Significant Tornado Events

[pohnpei]

So many older events (New Richmond, Fergus Falls, Sherman, Tri-State) are said to have ripped railroads from the ground but I've never been able to find photographs of this. This photo you've presented here looks a lot like Chapman, KS 2016 in terms of deforming rails instead of ripping them up. Are rails designed differently nowadays they can't be ripped up?

The rails damage of Chapman was much longer, almost matching the width of the tornado's core itself and there was little debris left around that place. I believe the tornaodo winds itself push forward the entire rail. The rails damage showed in this picture seems to be mainly debris impact as there were debris left around the deforming part and the deforming part was also not long.

 

[Marshal79344]

So many older events (New Richmond, Fergus Falls, Sherman, Tri-State) are said to have ripped railroads from the ground but I've never been able to find photographs of this. This photo you've presented here looks a lot like Chapman, KS 2016 in terms of deforming rails instead of ripping them up. Are rails designed differently nowadays they can't be ripped up?

Railroad construction back then was significantly substandard to what it is now, which makes Chapman's achievements all the more stunning. That thing was an extremely violent tornado and would have easily gotten an EF5 rating had it not veered south of Chapman.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

I always found it weird how in the NCDC database the ratings from the Palm Sunday outbreak are very conservative. Usually the ratings from that era are liberal such as the 1966 Belmond “F5.” There are some tornadoes that are rated as an F2 in the official database that in reality did near-F4 damage during the outbreak.

Yeah it's weird that that day officially has 17 F4s and not a single F5 when easily 5-6 tornadoes did F5 damage that day.

 

[speedbump305]

The rails damage of Chapman was much longer, almost matching the width of the tornado's core itself and there was little debris left around that place. It believe the tornaodo winds itself push forward the entire rail. The rails damage showed in this picture seems to be mainly debris impact as there were debris left around the deforming part and the deforming part was also not long.

The Rail damage in Chapman has got to be one of the most impressive tornado damage ever recorded. rail roads are incredibly strong to damage or bend and the fact chapman did it to modern newer railroads really tells us how strong it really was

 

[Marshal79344]

Chapman was another classic example of a supercell riding the warm front and benefiting from enhanced streamwise vorticity due to the position of the parent supercell. The rather low wind shear values don't matter when you have an updraft profile that vertical, and that much streamwise vorticity, coupled with enhanced turning from the warm front.



The Chapman Tornadogenesis sequence on radar:

 

[Marshal79344]

Chapman was another classic example of a supercell riding the warm front and benefiting from enhanced streamwise vorticity due to the position of the parent supercell. The rather low wind shear values don't matter when you have an updraft profile that vertical, and that much streamwise vorticity, coupled with enhanced turning from the warm front.

View attachment 7231

The Chapman Tornadogenesis sequence on radar:
View attachment 7232View attachment 7236View attachment 7233View attachment 7234

I mapped out the exact path of the tornado using satellite imagery. It had one of the most erratic damage paths of any tornado I've seen. This is textbook of the Plains, where there isn't strong upper-level support to have fast-moving, straight path tornadoes.




One more fun fact about the Tornado History of Chapman, Kansas, the EF3 tornado of June 11, 2008 (which hit the town directly) passed directly over the path of the 2016 EF4

2008


2016

 

[Marshal79344]

I mapped out the exact path of the tornado using satellite imagery. It had one of the most erratic damage paths of any tornado I've seen. This is textbook of the Plains, where there isn't strong upper-level support to have fast-moving, straight path tornadoes.

View attachment 7237
View attachment 7240

One more fun fact about the Tornado History of Chapman, Kansas, the EF3 tornado of June 11, 2008 (which hit the town directly) passed directly over the path of the 2016 EF4

2008
View attachment 7241

2016View attachment 7242

Lastly, follow up to my previous post, but the 2008 Tornado was just another example of a likely violent tornado that hit almost nothing until towards the end of its life. The Chapman EF3 was the second of 3 intense tornadoes to come from the same supercell thunderstorm in Kansas on June 11, 2008, which is seen by many as the culmination of the endless tornado rampage from January till June of that year.

