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2025 Political Thread

Anti Marine Layer said:
So must be people who are here complaining about Trump and Musk when the Democrats have an all-time record low approval rating.

Since you likely voted for Kamala though, you'd probably like to see things like this happen here.



And this military training would make you happy too



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Again, you’re yelling at hypothetical leftists here and raising total red herrings as you flip around trying to make a coherent argument. It’s possible to be both aghast at what Trump and Musk are doing and also dislike the spinelessness the Democrats are demonstrating. Viewing everything through pure tribalism is just so intellectually lazy and honestly pretty boring to read.
 
I’m a registered Republican in Oklahoma dude, but by all means keep tilting at those windmills, I’m sure you’ll get one someday!
 
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maroonedinhsv said:
Nope. I’ll make a bet with you. If I’m a Democrat, I’ll quit posting. If I’m a registered Republican, you quit posting. You want to make the wager? Mike S is an admin and I’m sure he can enforce it.

He already knows my party, so it should be easy
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I won't make any bets, but you said I'm a person who thinks I'm not a racist because I have Black friends, which is one of the main ways the left uses to classify people as racist.

Other ways they do so is:
  1. If you don't believe that America is a systemically racist country according to the left you are a racist.
  2. According to the left, if you voted for Trump, you're a racist (despite the fact that he had the highest percentage of the Black and Hispanic vote for any Republican in 50 years).
I'm also a conservative Christian though, which not all registered Republicans are. I'm not saying Trump is a great Christian, but at least he defends our freedom of religion while the Democrats do not.

Sure America had slavery and it was horrible. Conservatives do not deny that. But they also know that all cultures had slavery and it was the very ideas from our Declaration of Independence and the Constitution that eventually led to the abolition of slavery, which the abolitionists, such as Frederick Douglass, claim themselves. Most of the abolitionists were Christians too, and up until the 1960s it was mainly the Democrats who kept segregation and Jim Crow going and created the KKK. They were always the less religious of the two parties.

After the Civil Rights Act was passed, the Democrats had to start a new strategy to keep the Black people poor and dependent and that was the welfare system. Lyndon B. Johnson explains it brilliantly: “I’ll have those n****s vote Democrat for the next 200 years.” and “These Negroes, they get pretty uppity these days and that’s a problem for us……….we’ve got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference.”

The left thinks they can solve racism by teaching White kids in school that they are oppressors and that Black kids are oppressed and that America is a horrible country. All that does it creates more division and more racism.

Venezuela used the same strategy to become the socialist hellhole it is today. It all started with tearing down statues, like we had after George Floyd died.
 
Jacob said:
I understand that is the view of quite a few. There’s a few in the current administration I’m happy with and a few I’m not. I’m curious to see where things stand in a year from now.

Perhaps I’m somewhat numb to some of the worst reactions because I saw all the same gnashing of teeth during term 1, much of which was just hyperbole.
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He had much better guardrails in the first term to keep him out of the ditches. 40 of them said "enough" and wouldn't support him in this election. So he ends up filling the slots with unqualified people way in over their head with the power and responsibility they've been given.
 
Jacob said:
Sounds to me like he gamed the courts 6 years ago to avoid deportation, but perhaps his claims are true. Based on his lack of a criminal record in the US, he shouldn’t have been deported to the prison in El Salvador, as it seems the MS-13 ties are pretty flimsy.

Also, “This could happen to anyone!” is quite literally exactly what hyperbole is.
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Jacob, why couldn't it happen to anyone? Without proper due process, and choosing to imprison people outside the United States, why couldn't an ICE agent decide Andy's immigration status is invalid, that he has ties to a criminal gang, and deport him to a prison in El Salvador?

Why can't they do the same to a US citizen? Once you're out of the country they claim they have no way to get you back (which is a total lie, but, apparently, it is hyperbole to call that kidnapping which is exactly what it is).

When there's zero due process and a total lack of respect for judicial order why can't it happen to anyone? They'll just say it was an administrative error. Oops.

Your argument isn't logical. You're saying it is hyperbole when the entire crux of this situation is that they can deport ANYONE they want and say it was an administrative error. What relief is available? What procedures prevent it? I certainly don't agree with people marching in support of Hamas but it is protected speech. This administration is CLEARLY deporting people for speech. They're also imprisoning people with minor visa issues, paperwork errors, and a host of other tiny things that have previously been handled in fair-minded and sensible way. Are you not aware of the Canadian actress? What about the Russian scientist?

