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warneagle

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I agree with you. They also gave an F5 rating to a tornado from 1800. Trees were reportedly completely debarked and homes destroyed but that's it.
Yeah, those two are naturally interesting to me since they were in Germany, but I think the basis for assigning "official" ratings to storms from the 18th century is questionable at best. I'll make sure to share my translation of Genzmer's report once it's done; even if it's not a great basis for an official rating, it's one of the first scientific surveys of tornado damage.
 

pohnpei

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https://www.tornadotalk.com/overvie...st-huntland-al-tn-tornadoes-of-april-27-2011/
TornadoTalk just uploaded an article that contains an overview of the Hackleburg tornado, apparently it was two seperate tornadoes
The 103mile path seems reasonable to me which makes it the third longest path tornado on that day. But there was a post on another thread mentioned that Cordova was also likely two sperate tornado which makes Enterprise tornado the longest path on that day. But who knows whether Enterprise also quickly lifted in its path. It's hard to know If a tornado was entirely continues without full aerial damage shoto along entire path and aerial shoto just take a much more important role in damage survey pretty recently.
It seems that the pics below was the last section of the real Hackleburg torndao's path.
QQ截图20200124134817.jpg
QQ截图20200124135053.jpg
It appears that this is the same auother who wrote the Smithville acticle.
 
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Robinson lee

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I think I found the 1987 damage of Keshan tornado. Yes, a large number of brick houses were flattened, some agricultural machinery was thrown far away and dismantled, and some trees were completely peeled
 

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zvl5316

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I think I found the 1987 damage of Keshan tornado. Yes, a large number of brick houses were flattened, some agricultural machinery was thrown far away and dismantled, and some trees were completely peeled
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Some more figures of that violent tornado, including the clear photo and some simple radar. Other accounts describled that Keshan tornado levelled some well-built brick houses including warehouse and clubhouse of that farm. The most unrealistic records includes three combines were twisted and dismantled together and a 3-ton oil tank was blown to 15km away (no joke). However, detailed figures about these extreme dectruction is still not found. It was one of the historic tornado outbreak in northeast China and at least 11 tornadoes were reported that day. The number might be much higher since reports might count a whole tornado family as one tornado. Another F4+ tornado leveled a whole village in a nearby county.
 
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MNTornadoGuy

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Some more figures of that violent tornado, including the clear photo and some simple radar. It was the historic tornado outbreak in northeast China and at least 11 tornadoes were reported that day. The number might be much higher since reports might count a whole tornado family as one tornado. Another F4+ tornado leveled a whole village in a nearby county.
What is the largest tornado outbreak in Chinese history?
 

Robinson lee

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What is the largest tornado outbreak in Chinese history?
China's records are relatively incomplete. If we only discuss the intensity and quantity, I think this tornado outbreak is the largest tornado outbreak in China. In addition, a tornado outbreak in Zhejiang on March 26, 1967 may also have many tornadoes. It is said that one tornado pulled up a power tower, while another tornado destroyed a large number of houses in a village House.
 

speedbump305

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There were some pics showed subfloor ripped of the foundation in Washington like this one below.(upper right corner)

I agree that there was a possibility that Washington was one of the strongest tornados but still, lack of high end vehicle damage high end debarking and scouring at the same time in the town lower my confidence.
It is the fact that many violent tornados in this area like Niles 85 or Henryville 12 also didn't produce high end debarking. Neither of them had severe scouring or high end vehicle damage either. It is also true that fast moving tornados are less likely to make high end vehicle damage and trees in this place was harder to debark. BUT, there were fast moving tornados made violent vehicle damage yet most of us still didn't regard it as EF5 tornado like Beauregard. There were tornados completely debark trees in OH alley yet still many people didn't see it as EF5 level tornado like Roanoke(with intense vehicle damage and scouring at the same time). So Washington 2013 tornado was an EF5 level tornado just beacuse the amount of questionable houses it swept away and the amount of debris it granulated is uncertain to me.I can think of a tons of EF4 rating even some EF2-3 rating tornados can make serious debris granulation.just not same amount of Washington made beacuse they didn't hit so many houses.
View attachment 8647
I personally will have to disagree with you. In washington, there were actually quite a lot of “ Plausible EF5 “ damage indicators. the Debarking of Trees was widespread and i know it could have been done by debris, shrubs trees and bushes were all debarked in washington. Cars were mangled and thrown, but not like some of the famous Vehicle damage EF5s. but granulation, wind rowing, and completely swept away homes were extremely evident. and i have seen some with su flooring being ripped. forgot where i found the images but i did see them. but anyway i feel like Very high end EF4 was the right call because i saw barely any scouring so EF4 was the correct call, but it was very borderline
 

speedbump305

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There were some pics showed subfloor ripped of the foundation in Washington like this one below.(upper right corner)

