Enhanced Fujita Ratings Debate Thread

[slenker]

I know I said I want to get off this website for today but I forgot about this. "This particular tidbit of info has always irked me a bit but it’s hard to say that it didn’t go from EF0 to EF5 intensity extremely quickly. The 6 seconds number is probably erroneous, but you can see in damage imagery that it did go from EF0 to likely EF5 intensity definitely within 15 seconds based on this image alone:" I feel like its longer than 15 seconds since I'm pretty sure Smithville touched down before the forest, somewhere slightly east of the canal

I think there’s a misinterpretation of my point here - I never said that the tornado touched down and went from EF0 to EF5, I’m saying that it already touched down, moved to the east for a bit fluctuating in intensity, then went from EF0 to EF5 after said fluctuations. If anyone claims that 6 seconds after touchdown Smithville was an EF5, that’s just flat out incorrect, and it’s a misrepresentation of the tornado’s behavior. Perhaps I should’ve been more clear on my end.

 

[GrenadinesDes]

I think there’s a misinterpretation of my point here - I never said that the tornado touched down and went from EF0 to EF5, I’m saying that it already touched down, moved to the east for a bit fluctuating in intensity, then went from EF0 to EF5 after said fluctuations. If anyone claims that 6 seconds after touchdown Smithville was an EF5, that’s just flat out incorrect, and it’s a misrepresentation of the tornado’s behavior.

Oh I didn't mean to misinterpret, my bad, but yeah, 6 seconds is wrong

 

[Tokai.Ryu]

Oh I didn't mean to misinterpret, my bad, but yeah, 6 seconds is wrong

Likewise, Smithville strengthening at 6 seconds is heavily mythologized anyway, it was doing EF0-EF1 damage at the time, it only strengthened further minutes after. Most of smithville's feats were mostly weaker construction quality homes anyway.

 

[ColdFront]

Likewise, Smithville strengthening at 6 seconds is heavily mythologized anyway, it was doing EF0-EF1 damage at the time, it only strengthened further minutes after. Most of smithville's feats were mostly weaker construction quality homes anyway.

Did you not read the previous rebuttals to this kind of ridiculous “weaker construction” post??

Who the hell are these random accounts all saying the same thing? This is word for word what @GrenadinesDes said yesterday. At this point, I think this site is being brigaded. Or this is his sock puppet account and he inadvertently revealed it.

 

[Tokai.Ryu]

Did you not read the previous rebuttals to this kind of ridiculous “weaker construction” post??

Who the hell are these random accounts all saying the same thing? This is word for word what @GrenadinesDes said yesterday. At this point, I think this site is being brigaded. Or this is his sock puppet account and he inadvertently revealed it.

Oh, forgot to add context, my fault, but yes, some homes about smithville were of great quality, but most of them were basically just exaggerated in quality, most of them are EF4 180-200MPH if I remember, not >200MPH. I'm not here for arguing anyway, the mythologizing on smithville is just what pisses me off. At best, most of smithville's homes were either EXP or UB. I doubt atleast alot of them were UB. I've seen the post, and it can be easily debunked by just putting research.

And in anyway, Im not even related to grenadinedes, I only just got here to see photos n stuff.

 

[ColdFront]

Oh, forgot to add context, my fault, but yes, some homes about smithville were of great quality, but most of them were basically just exaggerated in quality, most of them are EF4 180-200MPH if I remember, not >200MPH. I'm not here for arguing anyway, the mythologizing on smithville is just what pisses me off. At best, most of smithville's homes were either EXP or UB. I doubt atleast alot of them were UB. I've seen the post, and it can be easily debunked by just putting research.

And in anyway, Im not even related to grenadinedes, I only just got here to see photos n stuff.

Then show us your research. Or is this another classic case of a user parroting someone else’s analysis but can’t elaborate themselves?

Honestly I feel like this place has gone crazy town. We are arguing with most likely the same person using two different accounts, and can’t even string together a sentence properly.

 

[Tokai.Ryu]

Then show us your research. Or is this another classic case of a user parroting someone else’s analysis but can’t elaborate themselves?

Honestly I feel like this place has gone crazy town. We are arguing with most likely the same person using two different accounts, and can’t even string together a sentence properly.

