Severe Weather Threat 5/19-5/22/2024

[Casuarina Head]

Not sure what you mean because Greenfield definitely hit numerous trees, and I've seen one single tree that is 90% to 100% debarked. A lot of the debarking I am seeing in Greenfield is undoubtedly severe (60% to 70%), but not what I would call "complete". When you look at photos of Joplin and Moore, it's almost hard to find a pic that doesn't have multiple trees with complete or near-complete debarking. Not the case in Greenfield.

Yes forward speed is something that needs to be considered, but Joplin and Moore both objectively produced vegetation damage that was much more intense than Greenfield, and that isn't really debatable.

...not to mention the fact that several of the EF5s on 27 Apr 2011 were moving almost as fast as Greenfield yet produced far worse DIs on all levels, from scouring to granulation and debarking. Even some older, fast-moving events like Guin produced at least as severe debarking to about as many trees.

Overall I’ll put the Greenfield tornado in the same rank as Basefield/Soso and Rolling Fork.

Didn’t Bassfield produce similar or even more extreme damage to more trees/vegetation over a wider area, along with more severe/extensive scouring?

 

[jiharris0220]

First photo shows and engine from a vehicle that has never been found, and there was a second one too that went missing, something we haven’t seen since 1999 Moore on the top of my head, though there could’ve been more recent examples.

Second photo shows a completely debarked small branch embedded into a small motor vehicle.

The third and last photo shows the classic, dreadful plastering of mud and granulation that is present in only the most upper echelon of tornadoes.

 

[Maxis_s]

Just in case some of you guys have forgotten how truly horrifically violent matador was, as in Moore 2013 levels of violence, I now show you these pictures.

First two show deep/wide ground scouring, something I haven’t seen since vilonia.

Second two shows total annihilation of all trees, (a lot of them mesquite trees by the way) and continued ground scoring.

My jaw dropped even though I’ve seen the following 6 photos before already. Never has there been such extreme mutilation of vehicles all across the path of a tornado since 2016.

Part one

First photo shows and engine from a vehicle that has never been found, and there was a second one too that went missing, something we haven’t seen since 1999 Moore on the top of my head, though there could’ve been more recent examples.

Second photo shows a completely debarked small branch embedded into a small motor vehicle.

The third and last photo shows the classic, dreadful plastering of mud and granulation that is present in only the most upper echelon of tornadoes.

I'll say it again. Matador's survey was absolutely horrendous and it was robbed of a legitimate survey.

 

[Tempestas Tonitrua]

I'll say it again. Matador's survey was absolutely horrendous and it was robbed of a legitimate survey.

Yeah…it’s proximity to TTU and their wind and structural engineering department who are notoriously conservative really did Matador in.

 

[slenker]

New member here, first post. I used to think Matador was a very overrated tornado in terms of how people talked about it (still underrated by NWS, just a lower end EF4) until I saw these pictures. Those are absolutely insane and changed my mind pretty damn quickly.

On the topic of the thread though, Greenfield is still a legitimate EF5 candidate in my eyes despite the concerns with it, but I definitely expect a 190 MPH EF4 out of it. The sheer number of slabbed homes and exposed basements in Greenfield is pretty gnarly- there's a good chance at least one of them is well-built enough to justify the rating (I am no engineer though.)

Also, didn't the Niles-Wheatland F5 do similar levels of tree damage to this? That had a similar structure and had a fast ground speed as well, with pretty incredible damage to homes. I feel like that could set a precedent here.

 

[Shakespeare 2016]

New member here, first post. I used to think Matador was a very overrated tornado in terms of how people talked about it (still underrated by NWS, just a lower end EF4) until I saw these pictures. Those are absolutely insane and changed my mind pretty damn quickly.

On the topic of the thread though, Greenfield is still a legitimate EF5 candidate in my eyes despite the concerns with it, but I definitely expect a 190 MPH EF4 out of it. The sheer number of slabbed homes and exposed basements in Greenfield is pretty gnarly- there's a good chance at least one of them is well-built enough to justify the rating (I am no engineer though.)

Also, didn't the Niles-Wheatland F5 do similar levels of tree damage to this? That had a similar structure and had a fast ground speed as well, with pretty incredible damage to homes. I feel like that could set a precedent here.

Vehicle damage may be redundant to NWS damage surveyors but I would have rated every vehicle that was so mangled beyond recognition a high-end EF4 in Matador.

