Significant Tornado Events

[buckeye05]

So we’re hurling insults now? Also there is grass scouring in the back lawn of the 2nd farmstead

Oh wow look at those pixels. That sure is conclusive.

 

[SweptSlab5]

Grass scouring caused by the Gary, SD EF3 tornado. And for the second part, one of the homes had an abundance of cut nails usages as its anchoring so EF5 is out of the window for that home. The third photo home has the bolts too spaced out. The fourth photo home, not only theres quite a bit of debris left on the foundation, there's also shrubbery left unaffected. Not too mention some of these homes likely had garage failure

Where in the world is Their backyard, the whole field? The scouring is behind the tree line, not in the yard.

 

[GrenadinesDes]

1.) That take on scouring is a steaming pile of absolute stinking bs. Grass scouring, and specifically lawn scouring, is highly correlated to tornadoes of extreme intensity. I just typed out a multi paragraph post on how I’ve been cataloging every violent, hell, every intense tornado of my life time, and many prior. While a lot of scouring (like farm field scouring) is overhyped, instances the scouring and removal of all surface vegetation, particularly lawn grass, only occurs in the immediate vicinity of very high end damage. It’s not like you ever see properties with basically no grass left, and the house left in an unswept heap or with walls intact, barring some western/central Oklahoma counties where the ground is more scour prone. It otherwise simply does not happen.

If I were to put together a statistical analysis of every tornado that scoured grassy surfaces, especially lawns, down to exposed dirt, the correlation between this occurrence and high-end events would be undeniable. I am sick and tired of people throwing out these dismissive generalizations without even coming close to having amassed the amount of observational note taking on instances of grass scouring that I have, over the course of a decade and a half of note taking to boot. There’s a reason why people like LaDue and Marshall still consider it a high-end hallmark. You clearly think you’re really saying something big and well-informed, but trust me, you’re not. I literally cannot express how big the disparity is between the validity you think your stance has, and how little it has in reality. Abysmally stupid take, and I can’t stress that enough.

2.) Debris loading is only a significant factor in putting less weight in contextual damage if it can be linked to a specific airborne material. All significant tornadoes that impact semi-populated are debris loaded. If there’s no specific link to a specific airborne material, the debris loading argument is a vague generalization soaked nothing burger.

Ground Scouring is unreliable due to several factors going into them, like, what's soil type of the area that got hit? how tough is it? how dry was it before the tornado? Also Debris loaded is not a "nothing burger" argument, you could LITERALLY see debris pilled up on the base of trees near the trains, debris loading can make tree damage look worse, its the reason why debarking is being removed in the future revised scale, its flawed.

 

[buckeye05]

This guy is an embarrassment.

 

[GrenadinesDes]

This guy is an embarrassment.

You know, you don't have to be a complete jackass in order to be engaged in a civil conversation

 

[SweptSlab5]

Ground Scouring is unreliable due to several factors going into them, like, what's soil type of the area that got hit? how tough is it? how dry was it before the tornado? Also Debris loaded is not a "nothing burger" argument, you could LITERALLY see debris pilled up on the base of trees near the trains, debris loading can make tree damage look worse, its the reason why debarking is being removed in the future revised scale, its flawed.

Dude, how clueless can you get? Do you just throw out debarking in tornadoes like Moore or Joplin, where trees were so debarked they were shining in the light? Any area that isn’t nowhere will have debris loading.

 

[tornadowatch211]

So were hurling insults now? Also there is grass scouring in the back lawn of the 2nd farmstead

This “grass scouring” happens in EF1s lmfao (8/24/2016 is the single best example) Crops are just flattened, not ripped out like genuine scouring
Only time its legit impressive is when the crops are legitimately ripped out of the ground (Tri-State, Plainfield (debatable)). Those are the only 2 I can name off the top of my head.

Also the dude that kept fighting 40 years after WW2 ended

 

[GrenadinesDes]

View attachment 49301

Oh wow look at those pixels. That sure is conclusive.

The area I circled for where im referring to when it comes to the backyard scouring part

 

[speedbump305]

Examples of high end tornadoes that caused extreme ground scouring/grass scouring of lawn grass:

Bremen, KY 2021.


Vilonia, AR 2014


And the true benchmark of what extremely intense lawn scouring of grass looks like…
Chickasha/Blanchard, OK 2011.

Notice how all of these tornadoes caused exceptionally high end damage apart from ground scouring as well. It’s not up for debate that the examples above show scouring that truly only happens in high end events.

 

[GrenadinesDes]

Dude, how clueless can you get? Do you just throw out debarking in tornadoes like Moore or Joplin, where trees were so debarked they were shining in the light? Any area that isn’t nowhere will have debris loading.

Because tree debarking is just as unreliable as ground scouring, I personally dont care if you find that statement rage inducing. Overall, Rochelle has no EF5 damage evidence

 

[speedbump305]

Because tree debarking is just as unreliable as ground scouring, I personally dont care if you find that statement rage inducing. Overall, Rochelle has no EF5 damage evidence

Dude, what do you mean? Rochelle literally scoured lawn grass to bare soil and wind rowed/granulated debris. No ordinary tornado can just cause that amount of damage without being exceptionally intense. Plus, do you have any idea how much force it takes to move a concrete walkway? Like come on man. Factor in some contextual clues.