I agree that there was a possibility that Washington was one of the strongest tornados but still, lack of high end vehicle damage high end debarking and scouring at the same time in the town lower my confidence.
It is the fact that many violent tornados in this area like Niles 85 or Henryville 12 also didn't produce high end debarking. Neither of them had severe scouring or high end vehicle damage either. It is also true that fast moving tornados are less likely to make high end vehicle damage and trees in this place was harder to debark. BUT, there were fast moving tornados made violent vehicle damage yet most of us still didn't regard it as EF5 tornado like Beauregard. There were tornados completely debark trees in OH alley yet still many people didn't see it as EF5 level tornado like Roanoke(with intense vehicle damage and scouring at the same time). So Washington 2013 tornado was an EF5 level tornado just beacuse the amount of questionable houses it swept away and the amount of debris it granulated is uncertain to me.I can think of a tons of EF4 rating even some EF2-3 rating tornados can make serious debris granulation.just not same amount of Washington made beacuse they didn't hit so many houses.
View attachment 8647
I personally will have to disagree with you. In washington, there were actually quite a lot of “ Plausible EF5 “ damage indicators. the Debarking of Trees was widespread and i know it could have been done by debris, shrubs trees and bushes were all debarked in washington. Cars were mangled and thrown, but not like some of the famous Vehicle damage EF5s. but granulation, wind rowing, and completely swept away homes were extremely evident. and i have seen some with su flooring being ripped. forgot where i found the images but i did see them. but anyway i feel like Very high end EF4 was the right call because i saw barely any scouring so EF4 was the correct call, but it was very borderline
 

pohnpei

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I personally will have to disagree with you. In washington, there were actually quite a lot of “ Plausible EF5 “ damage indicators. the Debarking of Trees was widespread and i know it could have been done by debris, shrubs trees and bushes were all debarked in washington. Cars were mangled and thrown, but not like some of the famous Vehicle damage EF5s. but granulation, wind rowing, and completely swept away homes were extremely evident. and i have seen some with su flooring being ripped. forgot where i found the images but i did see them. but anyway i feel like Very high end EF4 was the right call because i saw barely any scouring so EF4 was the correct call, but it was very borderline
The question I have mainly about two points: the first one was lack of very impressive contexual damage in the town, especially compared to those famous EF5 level tornados and even some EF4 level tornados. The second one was I havent seen close ground view showing appropriate anchor bolts yet, including several houses with subfloor being ripped. There is a possibility some of them may had anchor bolts but just I couldn't find pics showing these construction details.

The granulation of Washinton was very impressive indeed. So it is just a matter of everyone's different criterion problem. These two tornados below also had impressive debris granulation but the houses they destroyed all mobile homes. Cars were tossed and trees were debarked for both tornado though not completely debarked or tossed long distance. So does the debris granulation level of a mobile house and a well anchored residence have some difference? Though I really didn't have enough information about the house constrution in Washington yet.
Those are Camila GA F3 2000 and Murray County GA EF2 tornado 2000
4Y5VIBEUJNCSDLIPXWUGCGGIF4.jpgQQ图片20210413222304.jpg
 

Marshal79344

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The question I have mainly about two points: the first one was lack of very impressive contexual damage in the town, especially compared to those famous EF5 level tornados and even some EF4 level tornados. The second one was I havent seen close ground view showing appropriate anchor bolts yet, including several houses with subfloor being ripped. There is a possibility some of them may had anchor bolts but just I couldn't find pics showing these construction details.

The granulation of Washinton was very impressive indeed. So it is just a matter of everyone's different criterion problem. These two tornados below also had impressive debris granulation but the houses they destroyed all mobile homes. Cars were tossed and trees were debarked for both tornado though not completely debarked or tossed long distance. So does the debris granulation level of a mobile house and a well anchored residence have some difference? Though I really didn't have enough information about the house constrution in Washington yet.
Those are Camila GA F3 2000 and Murray County GA EF2 tornado 2000
View attachment 8757View attachment 8758
Mobile homes tend to be much weaker, and are much more susceptible to being destroyed and granulated than regular homes. However, there are some photos that I have come across which depict high-end tornado damage from both cases.

