• Welcome to TalkWeather!
    We would love for you to become a part of our community.
    Take a moment to look around and join the discussion.
    CLICK HERE TO JOIN TALKWEATHER

pohnpei

Member
Messages
485
Reaction score
827
Location
shanghai
Well that certainly makes the Greensburg tornado damage higher than marginal EF5.
Yes, I never buy the idea that Greensburg was marginal EF5. At least Rainsville was much marginal than that.
The reason was:
1 peak intensity likely reached south side of town with significant scouring and 4 well built EF5 rating houses swept clean with trees totally debarked.
2 Tim Marshall mentioned that the high school in town was the strongest he ever seen and almost got EF5 rating itself. We know how many tornados he surveyed and how many violent and EF5 tornados came across school in the past.
3 Theoretically, giving the same wind speed, It's harder for tornados with big RMW do same level damage with small one, especially structure damage. Greensburg still holds the widest EF4 path since EF scale began.
4 Now we know this tornado capable of bent railway and throw cambine and harvest around.
So It was at least not a marginal one to me.

scouring south side of the town.
E4CSElkVgAI_hZX.jpeg E4CRi8MUUAQpXuU (1).jpeg
Another fire hydrant damage, not like the former one, this one likely not simply knock down by debris.
E0lKqKcXsAYNM5P.png
high school damage
image-15.jpg image-16.jpg
 
Last edited:

buckeye05

Member
Messages
1,353
Reaction score
1,543
Location
Riverside, Ohio
Some damage photos from the Greensburg KS EF5 which I don't think they had ever been published by someone else, mostly in rural areas.I cannot confirm whether these photos are belongs to the south of the town or to the north of the town.
View attachment 10715 View attachment 10716 View attachment 10717 View attachment 10718
10737_68619994476532f2b66c1437419de3ba.jpg

View attachment 10720 View attachment 10721 View attachment 10722
One more mangled car.
View attachment 10723
That second picture though. Truly violent looking ground scouring and tree damage there. Reminds me a bit of El Reno 2011.
 

eric11

Member
Messages
197
Reaction score
426
Location
Shanghai,China
Special Affiliations
  1. SKYWARN® Volunteer
  2. ARRL Member
That second picture though. Truly violent looking ground scouring and tree damage there. Reminds me a bit of El Reno 2011.
Exactly, these hardwood tree damage in rural area truly pointed Greensburg into an at least high end EF4.Also note what seems to be a completely mangled car in the last pic.
IMG_20211116_114113.jpg IMG_20211116_115531.jpg
The tornado actually completely swept away the top floor of the Greensburg high school, which might be one important factor to make Tim Marshall convinced it was the strongest high school damage he'd ever seen
mmexport1637036764136.jpg 5d59f8542160782d.jpg
 

buckeye05

Member
Messages
1,353
Reaction score
1,543
Location
Riverside, Ohio
One thing that always strikes me as incredible about Greensburg is how multiple survivors reported a momentary lull after the first side of the tornado hit, followed by a second wave of violent winds. This implies there was a large “eye” type feature inside the center of the circulation. This is also is somewhat noticeable in the Joplin gas station video.
 

pohnpei

Member
Messages
485
Reaction score
827
Location
shanghai
The original location of the transmission tower that pulled out from the foundation by Bowdle tornado 2010. It actually throw over a hill.
The transmission tower damage made by Bowdle was of exceptional rare for this DI. I don't know the exact weight of this tower, but the average weight of transmission tower would be around 15t.
It's worthy mentioned that the Inner Mongolia tornado July 1 this year likely didn't pull this tower out of the foundation.

tornado-damage-2010-bowdle-sd-highlight.jpg
a mangled boat
tornado-damage-2010-bowdle-sd-boat.jpg
 

Attachments

  • tornado-damage-2010-bowdle-sd-highlight.jpg
    tornado-damage-2010-bowdle-sd-highlight.jpg
    118.7 KB · Views: 0
  • tornado-damage-2010-bowdle-sd-boat.jpg
    tornado-damage-2010-bowdle-sd-boat.jpg
    134.3 KB · Views: 0
Messages
1,219
Reaction score
1,472
Location
Missouri
It looks like the amount of debris left/on near the foundation would mitigate an EF5 rating unless the home was "exceptionally" well-constructed. I do however note what looks like debris granulation near the foreground, and if it is, it's some of the most incredible debris granulation I have ever seen.
There's also the possibility that the debris on/near the foundation was from another home or building nearby, or at least some of it was from another home. Chickasha and Goldsby were both EF5 candidates that day, and I still think they both should've received an EF5 rating.
 