I'm not the same person, I'm actually just being reasonable, considering this thread is mostly filled with just smithville this smithville that, and sure, I'll find the stuff about smithville. I haven't done smithville in a long time so expect it to be inaccurate, or false.

 

[ColdFront]

I'm not the same person, I'm actually just being reasonable, considering this thread is mostly filled with just smithville this smithville that, and sure, I'll find the stuff about smithville. I haven't done smithville in a long time so expect it to be inaccurate, or false.

Then why the hell would you even say anything?? Knuckle dragger wasn’t harsh enough in my opinion.

Honestly, I know I said yesterday you shouldn’t be banned, but I was wrong. You’re switching back and forth between two accounts and spouting BS just to get this forum in an uproar.

 

[Tokai.Ryu]

Then why the hell would you even say anything?? Knuckle dragger wasn’t harsh enough in my opinion.

Honestly, I know I said yesterday you shouldn’t be banned, but I was wrong. You’re switching back and forth between two accounts and spouting BS just to get this forum in an uproar.

I'm not even the same account? I just got here, but I only said some stuff due to the fact that some parts of smithville (the intensifying within 6 seconds part) is being said, which they are myths indeed so without evidence.

But anywho, heres some stuff I found already, Smithville's funeral home was made of brick veneer, and it wasn't anchored basically. E.E Pickle home is pretty well exaggerated, but once you look more into it, you'd see major flaws, heres the wood frames that were windrowed away from E.E. Pickle Home.I wouldn't say much about E.E Pickle home, because most EF5 DIs today are brick veneer, we don't know much about E.E Pickle home other than that its just made of brick veneer and it wasn't anchored/properly nailed. It's one of the few areas that are being mythologized for strength.

As for the few homes, I've found the EF5 DIs, seems to me they are extremely well built and pretty solid for their rating.
In these aerials, you could also see some of the EF4 DIs that were slabbed, which they were said to be "solid EF5", but they were improperly nailed, About 5-6 of them to be exact were actually solid EF5. Properly nailed, anchored, and everything.
I wouldn't say this is jarrell level, but its definitely upper echelon.
I may be downplaying smithville much, but I wouldn't say it's tied with piedmont as the strongest of all time, tri-state and new richmond exist.
A few of smithville's feats were very great, but I wouldn't say its at jarrell's level in damage, nor is it stronger than tornadoes like M13.
In anyway, its also likely that smithville's homes were hit by debris impacts.
Structurally, smithville isn't even close, its the contextuals and speed that warrant it a great spot, not its structural, most of them had flaws or hit by debris, even improperly nailed.
About the post, that was talking about smithville's solid EF5 DIs, which were excellently well built in any way possible, not the entire town, if it was talking about the entire town, then all of smithville's EF4 DIs would've became EF5, no?
Anywho, I really do not want to argue right now, would be a waste, especially since I'm being called someone's alt.

 

[SweptSlab5]

Oh my goodness I came hear to escape the argument on the other thread and it’s happening here to!

 

[Tokai.Ryu]

Oh my goodness I came hear to escape the argument on the other thread and it’s happening here to!

Nope, its just debating about stuff related to smithville's construction quality. You'll be fine.

 

[SweptSlab5]

Nope, its just debating about stuff related to smithville's construction quality. You'll be fine.

Oh okay good. The other thread was averaging a post every 1-2 minutes for an hour and 1/2. I personally put smithville at number 1 on my list, but that’s just me. Especially because it had very little time to do such damage but it did. The granulation of the brick of the funeral home into a red slurry on the foundation slab was extremely impressive.

 

[Central Ohio Wx]

Then why the hell would you even say anything?? Knuckle dragger wasn’t harsh enough in my opinion.

Honestly, I know I said yesterday you shouldn’t be banned, but I was wrong. You’re switching back and forth between two accounts and spouting BS just to get this forum in an uproar.

Unfounded and completely inappropriate sockpuppetry allegations are certainly something. If you're going to accuse someone of sockpuppeting, at the very least back it up with a shred of evidence that isn't "well, they disagree with my opinion, so they must automatically be the same person!" It makes you look bad (and it's not the first time I've observed this attitude towards newcomers).

To clarify I'm not one of their "sockpuppets" or whatever, I'm just going on the defense because the attitudes towards them are absolutely insane over such a simple disagreement.

