Significant Tornado Events

[atrainguy]

Here is what the scar looked like after the tornado occurred. It was probably stronger than F2.
View attachment 17806

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Kinda hard to tell, but that looks like possible debarking in the bottom pic? Maybe the background of the second one as well.

 

[MNTornadoGuy]

Kinda hard to tell, but that looks like possible debarking in the bottom pic? Maybe the background of the second one as well.

Definitely stripped trees but it is hard to tell if there is any debarking due to the low quality.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Yeah, Kellerville. I've seen that claim a bunch of times but I don't think it's ever been substantiated as far as I know. What a fascinating tornado, though. I would love to get my hands on the hundreds of aerial photos from the damage survey.

Well, considering Bakersfield Valley threw 3 oil tanks 3 miles it wouldn't surprise me if tornadoes that occur in desolate areas out west with flat terrain and few structures could carry vehicles up to 2 miles out there, but yeah, wish it could be substantiated. Wish those surveys of 6/8/95 weren't "accidentally" discarded so we could know for sure.

 

[locomusic01]

Well, considering Bakersfield Valley threw 3 oil tanks 3 miles it wouldn't surprise me if tornadoes that occur in desolate areas out west with flat terrain and few structures could carry vehicles up to 2 miles out there, but yeah, wish it could be substantiated. Wish those surveys of 6/8/95 weren't "accidentally" discarded so we could know for sure.

Not "threw" so much as "rolled/bounced," but still pretty damn impressive considering they were full and each weighed like 75 tons or something.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Not "threw" so much as "rolled/bounced," but still pretty damn impressive considering they were full and each weighed like 75 tons or something.

This brings up another interesting point of discussion; how does one define "movement" of an object via tornado. Thrown in a single toss with no bouncing whatsoever or bounced repeatedly before coming to a resting point. I wonder how many mangled automobiles from tornadoes were lifted and thrown hundreds of yards in a single toss and others that bounced along for the ride being stopping or heavy objects that simply slid across the ground and not picked up.

 

[locomusic01]

This brings up another interesting point of discussion; how does one define "movement" of an object via tornado. Thrown in a single toss with no bouncing whatsoever or bounced repeatedly before coming to a resting point. I wonder how many mangled automobiles from tornadoes were lifted and thrown hundreds of yards in a single toss and others that bounced along for the ride being stopping or heavy objects that simply slid across the ground and not picked up.

Yeah, ideally the source would specify (I try to in my articles whenever possible) but sometimes it can be hard to tell even for the people on the ground. Just intuitively I'd think bouncing/rolling would be more likely to tear cars apart or roll them up into balls while single tosses would be more likely to flatten them like a pancake, but I dunno how true that is. Something like this car, which was thrown about a mile into a shallow pond..

..versus this truck, which IIRC was rolled about half a mile.

I'd say moving a vehicle that kind of distance is rather impressive either way, although I can't even imagine the kind of force it'd take to hurl one a full mile (or more) through the air.

 

[pohnpei]

This brings up another interesting point of discussion; how does one define "movement" of an object via tornado. Thrown in a single toss with no bouncing whatsoever or bounced repeatedly before coming to a resting point. I wonder how many mangled automobiles from tornadoes were lifted and thrown hundreds of yards in a single toss and others that bounced along for the ride being stopping or heavy objects that simply slid across the ground and not picked up.

Yeah, vehicles typically much harder to toll than oil tanks. There were many cases that oil tanks moved(most of them rolled) over one mile but it's still rare to have vehicles moved(whatever rolled or bounced or thrown) over one mile even in flatten field.

There was a research showed that vehicles start to be lifted when tornados are stronger than high end EF3 so one can argue that most vehicles moved by tornados under EF4 level were either rolled or bounced. There were one dozen of vehicles piled up to the sport facility in Andover tornado last year and surveillance showed that all of them were rolled by the tornado from parking lot.(one could argue it's potentially violent, but it probably not at peak intensity near the facility.)

