Enhanced Fujita Ratings Debate Thread

[KCweatherboy]

The 10% hatched tornado threat today in July in Illinois made me look up Plainfield, and tbh based on today's track record of rating tornadoes it would probably end up as a high-end EF3. The F5 rating was based on extreme ground scouring and a tractor-trailer being thrown 1150ft, which I think is fully valid. Imagine using contextual damage and meteorological information to rate a meteorological event...

 

[TH2002]

The 10% hatched tornado threat today in July in Illinois made me look up Plainfield, and tbh based on today's track record of rating tornadoes it would probably end up as a high-end EF3. The F5 rating was based on extreme ground scouring and a tractor-trailer being thrown 1150ft, which I think is fully valid. Imagine using contextual damage and meteorological information to rate a meteorological event...

The rating was based on scouring in a corn field which is a bit questionable to say the least. I agree with the F5 rating because it caused vehicle damage and debarking consistent with some of the highest-end tornadoes and swept away a few anchor-bolted homes, but then again pretty much all violent tornadoes outside of DGX and DMX’s survey areas would get a HE EF3 rating these days. Low end EF4 is about as strong as they come now.

 

[KCweatherboy]

The rating was based on scouring in a corn field which is a bit questionable to say the least. I agree with the F5 rating because it caused vehicle damage and debarking consistent with some of the highest-end tornadoes and swept away a few anchor-bolted homes, but then again pretty much all violent tornadoes outside of DGX and DMX’s survey areas would get a HE EF3 rating these days. Low end EF4 is about as strong as they come now.

Yes I agree and that's the key, the damage lines up with other highest-end tornadoes, and the tornado was therefore rated as such. This is how things should work imo.

and yes I was being a bit of a smarta** in my initial post, but I just wanted to highlight again how bad Matador was.

 

[pohnpei]

The 10% hatched tornado threat today in July in Illinois made me look up Plainfield, and tbh based on today's track record of rating tornadoes it would probably end up as a high-end EF3. The F5 rating was based on extreme ground scouring and a tractor-trailer being thrown 1150ft, which I think is fully valid. Imagine using contextual damage and meteorological information to rate a meteorological event...

Also wind speed wise, it was rated ＞260mph at that time and probably near 170mph nowadays. That's a huge difference. I don't know what's actual wind it contains and it may not be as high as 260mph. But I'm pretty sure thay the actual wind would be much more closer to 260mph rather than 170mph realistically.

 

[JBishopwx]

Not sure where to post this, but from Tim Marshall.

Join our Cloud HD Video Meeting

Zoom is the leader in modern enterprise video communications, with an easy, reliable cloud platform for video and audio conferencing, chat, and webinars across mobile, desktop, and room systems. Zoom Rooms is the original software-based conference room solution used around the world in board...

us02web.zoom.us

pwd=NIV1cTIzcXltQVdFdWRMcIBBTjBGQTO9
Meeting ID: 88069356197
Passcode: amsnwameet

 

[tornado examiner]

Hopefully it actually does lead to more consistently accurate ratings

 

[Tomcats Forever!]

Not sure where to post this, but from Tim Marshall.

Join our Cloud HD Video Meeting

Zoom is the leader in modern enterprise video communications, with an easy, reliable cloud platform for video and audio conferencing, chat, and webinars across mobile, desktop, and room systems. Zoom Rooms is the original software-based conference room solution used around the world in board...

us02web.zoom.us

pwd=NIV1cTIzcXltQVdFdWRMcIBBTjBGQTO9
Meeting ID: 88069356197
Passcode: amsnwameetView attachment 21679

Was anybody able to watch?

 

[UK_EF4]

Was anybody able to watch?

Yeah, here are some of the things summarised:

-Final draft expected within the next 2 years.
-30 DIs (for now) - including vehicles (This stuff was already known)
-Incremental wind speed increases between DoDs with wind speeds now round to nearest 5mph (as opposed to 1mph on the old scale)

For wood framed residences:

DoD 10 has EXP 200mph, LB 160mph, UB 240mph - though this DI might be subject to change
-On that subject, LB,EXP and UB are now renamed to "weaker than typical resistance, normal, and stronger than typical resistance". Stronger than typical includes things like hurricane clips, closer anchor bolt spacing, reinforced gable ends.

Also some discussion about the EF5 debate:

Said that Jarrell, Joplin, Moore are "the 5s" and that to be rated a 5 they should be comparable to those tornadoes. Also mentioned how Mayfield had a fast dwell speed which meant buildings couldn't be fully destroyed (which obviously wasn't the case everywhere, e.g: Bremen), and that construction in Rural KY is not up to standard (which is certainly true).

That's about everything I can remember, other people may be able to contribute more.

 

[Tomcats Forever!]

Yeah, here are some of the things summarised:

-Final draft expected within the next 2 years.
-30 DIs (for now) - including vehicles (This stuff was already known)
-Incremental wind speed increases between DoDs with wind speeds now round to nearest 5mph (as opposed to 1mph on the old scale)

For wood framed residences:

DoD 10 has EXP 200mph, LB 160mph, UB 240mph - though this DI might be subject to change
-On that subject, LB,EXP and UB are now renamed to "weaker than typical resistance, normal, and stronger than typical resistance". Stronger than typical includes things like hurricane clips, closer anchor bolt spacing, reinforced gable ends.

Also some discussion about the EF5 debate:

Said that Jarrell, Joplin, Moore are "the 5s" and that to be rated a 5 they should be comparable to those tornadoes. Also mentioned how Mayfield had a fast dwell speed which meant buildings couldn't be fully destroyed (which obviously wasn't the case everywhere, e.g: Bremen), and that construction in Rural KY is not up to standard (which is certainly true).

That's about everything I can remember, other people may be able to contribute more.

At least it souns like he doesn't buy into those bunk studies about Jarrell and Joplin.

 

[CheeselandSkies]

I noticed he mentioned Mayfield but carefully avoided bringing up Vilonia.

 

[tornado examiner]

I noticed he mentioned Mayfield but carefully avoided bringing up Vilonia.

Hiiiighly sus…

 

[notsoencrypted]

Hiiiighly sus…

Might just be that Vilonia is now almost 10 years ago, whereas Mayfield is much more recent and thus is more well-known in the public, especially with the factory collapse being a significant news item for quite a while.

Or that he had limited time and there's not something as quick to state/explain as it was for Mayfield. Or simply didn't want to open additional cans of worms. There's lots of reasons to not discuss something that still could be relevant, and while it can be frustrating, it doesn't make it necessarily suspect.