 

[buckeye05]

Ground Scouring is unreliable due to several factors going into them, like, what's soil type of the area that got hit? how tough is it? how dry was it before the tornado? Also Debris loaded is not a "nothing burger" argument, you could LITERALLY see debris pilled up on the base of trees near the trains, debris loading can make tree damage look worse, its the reason why debarking is being removed in the future revised scale, its flawed.

1.) I literally just addressed that first point. Sure in western Oklahoma soils it can happen at lower intensity levels. But 90 percent of the time, severe grass scouring, not just ground scouring in general, only happens within the immediate vicinity of thoroughly obliterated high end EF4 or EF5 structures. I’ve been looking into this topic for 14 years, and there are virtually no exceptions to this rule. It’s incredibly consistent and that is what you are failing to understand. What matters most is what actually happens in real life and the statistical consistency of it, more so than the theoretical factors that could potentially cause variability.

2.) You’re not understanding the point I made about debris loading. The train tracks example IS a valid example of debris loading exacerbated contextual damage, because it’s clearly linked to the obliteration of nearby homes. It’s a nothing burger when there is no specific debris or destroyed building linked to the debarking, and it is attributed to debris loading in a nebulous, ambiguous manner.

 

[Lake Martin EF4]

Me: posts Holly Springs post and briefly mentions Rochelle
The forum: [Baker Crossroads GIF]

 

[speedbump305]

Also; Oklahoma soil is very scour prone and takes a very intense/high end tornado to cause the level of ground scouring the Chickasha EF4 inflicted. It’s not really up for debate man.

 

[GrenadinesDes]

Dude, what do you mean? Rochelle literally scoured lawn grass to bare soil and wind rowed/granulated debris. Plus, do you have any idea how much force it takes to move a concrete walkway? Like come on man. Factor in some contextual clues.

Oh my god windrowing... thats a terrible contextual, literally any tornadoes significant enough can windrow, the construction quality really matter, and construction quality of Rochelle wasn't great at all. "Granulated debris" didn't happen with Rochelle. And again, literally an EF4 tornado can lawn scour to bare soil, like Chickasha. Cookeville plucked out concrete walkways from a home so not really extreme.

 

[tornadowatch211]

Explain these instances of debarking then:
Piedmont (How did it get torn off? The debris does jack because it was powderized lmao)
BCM (Wheres the house debris?)
Jarrell (Whats the debris gonna do?)

Tri-State:

Plus we know all the tree species the tornadoes hit lmao (mesquite for first 3, persimmon and sassafras for 4 (both over 2000 on Janka scale)

Because tree debarking is just as unreliable as ground scouring, I personally dont care if you find that statement rage inducing. Overall, Rochelle has no EF5 damage evidence

 

[speedbump305]

Oh my god windrowing... thats a terrible contextual, literally any tornadoes significant enough can windrow, the construction quality really matter, and construction quality of Rochelle wasn't great at all. "Granulated debris" didn't happen with Rochelle. And again, literally an EF4 tornado can lawn scour to bare soil, like Chickasha. Cookeville plucked out concrete walkways from a home so not really extreme.

Dude. Rochelle literally did granulate debris. Sure, it may have not been the most extraordinary granulation we’ve seen, but it was no doubt indicative of a tornado of very high end intensity. Also, Chickasha was by no means an EF4 caliber tornado. The contextual damage produced from that monster was undoubtedly WELL into the EF5 range.

 

[buckeye05]

The area I circled for where im referring to when it comes to the backyard scouring part

This picture shows nothing. Give me one valid, high resolution, ground level counter point image showing lawn grass scoured to bare soil within the direct path of a structure that isn’t completely blown to smithereens. Good luck.

 

[buckeye05]

Oh my god windrowing... thats a terrible contextual, literally any tornadoes significant enough can windrow, the construction quality really matter, and construction quality of Rochelle wasn't great at all. "Granulated debris" didn't happen with Rochelle. And again, literally an EF4 tornado can lawn scour to bare soil, like Chickasha. Cookeville plucked out concrete walkways from a home so not really extreme.

Chickasha is a default EF4 and a very high-end one, and was strongly suspected of containing EF5 winds by the surveyors who were involved. DAT even calls it “plausible EF5”. You couldn’t come up with a worse counter point if you tried.

 

[speedbump305]

Oh my god windrowing... thats a terrible contextual, literally any tornadoes significant enough can windrow, the construction quality really matter, and construction quality of Rochelle wasn't great at all. "Granulated debris" didn't happen with Rochelle. And again, literally an EF4 tornado can lawn scour to bare soil, like Chickasha. Cookeville plucked out concrete walkways from a home so not really extreme.

Also how is wind rowing a terrible example of contextual damage? Incase you’ve forgotten, look up some damage photos of Niles OH, Andover, KS, and Vilonia, AR and you’ll see some of the most extreme examples of wind rowing ever. It doesn’t just happen in every strong/violent tornado. It is without a doubt a very good sign of a high end tornado.