Even in violent tornados, the vehicle research in Parkersburg/Picher/Greensburg showed that only a small portion of vehicles were lifted in the path. It's probably more impressive than people think about to have vehicles moved over 300 yards in one single actually toss. (Even for Mayfield, I can't find one single vehicle moved over 300 yards). It made cases like Smithville or Bridge Creek more impressive. Smithville capable of lifting SUV near 45m from the ground(the height of the water tower) and very likely was a one single toss of 0.92mile. It need excepational strength to do that.
Greensburg:

Picher:

Pakersburg:

 

[Sawmaster]

The Police viseo from Pampa shows 2 pickups about 150ft in the air at the same time, and even after dozens of views, that still shocks me. Unbelievable force involved to do that. And Smithville. A lot of the damage surveys noting moved vehicles (and mobile homes) will state whether they found dents or gouges in the ground to indicate roiling or pushing, and other times when the start point is known and no dents or gouges are found the surveyors conclude tossing or lofting vs rolling.

Once started, it doesn't take a huge force to roll a car and keep it rolling as long as the ground speed of the tornado doesn't outrun the car. Moreso "round" things like oil tanks; you get a feel for that with a leaf blower. But try to blow something upward and see what you get; it just fails. My second tornado experience was stuck in traffic in a van which tilted on two wheels twice with me in it, and that was a EF1 with estimated 80MPH winds. I couldn't see the cars around me, but some of my co-workers in cars got caught in it too, and they reported getting rocked pretty hard when I spoke with them later. Even boxy objects aren't hard to blow across the ground, perhaps bouncing some as they go, but lifting is an order of magnitude farther along.

We tend to think of tornado winds doing damage by blowing outward from the core, but there has to be a balancing 'vacuum' and if it's concentrated enough to lift a car then perhaps that is what is doing the most damage. If we could lay out a closely-spaced grid of sensors along a "usual path" like Tanner AL or Bridge Creek OK and waited, sooner or later we'd get a direct hit and could better analyze those incredible lifting forces and at least quantify their strength. Getting a few strikes like that might take decades but would be quite enlightening.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

The Police viseo from Pampa shows 2 pickups about 150ft in the air at the same time, and even after dozens of views, that still shocks me. Unbelievable force involved to do that. And Smithville. A lot of the damage surveys noting moved vehicles (and mobile homes) will state whether they found dents or gouges in the ground to indicate roiling or pushing, and other times when the start point is known and no dents or gouges are found the surveyors conclude tossing or lofting vs rolling.

Once started, it doesn't take a huge force to roll a car and keep it rolling as long as the ground speed of the tornado doesn't outrun the car. Moreso "round" things like oil tanks; you get a feel for that with a leaf blower. But try to blow something upward and see what you get; it just fails. My second tornado experience was stuck in traffic in a van which tilted on two wheels twice with me in it, and that was a EF1 with estimated 80MPH winds. I couldn't see the cars around me, but some of my co-workers in cars got caught in it too, and they reported getting rocked pretty hard when I spoke with them later. Even boxy objects aren't hard to blow across the ground, perhaps bouncing some as they go, but lifting is an order of magnitude farther along.

We tend to think of tornado winds doing damage by blowing outward from the core, but there has to be a balancing 'vacuum' and if it's concentrated enough to lift a car then perhaps that is what is doing the most damage. If we could lay out a closely-spaced grid of sensors along a "usual path" like Tanner AL or Bridge Creek OK and waited, sooner or later we'd get a direct hit and could better analyze those incredible lifting forces and at least quantify their strength. Getting a few strikes like that might take decades but would be quite enlightening.

Also, it had a moving/delivery van up in the air two around the same as the 2 pickups. There's also another video of it where you can see it throw a car 600 yards or so. I'll have to dig for the video now.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Yeah, ideally the source would specify (I try to in my articles whenever possible) but sometimes it can be hard to tell even for the people on the ground. Just intuitively I'd think bouncing/rolling would be more likely to tear cars apart or roll them up into balls while single tosses would be more likely to flatten them like a pancake, but I dunno how true that is. Something like this car, which was thrown about a mile into a shallow pond..

..versus this truck, which IIRC was rolled about half a mile.

I'd say moving a vehicle that kind of distance is rather impressive either way, although I can't even imagine the kind of force it'd take to hurl one a full mile (or more) through the air.

Also, especially with E/F5 tornadoes the vehicles often disintegrate while in the tornado or while flying through the air, which is arguably even more impressive but makes figuring out distance traveled more or less impossible.
I have a feeling the most extreme tornadoes vehicles are levitated/rotated by intense subvortices before being thrown/mangled/disintegrated, so likely multiple wind gusts are involved here.

 

[locomusic01]

Yeah, vehicles typically much harder to toll than oil tanks. There were many cases that oil tanks moved(most of them rolled) over one mile but it's still rare to have vehicles moved(whatever rolled or bounced or thrown) over one mile even in flatten field.

