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Alabama General Election for Senate

Matt said:
That's fair criticism. that was my first reaction and I still think the dems and Mitch are in this together to some degree. The dem playbook over the years has been to bring up some outlandish charge at the last minute and put a Republican on the defensive. I've seen it for decades. So, it is not a stretch to think, "here we go again".
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So your first reaction was to automatically disbelieve and every story told thereafter has been met with the same reaction - to disbelieve - find fault with the storyteller, medium, or some hidden boogeyman. In this case it is McConnell. With absolutely zero proof, you are convinced he is spearheading a campaign of sexual abuse against Roy Moore. And yet, you demand proof from these women before you'll believe them. No matter how credible their accounts are. No matter how many people come forward to say they are telling the truth. But a conspiracy theory, you're all in? It's not even logical. In fact, it's completely illogical. This country has become so divided into left/right that everything comes down to f***g politics. Instead of looking for ridiculous conspiracy theories why don't you look into Moore's ridiculous "I don't remember if I ever dated a teenager" remark. Look at his statements objectively. Because that statement is also completely illogical. A thirty-two year old man would remember if he dated a teenage girl for Pete's sake. He's lying. If he's lying about that, he's probably lying about much more. But what's that matter when a senate seat is up for grabs.
 
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Jacob said:
Much like last year's election, a decent candidate could've beaten Trump. But the dems put up Hillary.

Similarly, a decent candidate could probably beat Moore. Instead, we're stuck choosing between Moore and Jones.

I'll probably just go into work that day and not even deal with voting.
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Same. I have given up on this election. It is hard for me to even entertain the thought of voting for either. The flaws in morality and character are gaping holes for these two. Not gonna waste my time to even drive to the poll to write in someone either.
 
Arcadia said:
So your first reaction was to automatically disbelieve and every story told thereafter has been met with the same reaction - to disbelieve - find fault with the storyteller, medium, or some hidden boogeyman. In this case it is McConnell. With absolutely zero proof, you are convinced he is spearheading a campaign of sexual abuse against Roy Moore. And yet, you demand proof from these women before you'll believe them. No matter how credible their accounts are. No matter how many people come forward to say they are telling the truth. But a conspiracy theory, you're all in? It's not even logical. In fact, it's completely illogical. This country has become so divided into left/right that everything comes down to f***g politics. Instead of looking for ridiculous conspiracy theories why don't you look into Moore's ridiculous "I don't remember if I ever dated a teenager" remark. Look at his statements objectively. Because that statement is also completely illogical. A thirty-two year old man would remember if he dated a teenage girl for Pete's sake. He's lying. If he's lying about that, he's probably lying about much more. But what's that matter when a senate seat is up for grabs.
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No, my first reaction was to think it highly probable that the democrats or establishment republicans or both would pull a stunt such as this. It has happened before. Do you remember what Karl Rove and McConnell and did to Chris McDaniel in Mississippi a few years ago ? I stated that I am not a supporter of Moore and have no idea if he is guilty or not. Neither do you unless you were there. Had McConnell kept his money maker out of Alabama politics, Moore quite possibly would be an after thought at this point.
 
I was told Trump's decades of support for abortion (and donations to Planned Parenthood) didn't matter because Hillary was so bad.
Matt said:
No, my first reaction was to think it highly probable that the democrats or establishment republicans or both would pull a stunt such as this. It has happened before. Do you remember what Karl Rove and McConnell and did to Chris McDaniel in Mississippi a few years ago ? I stated that I am not a supporter of Moore and have no idea if he is guilty or not. Neither do you unless you were there. Had McConnell kept his money maker out of Alabama politics, Moore quite possibly would be an after thought at this point.
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You have no idea if he's guilty? That's BS. We ALL have an idea of whether or not he's guilty, and we aren't in court, so an extremely high burden of proof isn't required.

By Moore's own account, he started checking out his wife when she was just 15 or 16 years old. That's not normal behavior. There are multiple accusers. And they told family members and friends long ago. How did all those people get convinced to lie about a very powerful man? A man that has extremely dedicated and belligerent supporters throughout the state? A childhood friend you haven't seen in 20 years, or an ex-boyfriend don't quite seem like the kind of people that want to risk backlash from the media, Moore, or his supporters.

That's the problem with conspiracies. They require us to believe that dozens of people are intentionally lying, and that they have some hidden motive that none of us can figure out. It makes no sense.

I reject the argument that we have no idea if Moore is guilty. We have a very very STRONG idea of his guilt.

Even then, I'm a fair person. I've weighed each accuser and accusation individually, but also considered the overall weight of evidence. Something is funny about the yearbook. It seems POSSIBLE that someone other than Roy Moore added the date and Olde Hickory House. An expert has reviewed the yearbook, and says he doesn't have any reason to doubt the signature and that he doesn't see any clear signs of forgery. But, like all experts in this area, he can't make any firm conclusions without the original document and more evidence. That said, I totally believe that Moore signed the yearbook. I believe he tried to assault the girl. I also think it's possible that someone else added the date or the name of the restaurant. Ironically, that wouldn't change anything at all about Moore's guilt or the evidence. I believe the reason Moore has focused on the yearbook is because he remembers signing it and his note. But, he doesn't remember dating it or putting the name of the restaurant.

Nonetheless, that doesn't make the yearbook a forgery. All the BS that Moore is trying to sell is absolutely insane. He has only focused on one single part of the evidence provided by one single accuser. He has ZERO answers for the other accusers, or his own comments about his wife.

The idea that McConnell is behind the accusations is even crazier. If McConnell had evidence he'd have used it during the primary. It was actually a fairly close primary, and it likely would have mortally wounded Moore as Brooks was a suitable alternative. Some would've even defected to Strange.