 

[TH2002]

And why are you even mad when mister buckeye is doing the exact same thing? Stating "This is not high end ef4 damage"

I think he's referring to the fact that the pictures he posted on page 53 somehow went right over your head...

I speak my mind in my own way and people throw a fit. This isn't nwschat its a public forum free for anybody to use. What the heck is y'alls problem? I'm not even being strictly offensive to anyone. You all keep saying that ef-ratings don't matter yet you continue to talk about them.

For one, I don't think anyone you're replying to said EF ratings don't matter.

And conversely, you said it yourself. TW is a public forum. You have the right to speak your mind as much as anyone else, but if you don't know what you're talking about, expect to be called out for it. I've been there too, and it's fine. Take a deep breath and move on.

 

[notsoencrypted]

First photo shows and engine from a vehicle that has never been found, and there was a second one too that went missing, something we haven’t seen since 1999 Moore on the top of my head, though there could’ve been more recent examples.

Second photo shows a completely debarked small branch embedded into a small motor vehicle.

The third and last photo shows the classic, dreadful plastering of mud and granulation that is present in only the most upper echelon of tornadoes.

Wait, what storm are these photos from? Your immediately previous post is images from Matador, right? Are these, as well?

Can I request that we not post photos from different storms in specific storm threads? I know it's not a rule, but if people post photos from various other storms in a specific storm's thread, it makes it hard to know what is damage from this specific storm and what's not. If you want to compare to Matador, maybe post a link to a post in the Matador thread with those photos instead of directly posting the images here? Apologies if I'm out of line with this, it just feels very confusing to have images from previous tornadoes in a thread for a specific (and different) event.

Also, if we want to hash out ratings of previous storms, there's a separate thread for that?

 

[slenker]

Also, if we want to hash out ratings of previous storms, there's a separate thread for that?

I’m new here, is it always better to discuss damage in the EF scale thread? Or in the event thread of which it occurred?

 

[jiharris0220]

Wait, what storm are these photos from? Your immediately previous post is images from Matador, right? Are these, as well?

Can I request that we not post photos from different storms in specific storm threads? I know it's not a rule, but if people post photos from various other storms in a specific storm's thread, it makes it hard to know what is damage from this specific storm and what's not. If you want to compare to Matador, maybe post a link to a post in the Matador thread with those photos instead of directly posting the images here? Apologies if I'm out of line with this, it just feels very confusing to have images from previous tornadoes in a thread for a specific (and different) event.

Also, if we want to hash out ratings of previous storms, there's a separate thread for that?

These are all pictures from the matador thread, I don’t see any harm in one time posting previous tornadoes from a different thread if it’s for reference purposes.

It’s much better to just showcase the photos to save people the time of fishing through a whole thread.

Though I guess it all comes down to personal preferences.

 

[notsoencrypted]

I’m new here, is it always better to discuss damage in the EF scale thread? Or in the event thread of which it occurred?

There's no rule about where's best, but I think damage relating to a specific storm (so in this thread, damage from Greenfield and other stuff during the title dates) is totally fine! It's just bringing in unrelated images that's confusing, IMHO. But again, just another user whose opinion is no more important than any other user's on that, and now I've gotten us all off-track, sorry!

 

[SouthFLwx]

Greenfield EF4 175-185

 

[Equus]

PNS link for that

IEM :: PNS from NWS DMX

PNS issued by NWS DMX at 23 May 2024 20:58 UTC

mesonet.agron.iastate.edu

 

[jiharris0220]

 

[TH2002]

Just came across this footage. Not sure which tornado this is (maybe the one near Villisca?) but it's pretty incredible:

 

[Maxis_s]

Reasonable preliminary survey. I expect that rating to be bumped up or at least be finalized as the upper bound preliminary estimate.

 

[Sawmaster]

Given the damage, the DOW numbers, and the contextual evidence seen only in stronger storms it clearly needs uprating. .

 

[SouthFLwx]

Reasonable preliminary survey. I expect that rating to be bumped up or at least be finalized as the upper bound preliminary estimate.

These wind speed ranges seem to be a new thing that the NWS is doing (which I like), so the max wind speed as of now is 185 mph. It’s possible that they slightly bump this up in the final estimate, but I don’t think it will be rated an EF5.

 

[Tempestas Tonitrua]

you just know the weenies are converging on NWS Des Moines’ twitter

 

[Clancy]

you just know the weenies are converging on NWS Des Moines’ twitter

Yeah I'm pretty sure I can smell it from here.