Also, especially with E/F5 tornadoes the vehicles often disintegrate while in the tornado or while flying through the air, which is arguably even more impressive but makes figuring out distance traveled more or less impossible.

These two things together remind me of something I'd heard about the hilariously underrated Tiffin-Rockaway, OH F3 from Palm Sunday '65. I was never able to confirm it so it didn't make it into my article, but according to some of the local folks, the tornado struck a cement truck and basically tore it to pieces. Oddly though, it was the drum that traveled a relatively short distance (like 100 yards or something IIRC) while the chassis and bits of the drivetrain were scattered like a quarter-mile further. It's been a long time so I'm sure I got some of the specifics wrong - I'll have to go back and check my notes in a bit.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

These two things together remind me of something I'd heard about the hilariously underrated Tiffin-Rockaway, OH F3 from Palm Sunday '65. I was never able to confirm it so it didn't make it into my article, but according to some of the local folks, the tornado struck a cement truck and basically tore it to pieces. Oddly though, it was the drum that traveled a relatively short distance (like 100 yards or something IIRC) while the chassis and bits of the drivetrain were scattered like a quarter-mile further. It's been a long time so I'm sure I got some of the specifics wrong - I'll have to go back and check my notes in a bit.

I can believe it with a cement truck that the drum would be in one piece but everything else would fall apart, given the way they're designed, plus the cylindrical shape of the drum will help the wind go around it, not a lot of surface area.
I know El Reno and Chickasha 2011 disintegrated multiple automobiles and I think Flint did too. Niles-Wheatland definitely did but unfortunately not a lot of pics of vehicle damage from it. Probably one of those things not a lot of people think to photograph.

 

[locomusic01]

The Police viseo from Pampa shows 2 pickups about 150ft in the air at the same time, and even after dozens of views, that still shocks me. Unbelievable force involved to do that. And Smithville. A lot of the damage surveys noting moved vehicles (and mobile homes) will state whether they found dents or gouges in the ground to indicate roiling or pushing, and other times when the start point is known and no dents or gouges are found the surveyors conclude tossing or lofting vs rolling.

This is why I desperately wish I could've found photos of the truck I mentioned from Tionesta. Based on Jack's description, it landed somewhere between three-quarters and eight-tenths of a mile from where he'd parked it, and considering the path between its start and end points was mostly very heavily forested, it seems pretty unlikely that it would've been able to roll or bounce to get there. Some of the intervening forest had been flattened of course, but a fair bit of it had been outside the tornado's path. And if it had sailed up and over the trees the whole way, it would've had to gain altitude pretty damn quickly.

 

[Sawmaster]

I have a feeling the most extreme tornadoes vehicles are levitated/rotated by intense subvortices before being thrown/mangled/disintegrated, so likely multiple wind gusts are involved here.

Very plausible, and why we could learn something from a sensor grid with close enough spacing.

 

[locomusic01]

Sure, throwing a vehicle a mile is impressive and all, but how about hurling a whole herd of cattle four and one-half miles?

 

[buckeye05]

@pohnpei Actually, I think that we are looking at two different properties. In the second and third images the uplifted portion is facing outward, while in the fourth it is facing inward. Such features as the prominent stairwell, the positioning of vegetative objects, etc. are distinctly absent and/or different in the fourth image. Also, in both cases one can clearly see that the foundation itself appears to have been uplifted, along with any subfloor that may have existed and been attached. So it appears that Smithville did this kind of damage to multiple properties.

@buckeye05 @locomusic01 I think these close-ups are more than sufficient to illustrate that a concrete slab has indeed been pulled up.

Regardless if it’s concrete or not, it’s absolutely not two properties. It’s honestly baffling how much thought and analysis (or attempted analysis, rather) that you put into your posts, yet still arrive at completely incorrect, off-base conclusions more often than not. Damage photo analysis just isn’t your forte, and I’m not trying to be mean or anything.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

This is why I desperately wish I could've found photos of the truck I mentioned from Tionesta. Based on Jack's description, it landed somewhere between three-quarters and eight-tenths of a mile from where he'd parked it, and considering the path between its start and end points was mostly very heavily forested, it seems pretty unlikely that it would've been able to roll or bounce to get there. Some of the intervening forest had been flattened of course, but a fair bit of it had been outside the tornado's path. And if it had sailed up and over the trees the whole way, it would've had to gain altitude pretty damn quickly.

