim Marshall. It seems that it was in fact not well built. Also vehicle tossed 150-200 yards as an EF5 indicator was very liberal compared to rating nowadays.
As these questionable rating above, Hackleburg was still the strongest tornado in the history to me and it maintained high intensity for increible long time. Just wnat to say it have to consider more when comparing these data between different tornados.
And I honestly don't think Tri State tornado maintained EF5 strength for like 100 miles or so. But it also depends on your definition about "EF5 strength". If say EF5 rating for 100 miles continuously, no way any tornado can do this under rating criterion nowadays.
View attachment 8246View attachment 8247View attachment 8248View attachment 8249View attachment 8250View attachment 8251View attachment 8252View attachment 8253View attachment 8254
View attachment 8255
I’d say this is almost certainly a result of debris impact, given the lack of impressive contextual damage surrounding the slab.El Reno 2011 did this to a garage foundation. Not sure if this was from the winds directly or impact with a large object however.
View attachment 8280
Idk about that man, hackleburg produced very extreme damage as wellI've never really seen the Hackleburg tornado as exceptional among the EF5s, but the most impressive thing to me is the sheer length of time it maintained EF4 intensity - or at least the capability thereof - with EF5 pockets. The longevity of violent damage, exceptional path length (132 miles) and death toll (72, deadliest in state history, and an apparently very severe above ground survival ratio) are probably more impressive than the relatively standard EF5 damage it caused; both Mississippi EF5s were likely more intense.
Stem walling being sheared, torn concrete, concrete storm shelter, the damage in Oak GroveIdk about that man, hackleburg produced very extreme damage as well
Like I said, it was clearly an EF5 and the rating was well-deserved, but in terms of actual structural damage, it only hit a handful of true EF5 eligible structures, and that is a fact. Even the lead damage surveyor would tell you that, and he made a post confirming this on the old forum.Stem walling being sheared, torn concrete, concrete storm shelter, the damage in Oak Grove
probably, i still think it’s well deserved an EF5 rating but you have some pointLike I said, it was clearly an EF5 and the rating was well-deserved, but in terms of actual structural damage, it only hit a handful of true EF5 eligible structures, and that is a fact. Even the lead damage surveyor would tell you that, and he made a post confirming this on the old forum.
Like Equus said, it was more of the scope of the devastation, rather than the intensity that made this event so remarkable. Also yes, the Oak Grove damage and unearthing of the storm shelter pretty crazy and classic EF5, any way you slice it.
BUT, the other things you mentioned have elements of questionability, especially the stem walls. They were clearly lacking any type of internal reinforcement, and it is entirely possible that the shifting of the house caused them to crumble, rather than the wind. There is also distinct possibility that the broken concrete slab in Hackleburg was a result of a debris impact, much like the one posted earlier from El Reno 2011. In all, I stand by my previous post.
In terms of damage severity, would you say Joplin was more violent than Hackleburg?Like I said, it was clearly an EF5 and the rating was well-deserved, but in terms of actual structural damage, it only hit a handful of true EF5 eligible structures, and that is a fact. Even the lead damage surveyor would tell you that, and he made a post confirming this on the old forum.
Like Equus said, it was more of the scope of the devastation, rather than the intensity that made this event so remarkable. Also yes, the Oak Grove damage and unearthing of the storm shelter pretty crazy and classic EF5, any way you slice it.
BUT, the other things you mentioned have elements of questionability, especially the stem walls. They were clearly lacking any type of internal reinforcement, and it is entirely possible that the shifting of the house caused them to crumble, rather than the wind. There is also distinct possibility that the broken concrete slab in Hackleburg was a result of a debris impact, much like the one posted earlier from El Reno 2011. In all, I stand by my previous post.
Again, I’m not calling Hackleburg’s rating into question, just the amount of damage points that actually met the EF5 criteria.probably, i still think it’s well deserved an EF5 rating but you have some point
That’s a real apples to oranges comparison, considering one spent its whole life in rural areas, and the other struck only heavily populated areas. If I had to guess, I’d say they were about equal intensity wise.In terms of damage severity, would you say Joplin was more violent than Hackleburg?