TH2002

Member
Messages
893
Reaction score
806
Location
California, United States
Special Affiliations
  1. SKYWARN® Volunteer
There's also the possibility that the debris on/near the foundation was from another home or building nearby, or at least some of it was from another home. Chickasha and Goldsby were both EF5 candidates that day, and I still think they both should've received an EF5 rating.
I suppose it's possible because Tim Marshall rated some homes in Moore that had debris left on the foundations as EF5. Apparently the debris was from another building.
It also proves (I know it has been mentioned MANY times in this thread) that "debris impacts" being used to keep Vilonia from receiving an EF5 rating is pure bull***t.

And back to Chickasha and Goldsby, I am 100% confident both of those tornadoes should have been rated EF5, but Goldsby was the more "obvious" one that swept away numerous properly anchored homes.

edit: Also found a higher resolution version of the second photo I posted. It is likely the same "plausible EF5" home.
Chickasha-damage-foundation-slab.JPG
 
Messages
904
Reaction score
652
Location
Madison, WI
Last edited:

buckeye05

Member
Messages
1,353
Reaction score
1,543
Location
Riverside, Ohio
I think Tim Marshall himself has reconsidered the rating, as I watched a power point presentation earlier this year where he referred to the Chickasha/Blanchard tornado damage as EF5, particularly at the dome home iirc. I’m at work so I can’t dig it up, but I’m sure someone else has the link.
 

ARCC

Member
Messages
456
Reaction score
235
Location
Coosa county
Yes, I never buy the idea that Greensburg was marginal EF5. At least Rainsville was much marginal than that.
The reason was:
1 peak intensity likely reached south side of town with significant scouring and 4 well built EF5 rating houses swept clean with trees totally debarked.
2 Tim Marshall mentioned that the high school in town was the strongest he ever seen and almost got EF5 rating itself. We know how many tornados he surveyed and how many violent and EF5 tornados came across school in the past.
3 Theoretically, giving the same wind speed, It's harder for tornados with big RMW do same level damage with small one, especially structure damage. Greensburg still holds the widest EF4 path since EF scale began.
4 Now we know this tornado capable of bent railway and throw cambine and harvest around.
So It was at least not a marginal one to me.

scouring south side of the town.
View attachment 10729 View attachment 10730
Another fire hydrant damage, not like the former one, this one likely not simply knock down by debris.
View attachment 10731
high school damage
View attachment 10732 View attachment 10733

Just a note; the Hydrant is absolutely knocked down by debris. Still impressive though.
 
Messages
904
Reaction score
652
Location
Madison, WI
Today is the eighth anniversary of the November 17, 2013 tornado outbreak. Numerous long-track and intense tornadoes raked across mostly Illinois and Indiana, with widespread wind damage extending throughout MI, OH, WV and PA. The most significant was the deadly Washington, IL EF4.

I remember stepping outside to go to work at 3 AM and knowing something was going to happen because the air felt darn near like a tropical rain forest, in Wisconsin, in late November. A few warnings were issued in southern Wisconsin, although we escaped significant impacts. It was the first live severe weather coverage I was involved in here at the local TV station where I work.
 