Why couldn't any of those people be deported to El Salvador? JD Vance justified the deportation of the man in question because he had traffic tickets. You're overlooking all of this because you politically support this administration. Why not just come out and say that instead of calling it hyperbole?
 
I can point and laugh at what I feel is hyperbole and it doesn’t mean I support all this administration does. I don’t like the lack of guard rails on some of the deportations. I don’t like some of the stuff DOGE has done. Unless the tariffs are all just bargaining chips and don’t stay in effect long, they’ll cause a lot more pain in the next few years and accomplish very little. I could list other disagreements too, but I think I’ve made my point.

I will admit to looking at it through a lens of comparing it to the previous administration. I prefer the current administration’s policies on immigration, as flawed as some may be, vs the last administration’s.
 
Jacob said:
Sounds to me like he gamed the courts 6 years ago to avoid deportation, but perhaps his claims are true. Based on his lack of a criminal record in the US, he shouldn’t have been deported to the prison in El Salvador, as it seems the MS-13 ties are pretty flimsy.

Also, “This could happen to anyone!” is quite literally exactly what hyperbole is.
Click to expand...

Have you read the court documents? He didn't game the court. In fact, the court said he had a credible asylum claim, however, he waited too long to file it so it legally could not award him asylum. His mistake, obviously, but not very surprising considering how inefficient, cumbersome, and unclear our immigration laws and system are.

Additionally, he's married to a US citizen. We've always allowed spouses to obtain permanent residence on the basis of a spousal relationship. But, when someone has accrued unlawful presence it is a much more challenging process. Accordingly, without a lot of granular detail on his immigration history I can't quite say why he didn't yet have a pending adjustment of status application (or if he was subject to a waiting period, etc) that, perhaps, would've caused an ICE agent to dig a little deeper.

Regardless, when ICE took him into custody last month he had been awarded protection from removal. A status that the Federal government did NOT oppose him being granted during his original immigration proceedings. If they decided they now wanted to deport him they were legally required to go to immigration court and ask that the protection from removal be rescinded. They violated federal law and a judge's order when they deported him as they didn't even attempt to have the protection order be rescinded.

You don't understand any of this because you've never dealt with the US immigration system. It is quite common to see people who immigrated legally, did everything correctly, and have done absolutely nothing wrong, face delays, arbitrary revocation of status, and even arrest due to mistakes made by the government. That's why we have due process. You'd think people who supposedly mistrust the government and have complaints about its inefficiencies, bureaucratic largesse, and frequent mistakes would realize those issues didn't spontaneously resolve just because a person from the political party they support obtained the Presidency.

I'm not saying the man from El Salvador did everything legally -- he clearly did not. However, when ICE arrested him he was legally protected from removal AND had a pathway to permanent residence. His wife is a citizen. His brother is a citizen. His children are citizens. He has a documented employment history, is a member of a trade union, and was enrolled in college. Doesn't seem to fit with the claim he's an active member of MS13. If he had received due process then he'd still be with his family.

I'm sorry, but when there's a lack of due process it COULD happen to *anyone* because there's no checks and balances to assure that it won't. You really think people should be thrown into a prison in an entirely different country simply because a federal bureaucrat says so? Why can't they do the same thing to you, Jacob? They clearly can. I think your argument is that they wouldn't not that they couldn't. Hence why your claim that it is hyperbole is obviously false. They absolutely CAN do it to anyone when there's no due process.
 
Evan said:
Have you read the court documents? He didn't game the court. In fact, the court said he had a credible asylum claim, however, he waited too long to file it so it legally could not award him asylum. His mistake, obviously, but not very surprising considering how inefficient, cumbersome, and unclear our immigration laws and system are.

Additionally, he's married to a US citizen. We've always allowed spouses to obtain permanent residence on the basis of a spousal relationship. But, when someone has accrued unlawful presence it is a much more challenging process. Accordingly, without a lot of granular detail on his immigration history I can't quite say why he didn't yet have a pending adjustment of status application (or if he was subject to a waiting period, etc) that, perhaps, would've caused an ICE agent to dig a little deeper.

Regardless, when ICE took him into custody last month he had been awarded protection from removal. A status that the Federal government did NOT oppose him being granted during his original immigration proceedings. If they decided they now wanted to deport him they were legally required to go to immigration court and ask that the protection from removal be rescinded. They violated federal law and a judge's order when they deported him as they didn't even attempt to have the protection order be rescinded.

