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Discussion of April 27, 2011 Outbreak

Drove back and forth down the stretch of 75 between Atlanta and Macon this week while I was visiting my parents and the scar from the Barnesville tornado is still very obvious. I'm on board with the idea that it was probably stronger than EF3.
 
I was researching 4/27/11 earlier and had a very curious thought. How did SPC forecasters at the office feel that day watching a upper echelon outbreak. All the chaos, the ABC 33/40 footage of Tuscaloosa, the outbreak didn't really end until 3am or so with intense tornado production. As a result, i decided to ask Broyles what he felt like watching the outbreak unfold and how the offices felt in general. Wowzers.
 

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WeathermanLeprechaun said:
I was researching 4/27/11 earlier and had a very curious thought. How did SPC forecasters at the office feel that day watching an upper echelon outbreak. All the chaos, the ABC 33/40 footage of Tuscaloosa, the outbreak didn't really end until 3am or so with intense tornado production. As a result, i decided to ask Broyles what he felt like watching the outbreak unfold and how the offices felt in general. Wowzers.
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Oh thansk for sharing, also your name is Kevin too? :D
 
WeathermanLeprechaun said:
Indeed so, seems like there's a lot of weather Kevins on this forum
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home alone kevin GIF by Sky
 
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going thru 4/27/11 via scwx, (supercell wx) and pardon my french but da **** was the day on, like 80% of the polygons state either large and extremely dangerous tornado or this is a tornado emergency followed by large and extremely dangerous tornado.... nature i'd like to *NEVER* track something like this in my life time,, just reading about its is enough.
 
Cyclonic Paracosm said:
if I recall, 4/27/11 holds the record for most tor-es during a single 24hr period/outbreak
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NWS HUN actually made the decision pre-outbreak that they were only going to issue TOR warnings for the event per former MIC Chris Darden. I feel like all the offices that day (BMX, HUN, JAN) were justified in the liberal usage of the TOR-E. Seems MEG didn’t get the memo though..
 
ColdFront said:
NWS HUN actually made the decision pre-outbreak that they were only going to issue TOR warnings for the event per former MIC Chris Darden. I feel like all the offices that day (BMX, HUN, JAN) were justified in the liberal usage of the TOR-E. Seems MEG didn’t get the memo though..
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I mean...the "tornado emergency" wording was pretty much intended specifically for confirmed large, long-tracked, likely violent tornadoes, and just about every tornado on 4/27/11 fit that bill.

That outbreak was a major catalyst for efforts to standardize the product and incorporate it into the broader spectrum of impact-based warnings. However I feel there is still some confusion (both among the public, and among different NWS offices themselves) on what, for example, the difference is or should be between a "PDS tornado warning" and a "tornado emergency."
 
Yeah. The Smithville tornado should have been given a Tornado Emergency. I've heard excuses well, it formed too fast for them to issue a TORE. I don't believe that for one moment especially given you had a tornado warning that confirmed the tornado in progress. And look I know that Smithville wasn't a huge city like Memphis or Birmingham. I sometimes can't help but wonder if TORE are more geared towards population weighted towns/cities because Amory is much bigger than Smithville population wise and Tupelo's population is bigger than both. The 2023 Amory tornado was the first ever issuance of a Tornado Emergency for Monroe County.
 
Here's the link to the Monroe County Tornado Warning leading up to and just after the tornado hit Smithville. Interesting. All 4 updates to the Tornado Warning never mentioned the town of Smithville. I just now noticed that.
mesonet.agron.iastate.edu

KMEG Tornado Warning #125

Chickasaw, Lee, Itawamba, Monroe
mesonet.agron.iastate.edu mesonet.agron.iastate.edu
 
JPWX said:
Yeah. The Smithville tornado should have been given a Tornado Emergency. I've heard excuses well, it formed too fast for them to issue a TORE. I don't believe that for one moment especially given you had a tornado warning that confirmed the tornado in progress. And look I know that Smithville wasn't a huge city like Memphis or Birmingham. I sometimes can't help but wonder if TORE are more geared towards population weighted towns/cities because Amory is much bigger than Smithville population wise and Tupelo's population is bigger than both. The 2023 Amory tornado was the first ever issuance of a Tornado Emergency for Monroe County.
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tbf Columbus AFBs radar at the time was really bad compared to most of the surrounding radars and even that had a gnarly reflec debris ball after town, I think I have a screenshot somewhere
 