TH2002

Member
Messages
893
Reaction score
806
Location
California, United States
Special Affiliations
  1. SKYWARN® Volunteer
Damage pictures from the 12/04/83 Oxford, Alabama F3:
58474d401a75e.image.jpg

11673216_1000x.jpg

11673228_1000x.jpg

s-l400.jpg

(I also do not know what the deal is with the inconsistency in the reported death toll from this tornado; sources list every number from two to six.)
 

locomusic01

Member
Messages
552
Reaction score
1,442
Location
Pennsylvania
So I've got a new photo of the Beaver Falls should-have-been-F4, taken as it was approaching the south side of Evans City. The quality is.. not ideal, to put it mildly, but it's the only photo I know of (so far) that was taken when the tornado was at/near peak size and intensity.

qyOo6ge.jpg


I also found out recently that, in addition to ripping up a section of the guardrails along I-79 west of Evans City, it also scoured a section of asphalt from Rt. 8 a few miles east of town. Someone had mentioned it before but I didn't really put much stock in it until two other people confirmed it.

And I finally got some good photos from the Tidioute F3, which is another tornado that's been weirdly hard to find much on even by 5/31/85 standards. Here are a couple:

WDrILdA.jpg


Acm6TWV.jpg


ISc0UOH.jpg
 

Austin Dawg

Member
2021 Supporter
Messages
300
Reaction score
270
Location
Leander, Texas
Searching through my file about Jarrell made me wander near all damage photos were taken between CR307 and Double Creek drive along CR305. But there were additional structure damages along CR396 as I know. Does anyone have pics around that area or did the tornado still maintain EF5 intensity in that area?
View attachment 10711


That was really close to where I now live. Star marks the spot.

Yeah, I think about it when we have a warning but that was an odd storm it was created from

map.jpg

Good 2021 article with photos
 

MNTornadoGuy

Member
Messages
858
Reaction score
1,275
Location
Apple Valley, MN
Damage from the August 14, 2020, Tangara Brazil EF3 tornado. These damage photos are from Vitor Goede who surveyed the damage. Debris was scattered 200 m from the brick house shown in the photo. The surveyor also noted that this tornado was likely violent and the damage swath was a mile wide at some points. Two boys were in the house when the tornado struck and was thrown 50 meters but only had minor injuries.
IMG-20200816-WA0128.jpeg

IMG-20200816-WA0089.jpeg

IMG-20200816-WA0136.jpeg

IMG-20200816-WA0137.jpeg

IMG-20200816-WA0072.jpeg
 

locomusic01

Member
Messages
552
Reaction score
1,442
Location
Pennsylvania
As we've talked about a bunch of times before, the area that gets the most attention after a tornado isn't necessarily the area that was actually hit hardest. I've always wondered whether that was the case with the Albion F4, and now it appears so. Albion itself received virtually all of the attention, to the extent that you'd almost think it touched down at one edge of town and dissipated at the other. That's not surprising, of course, since it's where the majority of the fatalities occurred. And to be fair, there was definitely widespread and significant damage there as well.

But everything I've found so far leads me to believe that the tornado peaked earlier in its path and was already beginning to weaken slightly by the time it reached Albion. I talked to a man who witnessed the tornado's formation just across the Ohio state line in Ashtabula County and he said it was a fairly large cone tornado from the moment it touched down, and it began to grow pretty quickly from there. I also found a woman whose trailer, as far as I can tell, was the first structure hit by the tornado. It blew it apart and scattered it a few hundred yards.

Anyway, the tornado was 300-ish yards wide through Ashtabula, but it exploded shortly after crossing into the northwest corner of Crawford County, PA (which usually isn't even included). It leveled two frame homes and tossed a flatbed trailer ~500 yards as it rapidly grew to just over a half-mile in width. It seems to have shrunk slightly after that, but it also did arguably its most violent damage. It obliterated a couple of farmhouses and trailers, mangled several vehicles and tractors, tore heavy farm equipment to pieces and produced some surprisingly high-end vegetation damage. It also claimed its first two lives in this area, although they're usually counted under Albion.