The Camilla Tornado produced some debarking of trees and produced very significant damage to frame homes that were outside of the tornado's main wrath. The mobile homes were granulated into small pieces, comparable to those seen from Andover.

20000214CAMILLA5.jpg

The Sumac Tornado (as I call it) produced significant tree debarking to softwoods in a rural area, which further supports evidence of EF3 intensity, and possibly higher. It's quite unfortunate that the tornado had to be generated by the type of parent supercell that produced it, which gave the NWS low confidence in the presence of a tornado.

20200412SUMAC.png
 
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https://www.tornadotalk.com/overvie...st-huntland-al-tn-tornadoes-of-april-27-2011/
TornadoTalk just uploaded an article that contains an overview of the Hackleburg tornado, apparently it was two seperate tornadoes
That article was interesting, it does make me wonder about quite few other VLT tornadoes of the past couple decades (Yazoo City, MS 2010 and Clinton, AR 2008) and some of the other VLTs from 4//27/11 (Cordova, Enterprise and Shoal Creek) and if they were really a single tornado or actually parts of a family of wedges that were cycled quickly in succession, one after the other. Of course, it might be hard to tell when one tornado ends and the other begins, especially if over remote and/or inaccessible terrain or if going through rural areas with very few people to witness anything.
If this stuff about Hackleburg is fully confirmed by other sources or experts, I wonder how long until it gets updated by NWS or Grazulis in his new book.
 

ARCC

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That article was interesting, it does make me wonder about quite few other VLT tornadoes of the past couple decades (Yazoo City, MS 2010 and Clinton, AR 2008) and some of the other VLTs from 4//27/11 (Cordova, Enterprise and Shoal Creek) and if they were really a single tornado or actually parts of a family of wedges that were cycled quickly in succession, one after the other. Of course, it might be hard to tell when one tornado ends and the other begins, especially if over remote and/or inaccessible terrain or if going through rural areas with very few people to witness anything.
If this stuff about Hackleburg is fully confirmed by other sources or experts, I wonder how long until it gets updated by NWS or Grazulis in his new book.
I’ve often wondered about that for years. The NWS Huntsville Survey says this:

“The tornado weakened or may have lifted very briefly across northeast Madison County before strengthening again as it entered Franklin County Tennessee.”

They also have a long stretch of EF0 damage. I always figured that the whole meso may have been on the ground and caused intermittent weak damage based on the track info, but have found the NWS survey interesting.
 

Equus

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The evening Cordova tornado probably did quickly cycle as per chaser reports. Brian Peters was on it and noted that it looked as though the first dissipated and a second quickly developed and began immediately intensifying right as the cell crossed I-22; the survey noted only low end EF0 threshold level tree damage along the interstate where the cycle would have taken place in an otherwise strong to violent path so this certainly seems possible. While that could just be a phase of its clear multiple vortex life cycle, the very low end damage there in the in-between and the fact it was Brian Peters (former WCM at BMX) suggesting it lends credence to it
 
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I came across this page on the NSSL site probably 15 years ago or more, and it still exists (although I think at a different URL, and some of the image links are broken although none on the 5/3/99 page I'm linking to). It still makes for a very interesting reread every now and then although the technology they are analyzing is somewhat outdated (who needs a tornado detection algorithm when you have the dual-pol CC product?).


I would love to see a storm-by-storm radar analysis of 4/27/11 the way they did this one for 5/3/99. Has anyone done anything like that?
 
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The path length and fatality/injury discrepancies mentioned in that Tornado Talk article on Hackleburg are eye-opening and a little disturbing. It seems that while not nearly as enigmatic as the events of old, statistics and documentation for modern tornado outbreaks are still not as accurate and consistent as we'd like them to be.
 

MNTornadoGuy

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I came across this page on the NSSL site probably 15 years ago or more, and it still exists (although I think at a different URL, and some of the image links are broken although none on the 5/3/99 page I'm linking to). It still makes for a very interesting reread every now and then although the technology they are analyzing is somewhat outdated (who needs a tornado detection algorithm when you have the dual-pol CC product?).


I would love to see a storm-by-storm radar analysis of 4/27/11 the way they did this one for 5/3/99. Has anyone done anything like that?

https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journals/bams/95/7/bams-d-11-00229.1.xml
Closest thing I can think of to that
 
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