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Significant Tornado Events (2 Viewers)


Messages
38
Location
Raleigh, NC
Some photos of extreme vehicle damage done by the Hesston, KS 1990 F5
hesston1990vehicle.jpg
This photo(below) was all that remained of a pickup truck originating from a property outside of town. This might be the disintegrated pickup mentioned in the March 1990 storm data, though that apparently occurred 8 miles SW of town.
hesstonks1990vehicle2.jpg
Some more from in Hesston(believe the third photo is the same vehicle as in the first photo)
hesstonksvehicledamage2.jpg
This was all that remained of the cement factory seen in the infamous video
hesstonksconcrete.jpg
This is a view of the cul de sac where F5 damage occurred in town, though it's hard to make out any detail. The description mentions the subflooring of the homes was ripped away as well.
HesstonKS1990culdesac.jpg

Photos courtesy of the Hesston Public Library's 1990 Hesston Tornado Collection
 
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Messages
38
Location
Raleigh, NC
And, most interesting to me, some photos from the Goessel, KS area. Really, the only photographs I've ever seen from that tornado.
hesstonKS1990housedamage.jpg
hesstonKSdamage.jpg
hesstonvehicle3.jpg
Some more from Hesston
hesstonks1990tree.jpg
HesstonKStornado19902.jpg
HesstonKStornadoF5.jpg

I mislabeled the top three as from Hesston, but they're from Goessel. Sourced from the same collection mentioned in the post above. I'd recommend checking that collection out. There are some videos that show the most comprehensive aerial footage I've seen of the town after the storm. In the storm data from March 1990, there's also mention of a chain link fence, rooted in concrete, that was moved twenty feet, creating a narrow trench in the ground. There's a photo of that in the collection as well that I won't post so as not to clutter the thread more than I already have.
 
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Messages
346
Location
Lenexa, KS
To me, this suggests that there ought to be better communication between the NWS and the local community during the process of surveying. I know people who have had their homes destroyed have bigger things to worry about than the EF rating of the tornado, but if people were aware of these potential damage indicators that the surveyors missed, it suggests that there was a gap in communication that needs to be bridged.
You could have pointed out 50 house with EF5 damage with contextual evidence to John Robinson and it still would have gotten rated a high-end EF4. This guy probably would have rated tornadoes like Jarrell, TX and Smithville, MS high-end E/F4. Though I would hope if something like that ever happened there would be intervention.
 

warneagle

Member
Messages
2,047
Location
Arlington, VA
Special Affiliations
SKYWARN® Volunteer
You could have pointed out 50 house with EF5 damage with contextual evidence to John Robinson and it still would have gotten rated a high-end EF4. This guy probably would have rated tornadoes like Jarrell, TX and Smithville, MS high-end E/F4. Though I would hope if something like that ever happened there would be intervention.
I'm sure they could come up with some galaxy-brain logic about Jarrell being too slow-moving like they did with Harper. I'm honestly shocked Joplin was rated EF5. It was a lot less impressive than some of the tornadoes that got left at high-end EF4.
 
Messages
294
Location
Missouri
And, most interesting to me, some photos from the Goessel, KS area. Really, the only photographs I've ever seen from that tornado.
View attachment 3868
View attachment 3869
View attachment 3870
Some more from Hesston
View attachment 3871
View attachment 3872
View attachment 3873

I mislabeled the top three as from Hesston, but they're from Goessel. Sourced from the same collection mentioned in the post above. I'd recommend checking that collection out. There are some videos that show the most comprehensive aerial footage I've seen of the town after the storm. In the storm data from March 1990, there's also mention of a chain link fence, rooted in concrete, that was moved twenty feet, creating a narrow trench in the ground. There's a photo of that in the collection as well that I won't post so as not to clutter the thread more than I already have.
Holy crap, Hesston seems to have done some ground scouring and quite impressive vehicle damage, and the almost complete sweeping away of the cement factory is pretty crazy (assuming it was well-constructed). Would love to get more information on the Goessel tornado, still not quite sure why Fujita gave it an F5 rating.
 
Messages
346
Location
Lenexa, KS
I'm sure they could come up with some galaxy-brain logic about Jarrell being too slow-moving like they did with Harper. I'm honestly shocked Joplin was rated EF5. It was a lot less impressive than some of the tornadoes that got left at high-end EF4.
I believe the Joplin tornado deserves an EF5 rating but there have been a number of high-end EF4's that were as EF5 worthy if not more so as Joplin. They include Chickasha, Goldsby, Vilonia, Rochelle, and Chapman.
 
Messages
346
Location
Lenexa, KS
Holy crap, Hesston seems to have done some ground scouring and quite impressive vehicle damage, and the almost complete sweeping away of the cement factory is pretty crazy (assuming it was well-constructed). Would love to get more information on the Goessel tornado, still not quite sure why Fujita gave it an F5 rating.
I am not exactly sure of the Hesston, KS tornado either though if I had to pick which one deserved an F5 rating it would be that one. It is still kind of sketchy though.
 
Messages
294
Location
Missouri
I'm sure they could come up with some galaxy-brain logic about Jarrell being too slow-moving like they did with Harper. I'm honestly shocked Joplin was rated EF5. It was a lot less impressive than some of the tornadoes that got left at high-end EF4.
Joplin blew out concrete basement walls in a couple of homes and was able to damage a tall hospital beyond repair; it actually shifted the concrete rebar-reinforced foundation several inches off its base and left the hospital in such bad condition it had to be torn down; I'd say that's definitely EF5 worthy.
 