The debris ball after the tornado struck Chapman:


Aerial Photos of the tornado's damage path:





Ground photos

 

[locomusic01]

Yeah I'm pretty sure it was Rockingham, due to that tornado's track right over a railroad as it headed for Philadelphia and Rockingham. However, it could have also been the one that hit the Cahaba Valley and Leeds area, as I found an account depicting the path crossing over a railroad for a long period of time, completely denuding and debarking trees in the area. Most of the other violent tornadoes that day were in quite rural areas, for example the northern Georgia Mountains and the Piedmont, AL area (another local major tornado magnet)

Some of the descriptions of that tornado (which, unfortunately, are all we have to go on) are among the most impressive I've ever read. 'Course, whether they're all true and accurate or not is another matter, but still. Also pretty significant that one man who had previously seen the aftermath in Grinnell, IA in 1882 (itself an extremely intense F5) said the damage in the Philadelphia Church/Rockingham area was even worse. If I could go back and survey any historical tornado, that would honestly be somewhere on my list.

I always found it weird how in the NCDC database the ratings from the Palm Sunday outbreak are very conservative. Usually the ratings from that era are liberal such as the 1966 Belmond “F5.” There are some tornadoes that are rated as an F2 in the official database that in reality did near-F4 damage during the outbreak.

Yeah it's weird that that day officially has 17 F4s and not a single F5 when easily 5-6 tornadoes did F5 damage that day.

Oof, don't get me started on the Palm Sunday ratings. There are a ton of them that I find really questionable. Not the least of which being, how in the world is Sunnyside anything other than an absolute no-doubt F5? At least Grazulis got it right. There are several others that would definitely have warranted consideration, but Sunnyside is just egregious.

 

[Equus]

I elaborated more about railroad construction changes over the years before on the thread back on the old TW, but yeah, you probably don't see that much anymore because of the change in how rails are laid. Modern rails are laid in very long lengths, sometimes a quarter mile long or longer (surprisingly it bends rather well in curves as it's transported to the site on long trains of flat cars) and thermite-welded to the next piece, making rather unbroken strands of rails numerous miles long. It also weighs over 100lbs per yard, generally 130lbs or so for mainline rails. In the olden days, when rails were often reported damaged by tornadoes, rails were laid in short sections and simply jointed together by a plate and a few bolts, and weighed about half as much, sometimes 40-60lbs per yard even on mainlines. Also, railroad abandonment has been incredible, with thousands and thousands of miles removed since then. So now we have rail twice as heavy and thermite-welded together, and half as much of that to hit. Add to the fact that it's now laid by machine rather than manpower, and it's easier to see how rail damage was a lot more common back in the earlier days. Chapman was incredible because it's the only example of modern CWR (continuously welded rail) damaged as far as I know.

 

[locomusic01]

There are several others that would definitely have warranted consideration, but Sunnyside is just egregious.

I mean, come on now. If you tear a John Deere in half, you gain automatic entry into the F5 club. Those are just the rules.

Another tractor having a very bad day, this one thrown more than half a mile:

A bus, or at least what little is left of one:

Pretty good case to be made that Sunnyside was the most violent tornado of the outbreak, which is saying something.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

I mean, come on now. If you tear a John Deere in half, you gain automatic entry into the F5 club. Those are just the rules.

Another tractor having a very bad day, this one thrown more than half a mile:

A bus, or at least what little is left of one:

Pretty good case to be made that Sunnyside was the most violent tornado of the outbreak, which is saying something.

This thing seems to have done severe ground scouring too.

Also, this pic:


Good lord, how is this not F5 worthy?

 

[pohnpei]

I elaborated more about railroad construction changes over the years before on the thread back on the old TW, but yeah, you probably don't see that much anymore because of the change in how rails are laid. Modern rails are laid in very long lengths, sometimes a quarter mile long or longer (surprisingly it bends rather well in curves as it's transported to the site on long trains of flat cars) and thermite-welded to the next piece, making rather unbroken strands of rails numerous miles long. It also weighs over 100lbs per yard, generally 130lbs or so for mainline rails. In the olden days, when rails were often reported damaged by tornadoes, rails were laid in short sections and simply jointed together by a plate and a few bolts, and weighed about half as much, sometimes 40-60lbs per yard even on mainlines. Also, railroad abandonment has been incredible, with thousands and thousands of miles removed since then. So now we have rail twice as heavy and thermite-welded together, and half as much of that to hit. Add to the fact that it's now laid by machine rather than manpower, and it's easier to see how rail damage was a lot more common back in the earlier days. Chapman was incredible because it's the only example of modern CWR (continuously welded rail) damaged as far as I know.