JPWX said:
Yeah. The Smithville tornado should have been given a Tornado Emergency. I've heard excuses well, it formed too fast for them to issue a TORE. I don't believe that for one moment especially given you had a tornado warning that confirmed the tornado in progress. And look I know that Smithville wasn't a huge city like Memphis or Birmingham. I sometimes can't help but wonder if TORE are more geared towards population weighted towns/cities because Amory is much bigger than Smithville population wise and Tupelo's population is bigger than both. The 2023 Amory tornado was the first ever issuance of a Tornado Emergency for Monroe County.
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The NWS criteria has actually been changed and population is not a factor in TOREs. Plevna is a major example of this, a town with less than 200 people got a TORE.

BUT in 2011, the criteria was probably a extremely violent, catastrophic tornado heading towards a large town.

This is gonna be a slightly interesting take, but i really do think TOREs are overused now and that they simply don't feel as urgent as they mightve 10 years ago. My true definition of a TORE is a very high end tornado heading toward a town/city and is likely to go on course for a direct hit.

I'm not dismissing EF3s in terms of strength, but i do not think they hold the weight to warrant a TORE. The very first TORE was for a historically violent tornado that met high end criteria. High end criteria like HE EF4+ in my opinion warrants a TORE.

2024 had a lot of TOREs and some of those were EF2/EF3 tornadoes. I will agree that it's tough to tell what a tornado's exact intensity is in real time and if we go by that criteria, it's gonna be tough to perfectly demonstrate a verification rate of a 190+ tornado.

They held some sort of forbidden dread to them back then in the 2010s when issued and you knew that the situation was truly dire and it was a tornado that would probably be talked about for months, years. Now, in my opinion, TOREs just feel more like the potential of a EF3+ tornado barreling down into a populated area.

That's why I'm hoping as we properly resolve areas to improve on identifying tornado intensity more accurately, that the old TORE criteria should return.

4/27/11 verified every TORE it had because every one of them were high end, violent tornadoes. That's my thoughts on the TORE criteria
 
WeathermanLeprechaun said:
The NWS criteria has actually been changed and population is not a factor in TOREs. Plevna is a major example of this, a town with less than 200 people got a TORE.

BUT in 2011, the criteria was probably a extremely violent, catastrophic tornado heading towards a large town.

This is gonna be a slightly interesting take, but i really do think TOREs are overused now and that they simply don't feel as urgent as they mightve 10 years ago. My true definition of a TORE is a very high end tornado heading toward a town/city and is likely to go on course for a direct hit.

I'm not dismissing EF3s in terms of strength, but i do not think they hold the weight to warrant a TORE. The very first TORE was for a historically violent tornado that met high end criteria. High end criteria like HE EF4+ in my opinion warrants a TORE.

2024 had a lot of TOREs and some of those were EF2/EF3 tornadoes. I will agree that it's tough to tell what a tornado's exact intensity is in real time and if we go by that criteria, it's gonna be tough to perfectly demonstrate a verification rate of a 190+ tornado.

They held some sort of forbidden dread to them back then in the 2010s when issued and you knew that the situation was truly dire and it was a tornado that would probably be talked about for months, years. Now, in my opinion, TOREs just feel more like the potential of a EF3+ tornado barreling down into a populated area.

That's why I'm hoping as we properly resolve areas to improve on identifying tornado intensity more accurately, that the old TORE criteria should return.

4/27/11 verified every TORE it had because every one of them were high end, violent tornadoes. That's my thoughts on the TORE criteria
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Adding on to this, i feel like some sort of high end PDS designation would be perfect for tornadoes of LIKELY EF3 intensity. They demonstrate the potential for a extremely dangerous, life threatening situation. This would be confusing to pull off though and that's a big red herring to that idea in particular.
 
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