The only reason that Jones is not up 60-40 right now is because of his detestable and abhorrent comments on abortion.

That being said, I've made my peace with voting for Jones. The GOP is hypocritical on abortion. I'd like to see most of them thrown out and replaced with people that are truly pro-Life, dedicated to ending abortion, and committed to bringing about teem-limits.

Moore physically harmed children. Jones is guilty of a thought crime. He has a belief that I find to be repugnant and sick. But he's not an abortion doctor. He's not operating a shuttle service to take people to abortion clinics. There will be no more SCOTUS vacancies unless someone dies. Trump is unlikely to get re-elected. There will not be any legislation on abortion that goes through the Senate and actually changes the status quo. Appellate Court Judges and other Federal Judiciary positions have a limited impact because of the precedence of Roe. I see almost zero possibility that Jones can impact abortion in a way that conflicts with my beliefs.

Jones' thought crime doesn't rise to the actual level of felony child molestation. I also think Moore has the potential to do additional serious damage to institutions in our country, and I think he would be a disaster for our state. I certainly don't trust him to advise and consent on Federal Judges.

I wish everyone could see this for what it is. It isn't about abortion. It's not about tax cuts. It's not about a Conservative agenda or liberal positions that Jones has. There is are only TWO reasons why the White House didn't try to push Moore out. One, Trump has well over a dozen of his own accusations. Trump doesn't mind being a hypocrite, but he doesn't want that story flaming up again. It's bubbling up anyway as we speak. Two, the only thing that may prevent Trump's impeachment and conviction is enough Senators that don't vote to convict. The Dems are going to take the House. They have a better than even shot at taking the Senate. Due to various retirements and the like, Trump's margin of error is low. He needs someone like Moore that will back him 100% of the time.

There were no options to toss Moore out and not anger his supporters. I'll be shocked if Trump doesn't come campaign for Moore. The obvious idea is that Moore can rebound as the story dies down and with Trump applying pressure saying this is a binary choice between abortion/liberalism and tax cuts, pro-Life, etc. Trump is gambling that Moore can eke out a win and at worst get kicked out of the Senate and replaced by a new Ivey appointment.

I'm not going to help Trump & Moore. I believe my position is morally consistent. Others are free to disagree. But voting for Moore is certainly not a moral or ethical option. There's plenty of evidence of his guilt. Even if there wasn't, we all know Moore was already unqualified, and is a loose cannon. He's a hypocrite that fleeced donors to his non-profit to enrich himself and his family.
 
Matt said:
No, my first reaction was to think it highly probable that the democrats or establishment republicans or both would pull a stunt such as this. It has happened before. Do you remember what Karl Rove and McConnell and did to Chris McDaniel in Mississippi a few years ago ? I stated that I am not a supporter of Moore and have no idea if he is guilty or not. Neither do you unless you were there. Had McConnell kept his money maker out of Alabama politics, Moore quite possibly would be an after thought at this point.
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Right. Because it would just be crazy to think that a man like Moore would sexually abuse a young girl. Because, like, that would never happen. Those women must be lying for sure. Naturally, men in authoritative roles would never think to abuse their power or demonstrate creep factor tendencies by stalking young girls in malls and such. As as been reported. Nope. All those people are lying. Only Moore is telling the truth. Persecuted like Jesus. Isn't that what his defenders are saying? Nine women. At least 30 people corroborate their stories. My count is probably a bit low. These women are being treated by the so-called conservative 'Christian' right the way Bill Clinton's accusers were treated by the left. Exactly the same. I bet you believed those women. If you have no idea whether he's guilty or not, then it's because you either don't want to have an idea or your tin foil hat is too tight.
 
This article makes a similar point to my previous post. Reasonable people can disagree about the mortality or propriety of voting for Jones. But, the same cannot be said about voting for Moore. There's just no way to shoehorn a Moore vote into our system of values, morals, and ethics. Someone has to be willfully ignorant or seriously dumb to ignore the implications and evidence.
 
Willfully ignorant or seriously dumb?
Roy Moore may pull this one off...
 
DB1313 said:
This doesn't surprise me. Without naming names, there's more than a few churches in Alabama that turn a blind eye to things like this. They're havens for child abuse.
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The Good Ol' Boy system at its finest.. far too many "Christians" seem to think that if you confess your sins and pray once a week you can do whatever you want and the consequences don't apply to you..
 
Speaking of the moral highground... impersonating a victim of child molestation is about as low as you can go.

Great job by Project Veritas exposing how detailed and strict the Washington Post's journalistic standards are. I mean I knew O'Keefe is a fake, a fraud, and lacks the most basic ethics related journalism, but this is also morally abhorrent.

I think we can put to rest the idea of the Washington Post just randomly staging a hit piece about Moore, paying sources, and "not caring about the truth."

Veritas has performed a very important public service. They exposed the sausage making at WaPo and it's a damn fine sausage and process. I don't want to hear another word about fake news, that the stories about Moore are made up, or that it's the dishonest liberal MSM.

 
Evan.. the problem is that most conservative evangelical Alabamians who are earnest Trump and Moore supporters won't understand what is going on here and think that this fake story was planned by the Jones camp or the Washington establishment Repub camp to try and nail Moore with another victim. They won't see it as the WaPo doing due diligence in researching their sources and stories.
 
ghost said:
Evan.. the problem is that most conservative evangelical Alabamians who are earnest Trump and Moore supporters won't understand what is going on here and think that this fake story was planned by the Jones camp or the Washington establishment Repub camp to try and nail Moore with another victim. They won't see it as the WaPo doing due diligence in researching their sources and stories.
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No, no, no. The fake story was planned by WaPo so they can cleverly claim that they go through the effort to filter our fake news, all while making more fake news! They're attempting to create their own alibi - pure evil genius!
 
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