I don't wanna post everything just yet, but here are a few photos. Unfortunately not the best quality. One woman was sucked out of this car and killed. Also some pretty pronounced scouring in the background:

h1E0Oii.jpg


A trailer frame twisted and wrapped around a tree that's about as debarked as debarked gets:

6r3RCaF.jpg


A tractor that basically had its rear end ripped out:

6axOT7N.jpg


A savings book from one of the properties here was carried 50 miles and lighter paper debris was later found as far away as the north shore of Canandaigua Lake - 175 miles to the northeast.

Edit: Forgot to add that a bunch of people who saw the tornado in this earlier part of the path described what sounds like multiple large, highly visible subvortices. It honestly sounds pretty wild. There was a Skywarn spotter who used a video camera attached to a tower to spot the tornado and make the first reported sighting; I'd love to know whether he recorded it on tape and whether that tape still exists, but unfortunately he passed away several years ago.
 
Last edited:
Messages
1,219
Reaction score
1,472
Location
Missouri
As we've talked about a bunch of times before, the area that gets the most attention after a tornado isn't necessarily the area that was actually hit hardest. I've always wondered whether that was the case with the Albion F4, and now it appears so. Albion itself received virtually all of the attention, to the extent that you'd almost think it touched down at one edge of town and dissipated at the other. That's not surprising, of course, since it's where the majority of the fatalities occurred. And to be fair, there was definitely widespread and significant damage there as well.

But everything I've found so far leads me to believe that the tornado peaked earlier in its path and was already beginning to weaken slightly by the time it reached Albion. I talked to a man who witnessed the tornado's formation just across the Ohio state line in Ashtabula County and he said it was a fairly large cone tornado from the moment it touched down, and it began to grow pretty quickly from there. I also found a woman whose trailer, as far as I can tell, was the first structure hit by the tornado. It blew it apart and scattered it a few hundred yards.

Anyway, the tornado was 300-ish yards wide through Ashtabula, but it exploded shortly after crossing into the northwest corner of Crawford County, PA (which usually isn't even included). It leveled two frame homes and tossed a flatbed trailer ~500 yards as it rapidly grew to just over a half-mile in width. It seems to have shrunk slightly after that, but it also did arguably its most violent damage. It obliterated a couple of farmhouses and trailers, mangled several vehicles and tractors, tore heavy farm equipment to pieces and produced some surprisingly high-end vegetation damage. It also claimed its first two lives in this area, although they're usually counted under Albion.

I don't wanna post everything just yet, but here are a few photos. Unfortunately not the best quality. One woman was sucked out of this car and killed. Also some pretty pronounced scouring in the background:

h1E0Oii.jpg


A trailer frame twisted and wrapped around a tree that's about as debarked as debarked gets:

6r3RCaF.jpg


A tractor that basically had its rear end ripped out:

6axOT7N.jpg


A savings book from one of the properties here was carried 50 miles and lighter paper debris was later found as far away as the north shore of Canandaigua Lake - 175 miles to the northeast.

Edit: Forgot to add that a bunch of people who saw the tornado in this earlier part of the path described what sounds like multiple large, highly visible subvortices. It honestly sounds pretty wild. There was a Skywarn spotter who used a video camera attached to a tower to spot the tornado and make the first reported sighting; I'd love to know whether he recorded it on tape and whether that tape still exists, but unfortunately he passed away several years ago.

Really impressive what you keep digging up about this outbreak! It sounds like lots of the tornadoes from this day were of the narrow but violent variety.
 

locomusic01

Member
Messages
552
Reaction score
1,442
Location
Pennsylvania
Really impressive what you keep digging up about this outbreak! It sounds like lots of the tornadoes from this day were of the narrow but violent variety.
Yeah, a lot of them were quite narrow, but then there's also Moshannon (up to 2.5 miles), Elimsport (1.5 miles), Tionesta (1.25 miles), Atlantic/Kane/Corry (all ~1 mile), etc. Pretty fascinating range. Albion was up to about half a mile at maximum, more like three-tenths of a mile in the area I mentioned and only 200-300 yards through Albion itself (with the worst damage being more like 50-75 yards).
 

Users who are viewing this thread

  • buckeye05
  • P
  • Robinson lee
1-800-PetMeds
Top