The Police viseo from Pampa shows 2 pickups about 150ft in the air at the same time, and even after dozens of views, that still shocks me. Unbelievable force involved to do that. And Smithville. A lot of the damage surveys noting moved vehicles (and mobile homes) will state whether they found dents or gouges in the ground to indicate roiling or pushing, and other times when the start point is known and no dents or gouges are found the surveyors conclude tossing or lofting vs rolling.

Once started, it doesn't take a huge force to roll a car and keep it rolling as long as the ground speed of the tornado doesn't outrun the car. Moreso "round" things like oil tanks; you get a feel for that with a leaf blower. But try to blow something upward and see what you get; it just fails. My second tornado experience was stuck in traffic in a van which tilted on two wheels twice with me in it, and that was a EF1 with estimated 80MPH winds. I couldn't see the cars around me, but some of my co-workers in cars got caught in it too, and they reported getting rocked pretty hard when I spoke with them later. Even boxy objects aren't hard to blow across the ground, perhaps bouncing some as they go, but lifting is an order of magnitude farther along.

We tend to think of tornado winds doing damage by blowing outward from the core, but there has to be a balancing 'vacuum' and if it's concentrated enough to lift a car then perhaps that is what is doing the most damage. If we could lay out a closely-spaced grid of sensors along a "usual path" like Tanner AL or Bridge Creek OK and waited, sooner or later we'd get a direct hit and could better analyze those incredible lifting forces and at least quantify their strength. Getting a few strikes like that might take decades but would be quite enlightening.

On the topic of Pampa this video shows some incredible feats that it did that are easy to miss (and demonstrate why this thing should've rated F5, and not F4).

This is a video from Doswell and another chaser. They capture the touchdown and the tornado tearing through the town, I wish I could find the whole video of this. Anyways, the tornado enters the industrial park and you can hear the sound of what I think is the steel frame of a massive factory/warehouse buckling. At around 1:20 or so you can see a very large object appear in the tornado's lower left and it completely disintegrates by 1:21. It's like magic.




This pic is when I think it hit the car dealership/store facility. At 2:05 in the vid you can see what I'm pretty sure is a car go flying from the lower right of the funnel, appears to go 600 yards or so.




This last pic, at 2:15 in the vid I'm pretty sure it's the 60 ft. girder/sheet metal roof to the warehouse it destroyed. Note how it is centrifuged completely around the bottom and thrown to the Earth at very rapid speed:





Video below:



Another video compilation, the last vid by Allen Lewis is a parallel view of the final moments of the video above. At 9:10 or so in the vid you can see the lower of the right of the tornado the aforementioned steel girder/warehouse roof being lofted.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

Regardless if it’s concrete or not, it’s absolutely not two properties. It’s honestly baffling how much thought and analysis (or attempted analysis, rather) that you put into your posts, yet still arrive at completely incorrect, off-base conclusions more often than not. Damage photo analysis just isn’t your forte, and I’m not trying to be mean or anything.

At this point, I'm just gonna put him on ignore, like another certain user of this page.

 

[Juliett Bravo Kilo]

A lot of them were dirt roads, though there was very extensive scouring where the tornado crossed CR 308, CR 305 & CR 307. IIRC the longest single swath was like 500 ft, but CR 305 especially was scoured in multiple places. In any case, it's definitely the most complete and widespread asphalt scouring I can think of in any tornado.

Anyway, some more random Jarrell stuff since we're still on the topic. I can't remember if this used to be a dump truck or semi-truck - I think the former?

Another truck that had a no good, very bad day:

Hardly a blade of grass to be found:

On the Tonn farm near CR 304, the roof of the storm cellar was torn off (though I'm not sure it was all that secure by the look of it):

A few more photos from the Tonn farm:

The Moehring family home before the tornado:

I swear, some of the shots from Jarrell look straight out of the Battle of Passchendaele:

Sorry to retread but these other 2 pics of Jarrell do justice to the "battlefield" comparison:





Just, complete desolation. Unreal.

 

[pohnpei]

Sorry to retread but these other 2 pics of Jarrell do justice to the "battlefield" comparison:
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View attachment 17841

Just, complete desolation. Unreal.

The left side of first pic was likely remains of a vehicle? Things mangled so completely that hard to distinguish.