 

[SweptSlab5]

Unfounded and completely inappropriate sockpuppetry allegations are certainly something.

What is going on right now. I just wanna talk about smithville in peace.

 

[Tokai.Ryu]

Oh okay good. The other thread was averaging a post every 1-2 minutes for an hour and 1/2. I personally put smithville at number 1 on my list, but that’s just me. Especially because it had very little time to do such damage but it did. The granulation of the brick of the funeral home into a red slurry on the foundation slab was extremely impressive.

The granulation is very impressive, but the only part that makes it not impressive now is that E.E Pickle Home was actually made of Brick Veneer and Wood frames, as seen in the photos i've sent. It was just windrowed. The other structures/homes it hit are very impressive though that's the thing.

 

[Central Ohio Wx]

Oh okay good. The other thread was averaging a post every 1-2 minutes for an hour and 1/2. I personally put smithville at number 1 on my list, but that’s just me. Especially because it had very little time to do such damage but it did. The granulation of the brick of the funeral home into a red slurry on the foundation slab was extremely impressive.

It wasn't brick (it was wood with brick veneer) and wasn't completely granulated, just windrowed to the east. This was what I was going to argue before people immediately got into a massive insultfest.

 

[SweptSlab5]

It wasn't brick (it was wood with brick veneer) and wasn't completely granulated, just windrowed to the east. This was what I was going to argue before people immediately got into a massive insultfest.

“Brick house” in the us means brick veneer, unless you are talking about colonial era homes. What I’m pointing to here is the complete pulverized state of the bricks. They were GONE, they were shaped into lines on the foundation slab by the winds.

 

[Tokai.Ryu]

It wasn't brick (it was wood with brick veneer) and wasn't completely granulated, just windrowed to the east. This was what I was going to argue before people immediately got into a massive insultfest.

Mhm. This is very correct, The argument was really getting harsh, so I just didn't bother arguing until the very end of it where people can be reasonable, it would just be even more harsh if I arrived at the time.

 

[slenker]

The image I posted previously makes a case for Smithville going from EF0-5 in at least 6 seconds based on the size of its core and the forward speed. If you want to claim that Smithville didn’t do that in 6 seconds and that is erroneous, that’s fine and honestly I do think it took longer than 6 seconds (it’s probably more believable to me that it took around 10). But at the same time you can’t say it took minutes - that’s a completely wrong take, objectively. The image I posted clearly shows tornado damage going from EF0-weak EF1 transitioning to extreme gouging/trenching coincident with grass scouring that hit a steady state afterwards. Directly after hitting this steady-state, it inflicted EF5 damage, full-stop. I’m pretty sure that the official NWS damage contours also highlight the trench as the beginning of the EF5 path, and it’s very believable for that to be the case.

And again, if you want to make the argument that Smithville wasn’t that impressive structurally (which I haven’t seen any sources of, only people repeating this statement) the contextuals are very difficult to deny for being some of the most violent ever seen, and it’s absolutely comparable to any of the tornadoes you mentioned as being “certified stronger.” The grass scouring is impossible to deny and it’s clearly some of the most violent we’ve ever seen. Smithville checks every single box you can think of when it comes to inflicting EF5 level damage.

Debris impacts argument is very silly. I suppose every single high end tornado that went through a semi-populated area should have a consideration to be looked at in a lower light because of this. Did debris play a role? Yes, but is it solely responsible for the extraordinarily consistent streak of grass ripping that began outside of town? Is it solely responsible for the historically violent forestry damage that occurred after the granulated funeral home? Is it responsible for the extremely upper-echelon vehicle damage? Probably not. And if you’re going to say that, that’s highly dismissive of this tornado’s power.

Again it’s all subjective, so if you believe Jarrell or Loyal Valley or Bridge Creek is stronger, then that’s a completely fine take because those are the highest end events you can get. But the fact of the matter is that Smithville certifiably deserves to be mentioned alongside those monsters, with zero doubt in my mind.

 

[Tokai.Ryu]

“Brick house” in the us means brick veneer, unless you are talking about colonial era homes.

Brick veneer and actual brick masonry have differences, veneer is a singular layer, but actual masonry is pretty much just more than one layer, they were also used in current times if I remember, typically for structures like schools, as seen with Plaza Towers.