I think the CWR damage made by Chapman was at US 40 when the tornado was about to swept that entire farmstead area.
I find some tree damages west of US 40. Trees were completely denuded in the open field with no debris loading at all!

also the shrub damage east of US 40 along the EF4 house damge. It was just powerful.

And of course, the entire farmstead area east of US 40, very well constructed house, large trees, every single vehicle, heavy machines, everything above the ground just totally blown away and carried downwind.

 

[pohnpei]

I mean, come on now. If you tear a John Deere in half, you gain automatic entry into the F5 club. Those are just the rules.

Another tractor having a very bad day, this one thrown more than half a mile:

A bus, or at least what little is left of one:

Pretty good case to be made that Sunnyside was the most violent tornado of the outbreak, which is saying something.

I think this was the most severe tractor damage made by tornados I have seen. I once heard someone said Trousdale KS tornado 2007 smashed combine or tractor into pieces but never seen the photo of it.
That John Deere tear in half damage remind me of goldsby 2011 tearing a harvest in half and tossed uphill 180 yards.

 

[locomusic01]

Good lord, how is this not F5 worthy?

Pittsfield-Strongsville, Lebanon-Sheridan, Kokomo-Greentown and Coldwater Lake-Manitou Beach all have compelling cases as well, to varying degrees. Tbh we should probably just give Coldwater Lake an F5 purely on its monstrous appearance:

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

I think this was the most severe tractor damage made by tornados I have seen. I once heard someone said Trousdale KS tornado 2007 smashed combine or tractor into pieces but never see the photo of it.

Chapman 2016 absolutely mangled every vehicle it encountered, it smashed a ton of combines and tractors to pieces too.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Pittsfield-Strongsville, Lebanon-Sheridan, Kokomo-Greentown and Coldwater Lake-Manitou Beach all have compelling cases as well, to varying degrees. Tbh we should probably just give Coldwater Lake an F5 purely on its monstrous appearance:

That tornado that hit La Paz, IN got smacked with an F3 rating when, based on some pictures, it probably was at least F4 (and possibly F5) at some points. It's a mystery as to why 2 tornadoes of this day got downgraded from F5 to F4.

 

[A Guy]

A couple more Landsat mosaics:

In comparison to the Guin tornado, the track of the Jasper tornado doesn't show up nearly as well. Consistent with its F-scale ratings it only becomes strong after entering Tuscaloosa Co. (unfortunately the site won't export the label overlay), and is weakening when it enters Jasper. I can't really trace it after Jasper though it supposedly continued up to Cullman.




Hardin-Maury Co. TN 16 May 1998. The Wayne County tornado left a very impressively contrasting scar.



Anyway, you get the idea that Landsat is a pretty good tool.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

I think this was the most severe tractor damage made by tornados I have seen. I once heard someone said Trousdale KS tornado 2007 smashed combine or tractor into pieces but never see the photo of it.
That John Deere tear in half damage remind me of goldsby 2011 tearing a harvest in half and tossed uphill 180 yards.
View attachment 7260

I'd love to find damage pics from Trousdale. I have a feeling it may have been like Glazier-Higgins-Woodward only it didn't actually hit anything.

 

[andyhb]

The fact that none of the tornadoes in the Palm Sunday event are officially documented F5s while silly cases like Vicksburg '53, Belmond '66, Wheelersburg '68, Valley Mills '73, Spiro '76, and Broken Bow '82 are is just more proof of how inconsistent everything about that entire period pre-1985 is in terms of ratings (and why Grazulis is usually a better source for ratings).

 

[speedbump305]

Just curious y’all, does anyone know if it’s uncommon for EF5 tornadoes to do damage to anchor bolts, i’ve heard about EF4s that were able to bend anchor bolts, Henryville being one and i’ve heard that Ellie snapped anchors, Is it really hard for EF5s and the strongest EF4s to do this?