You don't understand any of this because you've never dealt with the US immigration system. It is quite common to see people who immigrated legally, did everything correctly, and have done absolutely nothing wrong, face delays, arbitrary revocation of status, and even arrest due to mistakes made by the government. That's why we have due process. You'd think people who supposedly mistrust the government and have complaints about its inefficiencies, bureaucratic largesse, and frequent mistakes would realize those issues didn't spontaneously resolve just because a person from the political party they support obtained the Presidency.

I'm not saying the man from El Salvador did everything legally -- he clearly did not. However, when ICE arrested him he was legally protected from removal AND had a pathway to permanent residence. His wife is a citizen. His brother is a citizen. His children are citizens. He has a documented employment history, is a member of a trade union, and was enrolled in college. Doesn't seem to fit with the claim he's an active member of MS13. If he had received due process then he'd still be with his family.

I'm sorry, but when there's a lack of due process it COULD happen to *anyone* because there's no checks and balances to assure that it won't. You really think people should be thrown into a prison in an entirely different country simply because a federal bureaucrat says so? Why can't they do the same thing to you, Jacob? They clearly can. I think your argument is that they wouldn't not that they couldn't. Hence why your claim that it is hyperbole is obviously false. They absolutely CAN do it to anyone when there's no due process.
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The gaming the system comment was that he lived in the US for what, 7 years before he was slated to be deported then claimed asylum? I get that the inefficiencies could be the reason for that, but it also looks like he got caught and was trying to find a way to avoid deportation.

My stance for a long time has been I’d like a complete overhaul of the US immigration system that works towards securing the borders while streamlining legal immigration. Neither party has really attempted to do either for the last few decades.
 
Jacob said:
I can point and laugh at what I feel is hyperbole and it doesn’t mean I support all this administration does. I don’t like the lack of guard rails on some of the deportations. I don’t like some of the stuff DOGE has done. Unless the tariffs are all just bargaining chips and don’t stay in effect long, they’ll cause a lot more pain in the next few years and accomplish very little. I could list other disagreements too, but I think I’ve made my point.

I will admit to looking at it through a lens of comparing it to the previous administration. I prefer the current administration’s policies on immigration, as flawed as some may be, vs the last administration’s.
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What you feel and what is factual are two different things. You feel like they wouldn't deport you. Factually, they absolutely can as without due process there's no one who can stop them.

They are disappearing people and hiding them in the immigration system so that by the time they are located their family doesn't have time to retain legal counsel file suit in the appropriate jurisdiction in order to block the deportation.

Again, you feel like they wouldn't do it to you. Yet, they are doing it to people, and without due process you're no different than any other random person walking down the street.

It's no different than people who think the police wouldn't illegally or accidentally arrest them. I could post 50 examples from the past year where it has happened. It is why we have due process. Because the government makes mistakes, makes claims it cannot backup, misapplies the law, misunderstands the law, and is made-up of humans who, sometimes, simply have a bad day.
 
Jacob said:
The gaming the system comment was that he lived in the US for what, 7 years before he was slated to be deported then claimed asylum? I get that the inefficiencies could be the reason for that, but it also looks like he got caught and was trying to find a way to avoid deportation.

My stance for a long time has been I’d like a complete overhaul of the US immigration system that works towards securing the borders while streamlining legal immigration. Neither party has really attempted to do either for the last few decades.
Click to expand...

He left El Salvador when he was 16. Not many 16 year olds know how to file an asylum claim in a foreign country. Nonetheless, I don't disagree that he should have taken action after he became an adult. We don't have the transcript from his immigration hearing to know whether he did or didn't.

I don't think getting hung up on the particulars is even that fruitful. The immigration aspect of this is extremely complicated. To me, this is about civil liberties and due process.

I don't care which party has power. Actually, I take that back...I already assume that Democrats are generally going to be less protective of religious freedom and Second Amendment rights. They're also more likely to protect the rights of criminals over victims. Same goes for abortion -- they aren't big believers in the unborn having many rights.

Both parties are absolutely atrocious when it comes to free speech. And, massively hypocritical.

I can withstand a debate on balancing civil liberties -- or how far to go with rights before you infringe on the rights of others. But, that kind of debate is many galaxies away from what we're discussing here. We're talking about an administration asserting that core civil rights simply don't even exist. That's, uhh, going to be something that I think a LOT of people are going to take issue with. Comparisons are going to be made to the Nazis -- because isolating specific groups and saying they lack civil rights is part and parcel of how they implemented their authoritarian system.

Polling has shown the majority of Americans are completely fine with the deportation of illegal aliens who have committed serious crimes. A smaller number supports the deportation of all illegal aliens. But only 19% support deporting someone who has a family here, 15% support deporting someone who has a job, and just 9% support deporting someone who came here as a child.

Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...-least-some-illegal-immigrants-poll-finds.amp

I wonder what percent support deporting someone who came as a child, was employed, has a family here, and was given zero due process before being deported to a notorious prison for violent criminals in a 3rd world country? Let's throw in violating federal law and a judicial order of protection as the cherries on top of this sundae. I can't imagine it would be particularly popular. Yet this administration has not only double-downed on this case -- the Vice-President himself is trolling people on Twitter about it. A lot of people say JD Vance is very smart. I'm not so sure...
 
Anti Marine Layer said:
I won't make any bets, but you said I'm a person who thinks I'm not a racist because I have Black friends, which is one of the main ways the left uses to classify people as racist.

Other ways they do so is:
  1. If you don't believe that America is a systemically racist country according to the left you are a racist.
  2. According to the left, if you voted for Trump, you're a racist (despite the fact that he had the highest percentage of the Black and Hispanic vote for any Republican in 50 years).
I'm also a conservative Christian though, which not all registered Republicans are. I'm not saying Trump is a great Christian, but at least he defends our freedom of religion while the Democrats do not.

Sure America had slavery and it was horrible. Conservatives do not deny that. But they also know that all cultures had slavery and it was the very ideas from our Declaration of Independence and the Constitution that eventually led to the abolition of slavery, which the abolitionists, such as Frederick Douglass, claim themselves. Most of the abolitionists were Christians too, and up until the 1960s it was mainly the Democrats who kept segregation and Jim Crow going and created the KKK. They were always the less religious of the two parties.

After the Civil Rights Act was passed, the Democrats had to start a new strategy to keep the Black people poor and dependent and that was the welfare system. Lyndon B. Johnson explains it brilliantly: “I’ll have those n****s vote Democrat for the next 200 years.” and “These Negroes, they get pretty uppity these days and that’s a problem for us……….we’ve got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference.”

The left thinks they can solve racism by teaching White kids in school that they are oppressors and that Black kids are oppressed and that America is a horrible country. All that does it creates more division and more racism.

Venezuela used the same strategy to become the socialist hellhole it is today. It all started with tearing down statues, like we had after George Floyd died.
Click to expand...

Thank goodness the United States of America isn't going around threatening to invade Canada and Greenland, or punishing our allies with tariffs. Wouldn't want anyone to think we use our military and economic strength to oppress others.
 
Tariffs on fentanyl! That'll show 'em.

Thank you, Mr. President.

1743609217635.png
 
MAGA aren't Reagan Republicans.

Radio Address to the Nation on the Canadian Elections and Free Trade

112688a
www.reaganlibrary.gov www.reaganlibrary.gov

Our peaceful trading partners are not our enemies; they are our allies. We should beware of the demagogs who are ready to declare a trade war against our friends -- weakening our economy, our national security, and the entire free world -- all while cynically waving the American flag. The expansion of the international economy is not a foreign invasion; it is an American triumph, one we worked hard to achieve, and something central to our vision of a peaceful and prosperous world of freedom.
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Mike S said:
MAGA aren't Reagan Republicans.

Radio Address to the Nation on the Canadian Elections and Free Trade

112688a
www.reaganlibrary.gov www.reaganlibrary.gov
Click to expand...

Sorry, Mike, but I think you would be better suited working in a spatula factory.

Why would we want to waste skilled American labor on high-margin services and goods when we can, instead, manufacture low-margin lamps, rugs, and kitchen utensils?

I guess I'm just confused. Why wouldn't we want to focus on spatulas? Everyone needs spatulas! Not everyone needs business consulting or rocket engines. It is very elitist to say we should ignore the spatula market.
 
Evan said:
Sorry, Mike, but I think you would be better suited working in a spatula factory.

Why would we want to waste skilled American labor on high-margin services and goods when we can, instead, manufacture low-margin lamps, rugs, and kitchen utensils?

I guess I'm just confused. Why wouldn't we want to focus on spatulas? Everyone needs spatulas! Not everyone needs business consulting or rocket engines. It is very elitist to say we should ignore the spatula market.
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Are we talking solid spatulas or slotted ones? And are we simply manufacturing them, or are we also engineering them? Imagine what a rocket scientist could do to improve spatula performance.
 
Well, he did it...
 
gangstonc said:
I like how the tariffs they listed on their posters aren’t the actual tariff rates that other countries are charging us. It’s the trade deficit (on goods) divided by the country’s exports to us.

They lie about EVERYTHING.
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Oh my god, seriously?! The level of stupidity and total lack of understanding here is mindboggling
 
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