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Enhanced Fujita Ratings Debate Thread

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Here’s a still image from the video. Not to beat an already dead horse, but there’s basically zero chance in my mind that the train car rolled or was dragged there. You can see the drag marks from the other heavier train cars going off track, that is indicative of the sort of movement the tweet was insinuating. And it definitely didn’t roll, you’d have impact marks on the land much deeper than what’s shown here. Grand Forks came to the right conclusion and that is that this thing was thrown.
 
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slenker said:
View attachment 47253
Here’s a still image from the video. Not to beat a dead horse, but there’s basically zero chance in my mind that the train car rolled or was dragged there. You can see the drag marks from the other heavier train cars going off track, that is indicative of the sort of movement the tweet was insinuating. And it definitely didn’t roll, you’d have impact marks on the land much deeper than what’s shown here. Grand Forks came to the right conclusion and that is that this thing was thrown.
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Those other three tankers still strike me as being more impressive for some reason. It's the fact they were dragged sideways while still being hooked together. That's triple the weight even without the rolled over hopper car. They show drag marks but that just means intermittent contact because there’s gaps. Those were also partially lofted into the air for some part of it.
 
slenker said:
View attachment 47253
Here’s a still image from the video. Not to beat a dead horse, but there’s basically zero chance in my mind that the train car rolled or was dragged there. You can see the drag marks from the other heavier train cars going off track, that is indicative of the sort of movement the tweet was insinuating. And it definitely didn’t roll, you’d have impact marks on the land much deeper than what’s shown here. Grand Forks came to the right conclusion and that is that this thing was thrown.
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Plus the insane vegetation damage I posted too, just seals the deal.
 
Grand Poo Bah said:
It's wild how many tornadoes from 2011 could be upgraded to EF5 with the new tree DIs. Flat Rock is a prime example of this.
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Ok finally had a look. Awesome stuff here!

Also yup, the one slab foundation house in Ringgold I always wondered about ended up being the one meeting EF5 criteria. NWS Peachtree City dismissed the allegations of EF5 damage in the Cherokee Valley area because of poor anchoring and weak foundations, and I admit I largely did as well. However, that one slab foundation home always stood out to me. I always thought that if the slab home had anchor bolts, it would completely invalidate the EF4 rating and the rationale behind it, but I never knew if bolts were present or not. Turns out that’s exactly the case.

After reading this, I’d say Ringgold not only meets the newer more liberal post-Enderlin approach to defining EF5 damage; it meets the older more stringent definition too. It should have been rated EF5 to begin with, and the fact that NWS Peachtree City rated the damage low-end EF4 is simply ridiculous. The only silver lining is that if NWS Peachtree City surveyed this tornado today with their current staff (the one that did the Newnan survey), the results would likely be VERY different. Gotta celebrate progress when you see it, even when it’s after the fact.

Thanks for gathering this information and posting it to the forum! It completely changes the way I view Ringgold and its rating.
 
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For the opposite effect, The only two this decade EF4’s I'd consider downgrading to EF3 are Newnan Georgia and caviness Texas.
Newnan is obvious.

Caviness is just, well, It never had a violent look too me. None of the damage did. It seemed a bit generous but It is really borderline. EF4 is fine but it's on the edge. The Di home was just collapsed and slid off the foundation into a big pile. None of the debris seems very wind rowed.
Would anyone concurs on that or is it just me?
 
slenker said:
View attachment 47253
Here’s a still image from the video. Not to beat an already dead horse, but there’s basically zero chance in my mind that the train car rolled or was dragged there. You can see the drag marks from the other heavier train cars going off track, that is indicative of the sort of movement the tweet was insinuating. And it definitely didn’t roll, you’d have impact marks on the land much deeper than what’s shown here. Grand Forks came to the right conclusion and that is that this thing was thrown.
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Call me crazy, but based on this image I think the train car mightve actually done a 3/4ths orbit around the core before it landed.
 
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tornado examiner said:
I been wondering about spiritwood but the more time that goes on the more I doubt it will until the new EF-scale is officially published.
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i was looking at the other tornadoes of this outbreak base on sat , and almost every other tornado except for one of the EF2 had major ground scouring , the most intense tornado base on the scour mark seems to be spiritwood , when it turnd west and was in its shrinking stage.
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Ozonelayer said:
They mean the house itself was literally trenched out of the earth, I believe foundation (Whether it was CMU or Poured Concrete) was included.
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Seems to have ripped out a large portion of basement wall, too. Either that or heavily caked it in mud. Not really seeing any evidence of anchoring either.
 
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Tomcats Forever! said:
Here's an image of the infamous "trenched house" from the 2011 El Reno Piedmont tornado that I've never seen before. How did this home not get rated EF5?
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The ground scouring around this residence was just unreal. I seriously am still in awe at how utterly violent this tornado was. In my personal opinion, quite possibly the most violent tornado of 2011.
 
AJS said:
The ground scouring around this residence was just unreal. I seriously am still in awe at how utterly violent this tornado was. In my personal opinion, quite possibly the most violent tornado of 2011.
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the ground scouring at that spot was so bad that it took until 2015 for it to vanish.
the trench it dug is very noticable in august 2012

2010 image of the area.
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2012 image of the area.
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2014 image zoom in.
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here is a video of the moment it starts hitting the house (power flash)
 
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