Messages
38
Location
Raleigh, NC
I am not exactly sure of the Hesston, KS tornado either though if I had to pick which one deserved an F5 rating it would be that one. It is still kind of sketchy though.
Yeah, I think it'd be pretty borderline today. But the vehicle damage and the fact that it was supposedly more intense to the SW are points in its favor. I'd group it alongside Greensburg as a tornado that was quite likely more intense outside of the large(ish) town that it hit, but still high end EF4/F4 in that town. I just wish there were a better view of the cul de sac that was completely swept away. And any view of the damage near Burton, KS(8 miles SW) where it was, by all accounts, very very intense.
 
Messages
440
Location
Niagara Falls, Ontario
You could have pointed out 50 house with EF5 damage with contextual evidence to John Robinson and it still would have gotten rated a high-end EF4. This guy probably would have rated tornadoes like Jarrell, TX and Smithville, MS high-end E/F4. Though I would hope if something like that ever happened there would be intervention.
I'm not even joking when I say that there really were meteorologists who wanted to rate Jarrell as an F3 because of the fact that it was slow-moving. As far as I know that was also the only reason the 5/12/04 Harper, KS tornado wasn't rated F5.
 
Messages
346
Location
Lenexa, KS
Yeah, I think it'd be pretty borderline today. But the vehicle damage and the fact that it was supposedly more intense to the SW are points in its favor. I'd group it alongside Greensburg as a tornado that was quite likely more intense outside of the large(ish) town that it hit, but still high end EF4/F4 in that town. I just wish there were a better view of the cul de sac that was completely swept away. And any view of the damage near Burton, KS(8 miles SW) where it was, by all accounts, very very intense.
Yeah, it was pretty incredible as it was 3/4 mile-wide and caused like low-end F4 damage and when it narrowed to around 300 yards wide it caused at least high-end F4 damage.
 
Messages
346
Location
Lenexa, KS
I'm not even joking when I say that there really were meteorologists who wanted to rate Jarrell as an F3 because of the fact that it was slow-moving. As far as I know that was also the only reason the 5/12/04 Harper, KS tornado wasn't rated F5.
Who would only rate that F3? The F5 rating is backed by Tim Marshall.
 
Messages
38
Location
Raleigh, NC
Goessel is such an unknown that I refrain from judgement. Who knows? There could've been insane damage but it's lost to time. Jarrell was an F5 and a half. It blows my mind that anyone could possibly think F3 was the appropriate rating. Some of the lab testing pedantry that goes on with structural engineers is completely ridiculous. Yeah a F3 disappeared an entire subdivision and the ground underneath it. Please.
 
Messages
346
Location
Lenexa, KS
Goessel is such an unknown that I refrain from judgement. Who knows? There could've been insane damage but it's lost to time. Jarrell was an F5 and a half. It blows my mind that anyone could possibly think F3 was the appropriate rating. Some of the lab testing pedantry that goes on with structural engineers is completely ridiculous. Yeah a F3 disappeared an entire subdivision and the ground underneath it. Please.
I know the Jarrell, TX tornado stayed over the Double Creek subdivision for like 3 or 4 minutes. The Harper, Kansas tornado stayed over the same area for over 5 minutes and caused Jarrell esque damage. I think it may have been the longer duration of the Harper, Kansas tornado over the same area that may have led to a high-end F4 rating instead of F5.
 
Messages
346
Location
Lenexa, KS
Goessel is such an unknown that I refrain from judgement. Who knows? There could've been insane damage but it's lost to time. Jarrell was an F5 and a half. It blows my mind that anyone could possibly think F3 was the appropriate rating. Some of the lab testing pedantry that goes on with structural engineers is completely ridiculous. Yeah a F3 disappeared an entire subdivision and the ground underneath it. Please.
I know the Westminster, TX was slower moving and produced among some of the most incredible ground scouring I have ever seen. It was rated a high-end F3 but should have been rated high-end F4 based on a number of things.
 

warneagle

Member
Messages
2,047
Location
Arlington, VA
Special Affiliations
SKYWARN® Volunteer
I know the Jarrell, TX tornado stayed over the Double Creek subdivision for like 3 or 4 minutes. The Harper, Kansas tornado stayed over the same area for over 5 minutes and caused Jarrell esque damage. I think it may have been the longer duration of the Harper, Kansas tornado over the same area that may have led to a high-end F4 rating instead of F5.
I might buy that reasoning if the ratings were tied to empirically-confirmed wind speeds rather than estimates, since you could actually come to more concrete (no pun intended) conclusions about how much time a tornado would have to remain over an area to cause a certain category of damage. But when it's all estimated anyway, that seems arbitrary to me.
 
Messages
482
Location
Madison, WI
I might buy that reasoning if the ratings were tied to empirically-confirmed wind speeds rather than estimates, since you could actually come to more concrete (no pun intended) conclusions about how much time a tornado would have to remain over an area to cause a certain category of damage. But when it's all estimated anyway, that seems arbitrary to me.
Exactly. Not sure where in the descriptions of the F or EF-scales it said you're supposed to adjust for tornado motion speed/time spent doing the damage. Jarrell and Smithville were at opposite ends of the forward speed spectrum yet both did some of the most violent damage ever surveyed, leading me to believe they had to be exceptionally intense regardless of speed.
 

Peter Griffin

Member
Messages
62
Location
Newport, NC
What are your guys thoughts on the Rainsville EF5 of 4/27/11? Seems to be less talked about than Smithville, Hackleburg, and Philidelphia at least from what I've seen.

Isn't Rainsville the one that ripped up an 800lbs safe that was bolted in concrete and tossed it?

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